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The Staff of SOH
I Finally Saw Avatar...
- Thread starter Lionheart
- Start date
T
tigisfat
Guest
People can say whatever they want to about the 'canned' plot, but it was like watching the first movie with sound to me. It was humbling that human beings created such a beautiful work of art.
.
Truth: Had not been in a public movie theater to view a movie since 1984 or so, watching "2010".
Now, in 2010, I went to watch "Avatar" in our fine local movie theater we enjoy here. Fine movie.
Have since driven to Rapid City a few times to watch it again... 4 more times. It only grows on me.
It is a movie one either really likes or dislikes, it seems. For me, was able to see the parallels at once
to our own sordid history here on Earth. My Lakota extended family go on & on about Wounded Knee...
though the Aussies once killed every man, woman & child in Tasmania, or so it is told. Age-old
tales of sorrow: if the stronger want things that the weaker have then the weaker are attempted
to be convinced that they should depart. If the weaker resist then diplomacy is replaced with
harsher & harsher tactics until the weaker leave or are destroyed.
James Cameron has already penned a prequel as well as a sequel. Word is that he's leaning
towards the prequel, though personally I'd like to see the sequel first. You know that the humans
will be back with more numbers, guns & bombs because of the stated value of "Unobtainium". At
that time we have already "killed our Mother", as our hero states in the movie while trying to
reason with the Na'vi.
The humans will return. History brings this out.
.
Truth: Had not been in a public movie theater to view a movie since 1984 or so, watching "2010".
Now, in 2010, I went to watch "Avatar" in our fine local movie theater we enjoy here. Fine movie.
Have since driven to Rapid City a few times to watch it again... 4 more times. It only grows on me.
It is a movie one either really likes or dislikes, it seems. For me, was able to see the parallels at once
to our own sordid history here on Earth. My Lakota extended family go on & on about Wounded Knee...
though the Aussies once killed every man, woman & child in Tasmania, or so it is told. Age-old
tales of sorrow: if the stronger want things that the weaker have then the weaker are attempted
to be convinced that they should depart. If the weaker resist then diplomacy is replaced with
harsher & harsher tactics until the weaker leave or are destroyed.
James Cameron has already penned a prequel as well as a sequel. Word is that he's leaning
towards the prequel, though personally I'd like to see the sequel first. You know that the humans
will be back with more numbers, guns & bombs because of the stated value of "Unobtainium". At
that time we have already "killed our Mother", as our hero states in the movie while trying to
reason with the Na'vi.
The humans will return. History brings this out.
.
T
tigisfat
Guest
I'd like a prequel to have less war and more immersion on the planet.
Snuffy
Happiness Consultant
Me too!
Believe me, I don't feel like I'm missing anything either, so I'm not saddened by the fact that I haven't seen it yet.
I hate CGI. That being said, I was blown away with the special effects. Doesn't look like CGI at all. Really all seemed real. It better for half a billion!
Now, that being said, I thought the story was very weak. Really thinly veiled political plot. Too much crap tided into global warming and how "bad the USA is, as in war.
Just give me a good sci-fi story with out the lecture. Sort of like how they turned a great movie into something really bad when "they" redid The Day the Earth Stood Still.
Finally, with that all being said, I'd still recommend seeing it just for the effects.
BTW: I saw it in 3D.
Now, that being said, I thought the story was very weak. Really thinly veiled political plot. Too much crap tided into global warming and how "bad the USA is, as in war.
Just give me a good sci-fi story with out the lecture. Sort of like how they turned a great movie into something really bad when "they" redid The Day the Earth Stood Still.
Finally, with that all being said, I'd still recommend seeing it just for the effects.
BTW: I saw it in 3D.
Quixoticish
Charter Member
Some kind of exploration of the human condition in the here and now (political commentary, prophesy based on current understandings, extrapolated warnings about the future, social criticism etc) are a vital part of science fiction in the opinion of many who have studied the genre to any degree (myself included). This is what separates it from the fantasy genre and to attempt to produce a piece of science fiction without the aforementioned features would be a huge disservice to all of the sci-fi greats such as H.G. Wells, Philip K. Dick, Jules Verne, Isaac Asimov, Arthur C. Clarke, George Orwell, Orson Welles, Robert A. Heinlein and many more.
Of course whether the political subtext of Avatar worked or was a bit rubbish is a debate for others to partake in (in my opinion it was a bit horribly obvious), however I would argue that to actually be considered science fiction a story must contain some of or something akin to the elements I mentioned earlier in this post. Just having space ships, laser battles, robots and other staples of the genre does not a sci-fi story make.
You mention The Day the Earth Stood Still, that is a prefect example. On a superficial level it is a story about an alien being who comes to Earth and the drama that ensues. But obviously it casts a rather critical eye on the cold war arms race, (the real purpose of the story), and if you delve deeper it is easy to spot the many references that compare the coming of Klaatu to the Christian second coming of Christ.
Science fiction needs these multiple layers; it is only through a careful process of defamiliarisation (hence the atypical sci-fi settings and charachters) that we can really cast a critical gaze at ourselves and hold a mirror up to our own beliefs and principles.
Admittedly I do not like to use the term lecture as it implies something obvious, and subtexts and themes should always require some careful thought on behalf of the reader, listener or viewer, but to summarise, a sci-fi story without the "lecture" isn't sci-fi at all in my opinion, it is simply fantasy.
I apologise for taking the thread somewhat off topic but I am exceedingly passionate about science fiction (both from a scholarly and a personal point of view) and I am always keen to discuss it with other like-minded individuals.
A
Aviator273
Guest
I only watched the movie because I wanted to know why everybody was so upset about the fact, that it didn't get an Oscar but Cameron's ex-wife's 'The Hurt Locker' (in my opinion very great work) did. And I just can't understand these critics. Avatar has some great special effects, that's true, but there's nothing else in it. Compared to The Hurt Locker, it's just some overpaid playground for all the guys who were involved in this movie. They could have made a great story about the conflicts between the two factions (why's the USA always the bad one?) ... but nope, it got to the background and they only focused on the two people falling in love with each other, overrunning the theatrevisitors with their effects... and it seems as if the movie caused a headache because of the partly blurred background in the 3D-show which made the movie even worse.
I didn't like it.
I didn't like it.
K
KOM.Nausicaa
Guest
As someone who has read almost everything in SF is my greatest wish to see Dan Simmons' Hyperion brought to screen. The best SF book of the last 20+ years. It's way to big for a film through - it must minimum be a trilogy, or a mini series.
Quixoticish
Charter Member
It was exactly the same story with Titanic. It could have been such a great story about such an epic event, but instead the event itself was sidelined and it was turned into a love story.
I too would enjoy that, but more to my enjoyment would be a series based on Dame Admiral Honor Harrington's life!
AMEN! (and I hope Bollywood doesn't screw the story up!)I too would enjoy that, but more to my enjoyment would be a series based on Dame Admiral Honor Harrington's life!
Will look into the other series though.
Has anyone read Elizabeth Moon's Pakassarion series. Highly recommended (military fantasy). She has now written another sequel that I'm looking forward to reading.
K
Ken Stallings
Guest
If Cameron had spent the same degree of effort in crafting the script as he did the special effects, he would have created an all time immortal movie classic. Dances with Wolves made its fame on a wonderful script and great acting.
As it is, movies cannot endure by measure of their special effects.
When Star Wars was released in 1977, the special effects were amazing. But it was the original concept and script that added to the movie also. It was fleshed out. It contained not merely special effects, but also an entire theme and concept that was original. Yes, Lucas spent the next four decades taking the concept and maxing it out.
When Peter Jackson's WETA group pioneered many new special effects procedures, it was merely a small aspect of what made the Lord of the Rings trilogy the immortal classic it is seen to be. The script, the crafting, the character development matched and even surpassed the special effects.
What Cameron needed to do, and frankly could have easily done, was craft an original thinking script where no one was a stereotype, but rather a complex meshing of conflict between alien societies where good men on both sides can engage in conflict through misunderstanding. We didn't need the cartoon characters and the all-too-predictable big-business-is-evil rant!
Funny, I guess that big business in Hollywood isn't bad, but all others are, so says Hollywood!
The poetic justice for me, and one of the rare good moments of the Academy Awards, was to see Cameron's ex-wife walk away with the ultimate hardware for her excellent movie, "The Hurt Locker." Then, to see so many of the cast of "Avatar" engage in some dismissive insults to the Academy and "The Hurt Locker" sort of cemented the situation for me.
By the time Star Wars had finished its first three-series run, Lucas had to re-release a significantly upgraded version of Episode I because the then revolutionary special effects no longer supported the movie. But, had it not been for the original script, score, and concepts, no one would have cared nearly long enough to justify the upgrades made on the re-release!
Cameron could have captured that magic, but to my view, he simply wasn't willing to spend the time needed to fully polish all aspects of the movie. He wanted an instant money-maker and he got one. He could have taken more time and made an immortal classic.
Ken
Toastmaker
Charter Member 2016
I agree with Ken's assessment on this one. The movie was unique only because of it's SFX. The complete absence of original story and, as Ken mentioned, the obligatory swipe at big business, was far too common and unremarkable.
Interesting science of cinematography but not much else. . .
Interesting science of cinematography but not much else. . .