Ito San did it again: a Fokker D.XXIII available

John,
Appreciate your comments. It IS overpowered (3850 hp, and thrust=2.0) so it absolutely needed to be toned down. Actually in haste to upload did not set them back. Oh well. What I did not like was that it required +8.0 pitch trim just to fly level. Bogus! Among other things. Next time I'll use a bigger hammer (ha).
Chuck B
Napamule
 
Drzook said:
I gave it a go with Terry's modded FDE. Still a little hot (333 KIAS at 2000')...
Click to expand...

Terry's mods give the D.XXIII some nice handling both on the ground and in the air, but I agree that it's still a bit
hot.
Just floundering around, I have tried some changes to Terry's .cfg that seems closer in the speed department
at a maximum of about 280kts indicated between 2000' to 10,000'. At idle, the throttle must be advanced slightly.
So far I have been unable to find correct starter torque value.


[WEIGHT_AND_BALANCE]
empty_weight=4585//converted from Ferry_vO's data

[piston_engine]
power_scalar=1.15 //reduced slightly.
cylinder_displacement=175.36 //The actual 93.36cu in did not work well.
max_rated_hp=1075.0 //compared to the actual 540hp.
critical_altitude=15000.0 //personal preference. I usually don't fly above this in Golden Wings.
 
Using ACM, I was able to get the flight model lined up with the visual model...meaning the wings are now programmed to be where the wings on the plane actually are...and not 6 feet back. The tail is now where the tail of the plane is, not 10 feet behind the plane. This change really made the Fokker D.XXIII much more flyable.

Here's the new Geometry section:

[airplane_geometry]
//ACM_AREAW1// 0,0,0,3.3018,0.7662,0.7662,0,3.1368,1.5324,1.5324
//ACM_AREAW2// 0,2.9716,2.2987,2.2987,0,2.8066,3.0648,3.0648,0,2.6414
//ACM_AREAW3// 3.8310,3.8310,0,2.4763,4.5974,4.5974,0,2.3113,5.3635,5.3635
//ACM_AREAW4// 0,2.1461,6.1297,6.1297,0,1.9810,6.8961,6.8961,0,1.8159
//ACM_AREAH1// 0,0,0,0.6096,0.1014,0.1014,0,0.5791,0.2030,0.2030
//ACM_AREAH2// 0,0.5486,0.3048,0.3048,0,0.5181,0.4063,0.4063,0,0.4875
//ACM_AREAH3// 0.5080,0.5080,0,0.4571,0.6096,0.6096,0,0.4266,0.7110,0.7110
//ACM_AREAH4// 0,0.3962,0.8126,0.8126,0,0.3657,0.9143,0.9143,0,0.3352
//ACM_AREAV1// 0,0,0,2.6919,0.2991,0.2991,0,2.4765,0.5982,0.5982
//ACM_AREAV2// 0,2.2611,0.8973,0.8973,0,2.0457,1.1964,1.1964,0,1.8305
//ACM_AREAV3// 1.4954,1.4954,0,1.6151,1.7946,1.7946,0,1.3997,2.0936,2.0936
//ACM_AREAV4// 0,1.1843,2.3928,2.3928,0,0.9689,2.6919,2.6919,0,0.7537
//ACM_CAREAW1// 3.4479,3.4479,1.6509,2.3113,3.8310,3.8310,1.6509,2.2783,4.2142,4.2142
//ACM_CAREAW2// 1.6509,2.2453,4.5974,4.5974,1.6509,2.2123,4.9805,4.9805,1.6509,2.1793
//ACM_CAREAW3// 5.3635,5.3635,1.6509,2.1461,5.7466,5.7466,1.6509,2.1131,6.1297,6.1297
//ACM_CAREAW4// 1.6509,2.0801,6.5128,6.5128,1.6509,2.0471,6.8961,6.8961,1.6509,2.0141
//ACM_CAREAH1// 0,0,0.3048,0.6096,0.1014,0.1014,0.3048,0.5942,0.2030,0.2030
//ACM_CAREAH2// 0.3048,0.5791,0.3048,0.3048,0.3048,0.5637,0.4063,0.4063,0.3048,0.5486
//ACM_CAREAH3// 0.5080,0.5080,0.3048,0.5332,0.6096,0.6096,0.3048,0.5181,0.7110,0.7110
//ACM_CAREAH4// 0.3048,0.5029,0.8126,0.8126,0.3048,0.4875,0.9143,0.9143,0.3048,0.4724
//ACM_CAREAV1// 0,0,0.6729,2.0188,0.2991,0.2991,0.6729,1.9112,0.5982,0.5982
//ACM_CAREAV2// 0.6729,1.8035,0.8973,0.8973,0.6729,1.6958,1.1964,1.1964,0.6729,1.5881
//ACM_CAREAV3// 1.4954,1.4954,0.6729,1.4804,1.7946,1.7946,0.6729,1.3727,2.0936,2.0936
//ACM_CAREAV4// 0.6729,1.2652,2.3928,2.3928,0.6729,1.1575,2.6919,2.6919,0.6729,1.0498
wing_area = 414.000000
wing_span = 38.71
wing_root_chord = 7.28
wing_dihedral = 7.98
wing_incidence = 0.999756
wing_twist = 0.000000
oswald_efficiency_factor = 0.776629
wing_winglets_flag = 0
wing_sweep = 0
wing_pos_apex_lon = 8.56
wing_pos_apex_vert = -1.37
htail_area = 70.000000
htail_span = 13.07
htail_pos_lon = -10.53
htail_pos_vert = 2.20
htail_incidence = -0.999756
htail_sweep = 0
vtail_area = 60.000000
vtail_span = 5.51
vtail_sweep = 0
vtail_pos_lon = -9.81
vtail_pos_vert = 0
elevator_area = 14.000000
aileron_area = 22.000000
rudder_area = 12.000000
elevator_up_limit = 26.000825
elevator_down_limit = 26.000825
aileron_up_limit = 21.497376
aileron_down_limit = 20.345731
rudder_limit = 28.997394
elevator_trim_limit = 19.996227
spoiler_limit = 89.954374
aileron_to_spoileron_gain = 0.000000
spoiler_handle_available = 1
min_ailerons_for_spoilerons = 0.000000
min_flaps_for_spoilerons = 0.000000
spoilerons_available = 0
 
Hey OBIO,
Thank you for the geometry changes, handling is much improved.

The following changes from my previous mods of Terry's mods give
the airplane an maximum indicated airspeed of 286 kts (329mph)
at 6000'. Fairly close to the published top speed of 326mph.

[piston_engine]
power_scalar=1.18

[propeller]
thrust_scalar=1.18
 
Terry said:
You cant upload a zip file therefore the use of the TXT extender. Just delete the .TXT then unzip.
Click to expand...

One small tip / request would be to use .bbb or something like that instead of .txt to avoid the issues some W7 / Firefox users have with the added extension.
Depending on the system settings it is nearly impossible to tell Windows that the file is really not a text document. You can change the name....but the extension you really want to get rid off is not
accessible.

Cheers
Stefan
 
Tried the modded FDE file with Terry's as a base, OBIO's geometry and Hurricane 91's detail changes. Not bad. Not bad at all. My only gripe (if you can call it that) is that the acceleration seems a bit...spirited. 0-60 kts in about 4 seconds? I mean, that's supercar territory. Acceleration tapers off dramatically after 200 kts but I'm not sure that a plane that was considered underpowered could get up and at 'em that quick. Maybe we should tweak the weight?
Anyway, a couple of screenies (using that BananaBob 109 prop and default Comet sounds)...
View attachment 67458View attachment 67459
 
Drzook said:
...the acceleration seems a bit...spirited. 0-60 kts in about 4 seconds? I mean, that's supercar territory.
Click to expand...

:icon_lol:
Yes, I noticed that. I will try Terry's .cfg without my changes and see if I can figure out what may be the cause. Please keep
in mind that I do not have a good understanding of FS flight dynamics, just tinker and cross my fingers. But I have fun and
sometimes even learn something (if only I could remember what it was).
 
Hurricane91 said:
:icon_lol:
Yes, I noticed that. I will try Terry's .cfg without my changes and see if I can figure out what may be the cause. Please keep
in mind that I do not have a good understanding of FS flight dynamics, just tinker and cross my fingers. But I have fun and
sometimes even learn something (if only I could remember what it was).
Click to expand...

I thought it a little hot also but the top end seemed about right. I dont really know how to change the bottom end without affecting the top.
For my own use I simply keep the throttle out of the firewall at roll out.

If you have Nicks propwash effects, I added them to the cfg file. Just add this to the last VCOCKPIT header in panel cfg. gauge00=nn-gauges!MultiPropDustFXcontrol.xml, 0,0
 
It looks like I'm not the only one with throttle questions...

I made my FDE files by splicing in the piston engine parameters into the air and config files, then plugging in geometry values that I found that were the same as Ferry's info. I also calculated values for areas and locations based on a 3-view, and determining where Ito's datum is located. Between that and tweaking contact points, I was happy with the result for the most part. BUT....

I also noticed that she bolts out of the gate pretty quickly. I could have sworn that there was a parameter somewhere in the air file that controlled throttle response, which should tame that characteristic down- but I can't find it or remember it.

Also, my best airspeed seems to be down on the deck (yes, I'm watching true airspeed, not indicated). I set the power to deliver an airspeed of about 290 mph at low altitude. At that power setting, my airspeed only falls off as my altitude increases, where I was expecting the airspeed to peak somewhere around its 'service altitude' of approx. 4km. before falling off as I approach the 9.3km ceiling, which somehow I've managed to maintain fairly closely.

I currently don't have supercharging enabled, but at this point I may try it as a workaround to more closely matching the power output at altitude.

Anyone else have any suggestions?

Thanks- Mike
 
mikezola said:
...I currently don't have supercharging enabled, but at this point I may try it as a workaround to more closely matching the power output at altitude...
Click to expand...

From what limited research I did into the Walter Sagitta engine (German Wikipedia) the stats there implied there was at least a single stage supercharger; there was a line that roughly translated to blower ratio (it was around 8:1), so I would say it's a safe bet there was a supercharger on this engine. As for critical altitude I'd put that around 4500 meters (about 14,750 feet) since that was where it was making the most power at the highest altitude which logically would give one the fastest speed.
Hope this helps. :kilroy:
 
Now that makes more sense! I started with a critical altitude of about 14,000 ft, and although I began to get the increased speed at altitude I was looking for, the ceiling was still way too high- even after lowering the critical alt. to 9000 ft. I could still attain a 39,000 ft. ceiling. I'll get it yet...

Thanks for the info! -Mike Z.
 
I think I have it pretty close to the specs- here they are for anyone inclined to try them out...

Besides the performance specs and geometry, contact points and scrape points have been tweaked and augmented- she'll belly-land if need be. I also found out the answer to something I found while looking at paint schemes online- the insignia and number Ito painted on this plane was applied to the prototype in June 1940- previously it had the number 'X-4' instead of the triangles, stripes, and number.

Enjoy! -Mike

View attachment 67500View attachment 67501

Once downloaded, rename the files by deleting the '.txt' from each name...
 
well i've started work on the paintkit for it... starting with X-4 (how the D.XXIII was registered in 1939), colours are being changed to more historically accurate Olijfgroen, Roodbruin and Zandkleurig... i think my fellow Simmers in the NL will understand those colours (though they're easy to understand Olive Green, Red-Brown (Auburn) and Sand Colour) :icon_lol:

still a long way to go but..... here's how she currently sits;
 
:ernae::jump::applause::icon29::medals::guinness::redfire:

Thanks Matt!!


I tried that but for some reason when I download the files there is no .txt extension and it is showing as a text file. I've tried saving it as a .txt file and as 'all files'. What am I doing wrong?
Click to expand...

Same problem here..
 
Thanks Matt!!


I tried that but for some reason when I download the files there is no .txt extension and it is showing as a text file. I've tried saving it as a .txt file and as 'all files'. What am I doing wrong?


Same problem here..
Click to expand...

I have no problems
 
Hmmmm... I just tried downloading them myself and it worked like a charm- for each one, I clicked on it, chose the 'save' option, saved it to a place of my choice, then renamed it without a glitch...

Matt- thanks in advance for the repainting work- I picked up a bunch of swatches and things from Simmers' Paint Shop as I contemplated doing the same thing. I still may use them on Ito's Fokker G.1, as he used pretty much the same colors on it that he used on this work...

-Mike Z.
 
no problem, just getting the groundwork in then i can set about breathing life into it with the weathering... currently panel-lining the wings ready for them to get camouflage... then onto the booms and then i can set about weathering! :jump:
 
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