• There seems to be an uptick in Political comments in recent months. Those of us who are long time members of the site know that Political and Religious content has been banned for years. Nothing has changed. Please leave all political and religious comments out of the forums.

    If you recently joined the forums you were not presented with this restriction in the terms of service. This was due to a conversion error when we went from vBulletin to Xenforo. We have updated our terms of service to reflect these corrections.

    Please note any post refering to a politician will be considered political even if it is intended to be humor. Our experience is these topics have a way of dividing the forums and causing deep resentment among members. It is a poison to the community. We appreciate compliance with the rules.

    The Staff of SOH

  • Server side Maintenance is done. We still have an update to the forum software to run but that one will have to wait for a better time.

JSF to be usurp in Canada ( Yes !!!! )

VaporZ

VaporZ

Charter Member
The next Fighter Competition for Canada is open.
The overcost JSF program will have real competitors

Eurofighter bid include an unconditional transfer to Canada
of the entire technology package including source codes.
An offer JSF will never be able to challenge.

I have even find a name for the Eurofighter bid : "MapleFighter"

Please read this
:jump::applause::jump:
VaporZ


Boeing, Eurofighter bid to usurp F-35 for Canadian fighter deal
<!-- End ArticleHeading -->By Stephen Trimble
<CENTER><SCRIPT language=javascript><!--document.write('<scr'+'ipt language="javascript1.1" src="http://adserver.adtech.de/addyn|3.0|289|1061321|0|277|ADTECH;loc=100;target=_blank;key=key1+key2+key3+key4;grp=[group];misc='+new Date().getTime()+'"></scri'+'pt>');//--></SCRIPT><SCRIPT language=javascript1.1 src="http://adserver.adtech.de/addyn|3.0|289|1061321|0|277|ADTECH;loc=100;target=_blank;key=key1+key2+key3+key4;grp=[group];misc=1243678794046"></SCRIPT><NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT></CENTER>

<!-- /noindex -->Boeing and Eurofighter have launched a public challenge to Lockheed Martin's widely presumed control of a next-generation fighter contract in Canada.

Both challengers unveiled the outlines of a new push to respectively market the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet and Typhoon to Ottawa as replacements for the Canadian air force's Boeing CF-18 (F/A-18A/B) Hornets by the end of the next decade.

As a member of the nine-nation Joint Strike Fighter programme since 2002,

Lockheed executives have described Canada as a likely buyer for up to 80 F-35s, although the Department of National Defence has released a revised requirement for 65 jets.

Canada has invested $150 million to participate in the F-35's system development and demonstration phase, and has signed for a follow-on production and sustainment phase.

But despite this track record and a $9 billion stake over the life of the programme for Canadian industry, Lockheed acknowledges that the DND has not committed to buy F-35s, says Keith Knotts, business development director for Canada and the UK. Ottawa plans to begin receiving new fighters in 2017.

Lockheed believes that Canadian industry will pressure DND officials to make a decision soon to buy the JSF, as many suppliers are facing imminent decisions on making major capital investments for new tooling to support their role in the programme, Knotts says.

Boeing's sales pitch to Ottawa is also focused on economic gains. Buying new Super Hornets could generate $8 billion in economic benefit for Canadian industry over 25 years, and provide access to offset work across the whole of Boeing and the Hornet Industry Team's portfolio of contract work, says Glenn Erutti, its director of new international Super Hornet business development.

Similarly, the four-nation Eurofighter consortium has touted "job creation and sustainment", as well as the ability to transfer "full sovereignty" over the Typhoon's operational technology, says Ian Malin, head of Typhoon exports business development for BAE Systems. BAE is leading Eurofighter's marketing campaign in Canada.

DND officials have not publicly defined how the F-35's challengers will be considered in their decision-making.

Boeing officials say they expect Ottawa to decide within a year on whether to recommend a selected fighter or invite competitive bids for its next-generation fighter requirement.

A final decision is needed by no later than 2014 to meet Canada's 2017 in-service deadline.

<SCRIPT language=javascript type=text/javascript>var zodClientId=56;var zodContentEnhancementResult=new Object();zodContentEnhancementResult.semantics=new Object();var zodEntities=[{variant:"Boeing",entities:[{infusionType:"",displayName:"Boeing",entityTypeId:"3",location:"",localId:"ID010029",landingPageId:"51",globalSemanticId:"25633293"}]}];function LandingPageGenerator(entityTypeID, sourceId, displayName, landingPageId){v="";switch(landingPageId){case "1":v="http://www.variety.com/profiles/Company/main/"+encodeURIComponent(sourceId)+"/"+encodeURIComponent(displayName)+".html?dataSet=1";break;case "10":v="http://globalsourcebook.hotelsmag.com/CompanyInfo.aspx?CoID="+encodeURIComponent(sourceId)+"&Company="+encodeURIComponent(displayName);break;case "11":v="http://goldbook.libraryjournal.com/CompanyInfo.aspx?CoID="+encodeURIComponent(sourceId)+"&Company="+encodeURIComponent(displayName);break;case "12":v="http://jewelersdirectory.jckonline.com/CompanyInfo.aspx?CoID="+encodeURIComponent(sourceId)+"&Company="+encodeURIComponent(displayName);break;case "13":v="http://buyersguide.convertingmagazine.com/CompanyInfo.aspx?CoID="+encodeURIComponent(sourceId)+"&Company="+encodeURIComponent(displayName);break;case "14":v="http://buyersguide.semiconductor.net/CompanyInfo.aspx?CoID="+encodeURIComponent(sourceId)+"&Company="+encodeURIComponent(displayName);break;case "15":v="http://cpguide.packagingdigest.com/CompanyInfo.aspx?CoID="+encodeURIComponent(sourceId)+"&Company="+encodeURIComponent(displayName);break;case "16":v="http://www.chemyellowpages.com/CompanyInfo.aspx?CoID="+encodeURIComponent(sourceId)+"&Company="+encodeURIComponent(displayName);break;case "17":v="";break;case "18":v="http://guide.csemag.com/CompanyInfo.aspx?CoID="+encodeURIComponent(sourceId)+"&Company="+encodeURIComponent(displayName);break;case "19":v="";break;case "2":v="http://www.variety.com/profiles/people/main/"+encodeURIComponent(sourceId)+"/"+encodeURIComponent(displayName)+".html?dataSet=1";break;case "20":v="";break;case "21":v="";break;case "26":v="http://www.caterer-directory.com/product-"+"000000".substr(0,6-encodeURIComponent(sourceId).length)+encodeURIComponent(sourceId)+".html";break;case "27":v="http://www.caterer-directory.com/company-"+"00000000".substr(0,8-encodeURIComponent(sourceId).length)+encodeURIComponent(sourceId)+".html";break;case "29":v="http://buyersguide.semiconductor.net/SearchResults.aspx?SearchText="+encodeURIComponent(sourceId)+"&SearchType=SP&CatId="+encodeURIComponent(sourceId);break;case "3":v="http://www.variety.com/profiles/Film/main/"+encodeURIComponent(sourceId)+"/"+encodeURIComponent(displayName)+".html?dataSet=1";break;case "31":v="http://resourceguide.interiordesign.net/SearchResults.aspx?SearchText="+encodeURIComponent(sourceId)+"&SearchType=SP&CatId="+encodeURIComponent(sourceId);break;case "32":v="http://www.icis.com/v2/chemicals/"+encodeURIComponent(sourceId)+"/"+encodeURIComponent(displayName)+".html";break;case "33":v="http://www.icis.com/v2/companies/"+encodeURIComponent(sourceId)+"/"+displayName.replace(/ /g,"-").toLowerCase()+".html";break;case "34":v="";break;case "35":v="";break;case "36":v="";break;case "37":v="";break;case "38":v="";break;case "39":v="";break;case "4":v="http://www.variety.com/profiles/TVSeries/main/"+encodeURIComponent(sourceId)+"/"+encodeURIComponent(displayName)+".html?dataSet=1";break;case "40":v="";break;case "41":v="";break;case "42":v="";break;case "43":v="";break;case "44":v="";break;case "45":v="";break;case "46":v="";break;case "47":v="";break;case "48":v="";break;case "49":v="";break;case "5":v="http://www.zibb.com/all/theme/cq/"+encodeURIComponent(displayName);break;case "50":v="";break;case "51":v="http://www.flightglobal.com/landingpage/"+encodeURIComponent(displayName.toLowerCase())+".html";break;case "6":v="http://resourceguide.interiordesign.net/CompanyInfo.aspx?CoID="+encodeURIComponent(sourceId)+"&Company="+encodeURIComponent(displayName);break;case "7":v="http://www.la411.com/company-"+(displayName)+"&lid-"+(sourceId)+".htm";break;case "8":v="http://www.newyork411.com/company-"+(displayName)+"&lid-"+(sourceId)+".htm";break;case "9":v="";break;case "kw":v=sourceId;break;}return v;}if (typeof(zodContentEnhancementQuery.infuser) != 'undefined') {zodContentEnhancementQuery.infuser.SetUrlGenerator(LandingPageGenerator);}else {zodContentEnhancementQuery.infuseRequest.urlGenerator = LandingPageGenerator;}if (typeof(zodEntityLoaded)=="undefined") {var zodEntityLoaded=true;} else {zodEntityLoaded = true;}zodContentEnhancementResult.relatedResponses=new Array();var zodRR;var zodHits;var zodPageNav;var zodPages;if (window.zodDisplayContentEnhancement){zodDisplayContentEnhancement(zodContentEnhancementResult);}</SCRIPT>
 
I hope that DND holds off on buying some of these bad boys for even a little while, wiht the way our economy is right know, I don't think it's a smart move.

Don't get me wrong, we need an up-to-date aircraft for our air force, but now isn't really the best time for large purchases like this.:kilroy:
 
VaporZ said:
. . .Canada has invested $150 million to participate in the F-35's system development and demonstration phase, and has signed for a follow-on production and sustainment phase.
Click to expand...



This is the biggest clue that leads me to predict an F-35 fleet in Canada !

:kilroy:
 
A Question for Toastmaster

What will you do on a "far far north" intercept Norad mission
with a shut off F-35 engine that do not want to relight ?

For this reason, everybody within our operational combat
squadrons would like to have a Typhoon, a SuperBug or
a Rafale.

Twin engine configuration is just like condoms :

Its preferable to always have it nearby even when not needed
that
not having it when needed.
:engel016:
VaporZ
 
Don't see that we need such an ugly a/c here in the great white north. Foremost they need to replace the Tutors with Hawks.
 
VaporZ said:
A Question for Toastmaster

What will you do on a "far far north" intercept Norad mission
with a shut off F-35 engine that do not want to relight ?

For this reason, everybody within our operational combat
squadrons would like to have a Typhoon, a SuperBug or
a Rafale.

Twin engine configuration is just like condoms :

Its preferable to always have it nearby even when not needed
that
not having it when needed.
:engel016:
VaporZ
Click to expand...



Ok, good point - but. . . Is Canada willing to walk away from 150 mil. + development participation in the F-35 for two engines ?
 
Rafale? not a chance, extremely expensive for what you get, don´t get me wrong, but you got your options down to 0 weapons wise when you acquire french military hardware, it has to be french made or get into a compatibility program, so expensive, that the whole deal becomes ludicrous..
Prowler
 
The investment of 150 Millions is nothing like many other totally wrong decisions our Government made in the past.

This "JSF Club" fee is close to the current unit price of only ONE F-35 that is actually set at 122 Millions $ with forecast putting the final unite price tag at 188 Millions $ !!!

For this reason the Canadian F-35 needed fleet is no longer for 80 units but for 65 units.

65 F-35 at 122 millions each gave us a procurement budget totalling 7,930 Millions $.

With this same budget it is possible to buy 100 F-18E/F SuperBugs
at 78 $ Millions each and they are twin engines.
:wavey:
VaporZ
 
Considering Canada's northern WX patterens and harsh northern climates. Id take the F-18E/F SuperBugs. The eurofighter is unproven yet as I know in harsh cold climates like Canadas or the USA, let alone Siberia of the Russian Federation. My thinkin is using the Northwest Territories/Yukon as a example the eurofighter will choke in -50f+ with windchill.
 
I'm in aggrement with Trans_1007, the superhornet would be the best and most logical choice for our next fighter, the fact that it's a dual engine aircraft is an advantage over the F-35. And the Rafale probably wouldn't be a good chance either, it's most likely a very capable fighter, but the fact that you would have to make compatible is also an expensive extra.

The Eurofighter I don't really know that much about, I just have a feeling that it won't do well in cold sub-zero climates.:icon_lol:
 
VaporZ,
Actually, now that the F-22 is cancelled and orders will be increased for the F-35, the projected F-35 price will be much lower than 188mill/unit....
 
Panther_99FS said:
VaporZ,
Actually, now that the F-22 is cancelled and orders will be increased for the F-35, the projected F-35 price will be much lower than 188mill/unit....
Click to expand...

Good point, I never thought about that. How much lower is the question.:kilroy:
 
wouldnt the f18s range be an issue though in canada? or has that been increased a bit since last time i looked (was about 300 miles then)
 
Toastmaker said:
Superbug, eh? Ok, great airplane - then I assume VTOL is of no value to Canadian Forces ??
Click to expand...

All we have to do get where were going, doesn't matter how I suppose. The VTOL capability that some aircraft is a fine asset, don' get me wrong, I just don't see the advantage it would give us. Espectially where we have to patrol our Arctic region more and more frequently now a days.
 
Vtol

I believe we Canucks were supposed to buy just the A model(no VTOL or carrier requirements). :wiggle:
Personally I like the Eurofighter from what I see of it, however the Superbug probably makes the most sense. Pilots, maintainers, and industry could transition with minimum fuss.

Regards, Rob :ernae:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top