Mike71
SOH-CM-2024
A tetrahedron does not rotate in the wind - it actually is set in place, can rotate but is then locked;
See https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/pub...is installed when,in the direction of landing.
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Warbirds Library V4 (Resources for now) How to
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Library How to
KNGZ NAS Alameda
- Thread starter tgycgijoes
- Start date
A tetrahedron does not rotate in the wind - it actually is set in place, can rotate but is then locked;
See https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/pub...is installed when,in the direction of landing.
gray eagle
SOH-CM-2024
Well I sure got the wrong impression from reading this... Maybe if we add the word wind to tetrahedron....
https://www.halibrite.com/wind-direction-indicator/how-to-read-tetrahedron-wind-indicator/
https://www.halibrite.com/wind-direction-indicator/how-to-read-tetrahedron-wind-indicator/
tgycgijoes
Members +
Red Label Areas
[h=2]Re: Red Label Area[/h]
[h=2]Re: Red Label Area[/h]
A couple of comments on your fine effort which will help:
1. Red Label areas are for handling hazadrous exposives and pyro items. As an example, here is an extract From an instruction on MCAS New River:
2. Red Label Cargo. Red label cargo are explosives or
pyrotechnic type munitions delivered or shipped by aircraft.
a. Loading and unloading of red label cargo shall take
place in the CALA on the spots designated by the ESO or the
AOPSO.
ASO 3710.7Y
3-29 Enclosure (1)
b. ARFF shall post a crash vehicle in the CALA during red
label cargo operations.
c. Red label cargo has priority at the CALA
Also, I posted some info on tetrahedrons as a reply to one of your concerns - the do NOT move with the wind - they indicate runway landing direction in use. Not particularly useful except at uncontrolled airports or if NORDO.
Hope this helps
1. Red Label areas are for handling hazadrous exposives and pyro items. As an example, here is an extract From an instruction on MCAS New River:
2. Red Label Cargo. Red label cargo are explosives or
pyrotechnic type munitions delivered or shipped by aircraft.
a. Loading and unloading of red label cargo shall take
place in the CALA on the spots designated by the ESO or the
AOPSO.
ASO 3710.7Y
3-29 Enclosure (1)
b. ARFF shall post a crash vehicle in the CALA during red
label cargo operations.
c. Red label cargo has priority at the CALA
Also, I posted some info on tetrahedrons as a reply to one of your concerns - the do NOT move with the wind - they indicate runway landing direction in use. Not particularly useful except at uncontrolled airports or if NORDO.
Hope this helps
tgycgijoes
Members +
Tetrahedrons
According to Halbrite as you can see from Gray Eagle's post, tetrahedrons can rotate with the wind but are not nearly as sensitive as a windsock or windcone. Therefore pilots are cautioned not to rely on them in slight winds or obviously no wind. I wonder if both are true. Needs more investigation. Neverless, there are two tetrahedrons and one wind sock at least at NAS Alameda as the post above describes. Also Compass Circles.
Mike71
SOH-CM-2024
Again, I argue the point. In my experience, tetrahedrons had a cement block at varoius points on the ground so that it could be locked / aligned in the desired direction with a metal bar from the point of the tetrahedon down to the block / eyepad. - I suppose it could be set in some way to indicate wind but I always noticed them anchored down with a metal rod.
See this FAA info: https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/aim_html/chap4_secti
tgycgijoes
Members +
I Wonder
W
I wonder because of the contradictions, that the tetrahedrons like from 1943 and into the 1970's WERE stationary but now they swing into the wind as Hali-brite says. Interesting. Need some more information.
After opening up the small airport objects bgl in Model Converter X, I found that those tetrahedrons do not look anything like either of the photos above so, I worked all day on the USN tetrahedron using the one in the photo from NAS Argentia that I found as a model. It is on a cement pedestal but it does not appear that there is any steel rod(s) to secure it from rotating. I certainly do not believe that you are wrong. If I DON'T have to program it to rotate in the wind it will be easier to finish and place. It was a nightmare to place the steel poles onto the tetrahedron with all the angles but after four hours I am at the point to attach the lights. I feel that those on the spar and up toward the back are red and that those on the bottom sides and upper back are white so that is how I am going to place them as attached objects in Model Converter X and then create a bgl and mdl. I hate conflicting information
W
I wonder because of the contradictions, that the tetrahedrons like from 1943 and into the 1970's WERE stationary but now they swing into the wind as Hali-brite says. Interesting. Need some more information.
After opening up the small airport objects bgl in Model Converter X, I found that those tetrahedrons do not look anything like either of the photos above so, I worked all day on the USN tetrahedron using the one in the photo from NAS Argentia that I found as a model. It is on a cement pedestal but it does not appear that there is any steel rod(s) to secure it from rotating. I certainly do not believe that you are wrong. If I DON'T have to program it to rotate in the wind it will be easier to finish and place. It was a nightmare to place the steel poles onto the tetrahedron with all the angles but after four hours I am at the point to attach the lights. I feel that those on the spar and up toward the back are red and that those on the bottom sides and upper back are white so that is how I am going to place them as attached objects in Model Converter X and then create a bgl and mdl. I hate conflicting information
gray eagle
SOH-CM-2024
Link states Page not found.
Here is another link (that works) with additional contradicting info
https://www.dauntless-soft.com/PRODUCTS/Freebies/Library/books/AK/6-5.htm
But I digress.
Here is another link (that works) with additional contradicting info
https://www.dauntless-soft.com/PRODUCTS/Freebies/Library/books/AK/6-5.htm
But I digress.
tgycgijoes
Members +
I Think This Bears Out Mike 71
[FONT="]From another source: Wind tees and tetrahedrons can swing freely, and will align themselves with the wind direction. The wind tee and tetrahedron can also be manually set to align with the runway in use, therefore a pilot should also look at the wind sock if available.
No matter how the tetrahedron I place is being used manually OR with the wind, since in the simulators there is no live person to position the tetrahedron and set it manually, in the sim it will have to be wind sensitive so that it does not give misleading information. It IS interesting that NAS Alameda has a control tower and tetrahedrons. I am going to continue today with its construction and will hopefully have it all set for SODE placement by this evening. There will also be a windsock at the end of Rwy 31 next to the "wheels down" spot as Alan said.[/FONT]
[FONT="]From another source: Wind tees and tetrahedrons can swing freely, and will align themselves with the wind direction. The wind tee and tetrahedron can also be manually set to align with the runway in use, therefore a pilot should also look at the wind sock if available.
No matter how the tetrahedron I place is being used manually OR with the wind, since in the simulators there is no live person to position the tetrahedron and set it manually, in the sim it will have to be wind sensitive so that it does not give misleading information. It IS interesting that NAS Alameda has a control tower and tetrahedrons. I am going to continue today with its construction and will hopefully have it all set for SODE placement by this evening. There will also be a windsock at the end of Rwy 31 next to the "wheels down" spot as Alan said.[/FONT]
Mike71
SOH-CM-2024
The reason is what runway to use when NORDO. Flashing green ALDIS lamp signals only tell you you have been recognized to enter the pattern, later signals cleared to land - but WHERE?? A properly aligned tetrahedron gives this info when available.
Mike71
SOH-CM-2024
May have been a TRACOM CQ det. IF LEX was in work pierside and no other east coast carriers were readily available they could have been chopped to the west coast. Tough trip in TS2As, but cheaper and quicker than delaying the training syllabus of several students while waiting for an east coast boat.
tgycgijoes
Members +
Big Thanks
Hi Mike71,
I always welcome your real world input and always learn something new. I finished the tetrahedron today, but only the base is showing up at a test airport. I am going over to FSDevelopers and post my mdl and the xml and see what is going on with it. I thought I caught it with a syntax error but no such luck.
Hi Mike71,
I always welcome your real world input and always learn something new. I finished the tetrahedron today, but only the base is showing up at a test airport. I am going over to FSDevelopers and post my mdl and the xml and see what is going on with it. I thought I caught it with a syntax error but no such luck.
tgycgijoes
Members +
Divine Inspiration
I had a very wise pastor some years ago who gave gifts to all the congregation of a small stained glass ornament that says "LET GO AND LET GOD". If I took that advice more often instead of trying to do it myself and failing no matter what it was, (Like the infamous tetrahedron) I might get results a lot sooner and not get so frustrated. I will be going and cancelling my post at FSDevelopers that hasn't gotten any responses after I post this. When I just opened up my mind after asking for help from HIM, here is the result from a simple syntax error that I kept not catching. This is not KNGZ but 60J my home airport that I used for testing. It follows the wind too.
I had a very wise pastor some years ago who gave gifts to all the congregation of a small stained glass ornament that says "LET GO AND LET GOD". If I took that advice more often instead of trying to do it myself and failing no matter what it was, (Like the infamous tetrahedron) I might get results a lot sooner and not get so frustrated. I will be going and cancelling my post at FSDevelopers that hasn't gotten any responses after I post this. When I just opened up my mind after asking for help from HIM, here is the result from a simple syntax error that I kept not catching. This is not KNGZ but 60J my home airport that I used for testing. It follows the wind too.
tgycgijoes
Members +
Now That This Works
Now that finally the mystery has been solved for me I will be placing this in the proper location on KNGZ where I have it shown and sharing the SODE files.
Now that finally the mystery has been solved for me I will be placing this in the proper location on KNGZ where I have it shown and sharing the SODE files.
gray eagle
SOH-CM-2024
I am glad you had your eureka moment. This will make KNGZ more interesting to fly to and out from. The tetrahedrons look great.
I had a very wise pastor some years ago who gave gifts to all the congregation of a small stained glass ornament that says "LET GO AND LET GOD". If I took that advice more often instead of trying to do it myself and failing no matter what it was, (Like the infamous tetrahedron) I might get results a lot sooner and not get so frustrated. I will be going and cancelling my post at FSDevelopers that hasn't gotten any responses after I post this. When I just opened up my mind after asking for help from HIM, here is the result from a simple syntax error that I kept not catching. This is not KNGZ but 60J my home airport that I used for testing. It follows the wind too.
tgycgijoes
Members +
The End Of This Thread For Me
Here are the files for you to add to your 12bpilot SimObject and XML to have the elusive tetrhedron to be in its location at KINGZ NAS Alameda according to the 1967 runway and taxiway diagram that I was furnished by the NAS Alameda Museum curator. Enjoy. The question will never be finally answered if it followed the wind OR was positioned according to the wind to indicate the landing direction since it doesn't seem that anyone who used it has commented. Only Mike71 whose opinion I highly respect said they were positioned but since that is not possible to do in a simulator it follows the wind.
https://www.mediafire.com/file/rvorbderbjdesbf/KNGZ+TETRAHEDRON.zip/file
Here are the files for you to add to your 12bpilot SimObject and XML to have the elusive tetrhedron to be in its location at KINGZ NAS Alameda according to the 1967 runway and taxiway diagram that I was furnished by the NAS Alameda Museum curator. Enjoy. The question will never be finally answered if it followed the wind OR was positioned according to the wind to indicate the landing direction since it doesn't seem that anyone who used it has commented. Only Mike71 whose opinion I highly respect said they were positioned but since that is not possible to do in a simulator it follows the wind.
https://www.mediafire.com/file/rvorbderbjdesbf/KNGZ+TETRAHEDRON.zip/file
gray eagle
SOH-CM-2024
Thanks Richard, it works in P3D V5.4 - the only one I assume. It does follow wind direction changes.
It does follow wind direction changes.
tgycgijoes
Members +
Good News
Richard
Finally, right? God bless your Easter...He is risen, He is risen, indeed.Thanks Richard, it works in P3D V5.4 - the only one I assume.
Richard
tgycgijoes
Members +
FLOLS at Alameda
Since I received that 1967 runway/taxiway diagram from Alan one of the curators at the NAS Alameda Museum, as you know above I created and placed with SODE the tetrahedron and now I have been able with a download of an independent FLOLS trailer from Sylvain Parouty of the RFN website I downloaded at Flyawaysim. His instructions are how to use it in AI Carriers, but since it was an mdl I figured I would try and place it with SODE which I was able to do after some trial and error to get it accurately placed with the lat/long and the "heading" in a SODE xml. I am also including a new bgl for the base which I discovered was not accurately placed not having all the information I now do eight years later.
There is a README in the folder after you unzip it. I haven't tried it out yet with vLSO which you have to have saved the latest version since to my knowledge it is no longer online to download. I have his email somewhere which I used for help with the program and will try to email him to share vLSO here in the Warbirds library and hope some "idiot" didn't make him leave simming like has happened so often in the past. I will open up a new thread if he answers me and agrees. HELP ME PRAY THAT IS NOT WHAT HAPPENED
Since I received that 1967 runway/taxiway diagram from Alan one of the curators at the NAS Alameda Museum, as you know above I created and placed with SODE the tetrahedron and now I have been able with a download of an independent FLOLS trailer from Sylvain Parouty of the RFN website I downloaded at Flyawaysim. His instructions are how to use it in AI Carriers, but since it was an mdl I figured I would try and place it with SODE which I was able to do after some trial and error to get it accurately placed with the lat/long and the "heading" in a SODE xml. I am also including a new bgl for the base which I discovered was not accurately placed not having all the information I now do eight years later.
There is a README in the folder after you unzip it. I haven't tried it out yet with vLSO which you have to have saved the latest version since to my knowledge it is no longer online to download. I have his email somewhere which I used for help with the program and will try to email him to share vLSO here in the Warbirds library and hope some "idiot" didn't make him leave simming like has happened so often in the past. I will open up a new thread if he answers me and agrees. HELP ME PRAY THAT IS NOT WHAT HAPPENED
tgycgijoes
Members +
No More vLSO Blog
I hate it when websites are mucked up! Asking for help here. Anyone here if you are a member of the FSDT unofficial TacPac forum, PADDLES is over there. I tried to send him a PM and the dumb forum won't let me log in with my username and password. BUT when I think maybe they dropped me because I haven't been there in awhile, the forum tells me my username and email are already registered. I asked for a password reset and it tells me it has sent me an email link to reset it BUT again BUT no email has been forthcoming. See if you can PM PADDLES and ask him to put a link to vLSO in our library or where can it be downloaded with the blog now gone.
https://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php/board,4.0.html
I hate it when websites are mucked up! Asking for help here. Anyone here if you are a member of the FSDT unofficial TacPac forum, PADDLES is over there. I tried to send him a PM and the dumb forum won't let me log in with my username and password. BUT when I think maybe they dropped me because I haven't been there in awhile, the forum tells me my username and email are already registered. I asked for a password reset and it tells me it has sent me an email link to reset it BUT again BUT no email has been forthcoming. See if you can PM PADDLES and ask him to put a link to vLSO in our library or where can it be downloaded with the blog now gone.
https://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php/board,4.0.html