Learning AD2K

[aleatorylamp]

Hello folks,

AD2000... I remember doing the tutorial mentioned in the link, the RFO tutorial, and laughing my head when I saw that "RFO" was Rubbish Flying Object!
It was easy to understand and easy to do, and the building style surprisingly familiar - the aspect being similar to AF99.
As I was building for FS2002, I remember I didn´t need the section on display priority - which is similar to but most probably more effective than AF99´s way of grouping and gluing to avoid bleeds. I suppose that would be the only difficult or "unknown" factor.

Once I finish the Dornier Schnellbomber I´ll give the tutorial another go and see how it feels.
It may be a nice way for us to team up and do something a little "new".

OK, then
Cheers for now,
Aleatorylamp.

 

[aleatorylamp]

Hello folks,
I´ve just installed both AD2000 and AD2002, and I was wondering which of the two would be the best for CFS1.
I read a comment in AD2002 about some AD2000 items being obsolete because a number of 3D instructions for the FS98/2000 engine are no longer used in FS2002 and CFS2 - these must be the ones referring to glue and display priority for the prevention of bleeds.

So, the obvious choice is AD2000. I could do the tutorial and post my progress on this thread.
How about that?

Cheers,
Aleatorylamp

 

[smilo]

hello Stephan, as i recall, i upgraded to ad2k2.
i'm sorry to say, i can't remember why,
except, that it did work with cfs1.

i also remember installing fs2000 or was it fs2002?
i found it very convenient to look at the model's parts
lay out before going through all the sequencing procedures.

also, remember, save your work early and often.
i do remember the aggravation of having a crash
or something happen and loosing hours of work.

if you decide to follow the ad2k tutorial,
i would suggest starting a new thread.
just to keep things organized.
good luck and have fun.

 

[aleatorylamp]

Hello Smilo,
Thanks indeed for your indications!

I´ve had a go at the AD2000 RFO tutorial, and the first thing I noticed was that special care must be taken defining the paths for the program, the project and the aircraft. A silly mistake here also means it won´t compile.

Well, I´m finding it a bit tedious, (which I don´t remember from when I did the AD2k2 RFO years ago), mostly because there are many details that must be user-defined, which are not automatically assigned as in AF99. This is obviously because there are many more possibilities. A silly mistake results in a compilation error - I´ve just finished the canopy and defined the textures for the pilot and it won´t compile, and now I have to find where I goofed up.

Just before that step, however, there was a success of a kind. I had managed to actually see my khakhi-green oblong in CFS1: It gave a slow little bounce and started moving after firing up the engine, and it actually flew!!

I seem to remember that the AD2k2 tutorial for the RFO was considerably easier. Now, if you say that you had already initially upgraded to AD2k2 and that this worked for CFS1, then I think I´ll switch over to that instead of keeping on with AD2000.

Update:
I tried having a go at AD2k, but the file "AD2k2.dat" is missing and it won´t compile, so it´s a no-go here I´m afraid.

2nd. Update:
Fortunately I remembered an old hard disk and my old AD2k2 installation WITH AD2k2.dat (!!) on it, so I can go on qith my trials. If these go OK, I´ll open a new thread for my experiences with the AD2k2 "Rubbish Flying Object" (LOL) tutorial.

Cheers,
Aleatorylamp

 

[smilo]

so much has been forgotten,
but, i vaguely remember the compiling issues,
if things aren't done just so.
i believe that's why i said, backup, backup, backup.
i think i finally learned to save my work
each and every time before compiling...just in case.

earlier this morning, i was searching
an old machine for gauges.
while looking, i found some ad2k stuff.
there was also an install of fs2000
that i used to check the visuals.
there was even an unfinished ad2k project.

i think it might be time to start an ad2k thread.

ps, did i tell you, it's possible to import af99 parts?
it's true...a handy feature if you're more comfortable
constructing with af99.
just remember, parts only, no components or structures.

 

[aleatorylamp]

Hello Smilo,
I saved at every successful step, and got a wireframe cube made with triangles, but now I´m having serious problems with the AD2k2 Model Editor Code - It just won´t accept anything and keeps hanging.
I can´t even get far enough to have anything to compile.
Possibly AD2k2 doesn´t like modern computers.

It´s funny though, that the old AD2000 Model Code Editor works, although the coding style is rather different.
Consequently I think I´m landed with the old AD2000, but at least it seems to function, which is the main thing!

That bit on importing individual parts from AF99 could come in handy! Anyway, I´ll continue poking around in it these days, but only intermittently, because I want to finish the Do-17 first!

Cheers,
Aleatorylamp

 

[smilo]

well, as the saying goes,
if it don't work,
don't use it.
(...or did i make that up?)

i've been poking around my old xp
flight sim/developing machine
for most of the day...kinda fun.
mainly, i've been searching for gauges,
but, have also been running cfs1.

i also looked at my ad2k folder.
funny thing is, i see no ad2k2.
just ad2000.25 ...the upgrade.
everything i've ever done is there.
i'd say, don't worry about ad2k2
and go with the upgrade.

side bar;
i can see why i stepped back.
i can easily spend hours, all day,
messing with this stuff.

of course, i have been known to be
a wee bit obsessive compulsive

 

[aleatorylamp]

Hello Smilo,
OK, that Upgrade is the same one that works for me. It does seem the correct one because it makes you choose to compile for FS98/CFS or FS2000/CFS2 just before compiling, whereas AD2k2 needs FS2002 which I haven´t installed, so AD2k2.dat gives a compilation error.

So, AD2000 it is!!, and meanwhile, I have managed to progress to an oblong containing the pilot´s textured head and a transparent canopy with windscreen, but the front bulkhead is still missing, although I did take out that panel from the Desk sub-assembly.

A bit tedious, I must admit. Apart from easily getting lost amongs all the sub-assemblies, some of the simplest steps in the Model Editor Code are not explained, e.g. mouse-click sequence to point instructions to sub-assemblies. Somehow I managed, though, and seem to be progressing, but I´m still not sure if I want to use this as a building program. However, I have resolved to finish the Rubbish Flying Object with wings, tail empenage, and also animated prop and wheel!

Incidentally, there is another tutorial in the folder called "tuto98" - a very detailed one specifically for FS98 including the sequencing of parts to prevent bleeds - there is what seems to be a PBY Catalina image on the title page, but covers a simple plane and gives no screenshots.

Anyway, cheers,
Aleatorylamp

 

[smilo]

..."gives a compilation error" right!
because there is no fs2002/aircraft/rubbish/model folder
to send the compilation to....of course. why not?

about the missing bulkhead,
i'd bet it's facing the wrong way,
so, you're looking through it.
compile just the bulkhead,
then look for it in chase view
from different angles...is it there?
try flipping the bulkhead, then, compiling.
bet it will be there.

yes, sequencing is tedious, but, it can be done.
not to toot my own horn, but, look at the ar196.
especially the float struts...it was a bitch,
but, in the end, i got it. perseverance furthers
as i recall, i left in a bleed or two in the model,
as a challenge for folks to find...just for fun.
the thing is, if you're patient,
very complex models can be built.
a model within a model, as it were.
for example a wing, with a complex nacelle and gear,
built as a separate model, then, that model,
joined to a complex fuselage model.
but, that's down the road...just a teaser.
back to the rubbish.

 

[aleatorylamp]

Hello Smilo,
Yes, thanks. I found the bulkhead it and how to flip it!

Then I did the tail, but although I duplicated the panels for the stabilizers and flipped the duplicated ones, they still didn´t show up seen from the top - until I changed their colour and saw that the model hadn´t changed - so I realized I had to compile the main model again, apart from having newly compiled the tail section that´s built and called separately... Oh dear! It´s working OK now, though.

The fact that you actually managed to produce that masterpiece of your ar196 with such a high degree of complication and perfection, with this very tedious building program, is truly amazing!

My patience is not enough - Production is so slow because there are so many small, detailed steps to achieve anything, that it is too taxing on my nerves - I can barely manage with AF99...

I just loaded the other tutorial plane called "Ugly100" - why does the author name his creations so deprecatingly? - the "Rubbish Flying Object" is a bit reminiscent of the Pou-du-Ciel (Sky Flea) and he could have called it "Gnat" or something, and the "Ugly100" is not ugly at all - a Mustang/Spitfire cross with simple but nice lines could be called "Firebird" or suchlike. Anyway, just to illustrate, here are two screenshots.

Ugly100 shows up very nicely thanks to the lengthy but excellent bleed-avoiding code written in the tutorial-model, whereas RFO lacks it, of course. Patience, patience and patience for all that code indeed!!

Cheers,
Aleatorylamp

 

[smilo]

first, i have to thank you, Stephan,
for the 196 compliment.
as i said before,
i didn't want to toot my own horn,
or, was i fishing for compliments.
i was just trying to point out
what can be accomplished
with patience and perseverance.

i have no clue why the author
used degrading names for his examples.
it could be, knowing what can be accomplished
with ad2k, that's how he saw them.

i was just on my old machine,
searching for an old gauge layout image.
i stumbled upon several folders
of ad2k screen shots and some text doc
attempts at explaining how to do stuff.
there are even shots of constructing the ugly100.
apparently, i found it easier to take screen shots,
than to try to write things down.
it would also seem that i documented
the hell out of the ar196 build process
with screen shots of both the model
and what was done within ad2k.

sheesh...me thinks i've opened a can o worms.

 

[aleatorylamp]

Hello Smilo,
Sometime things are a bit daunting when it turns out it´s a can of worms.
But, not to worry, for the time being it´s just my curiosity.

The thing I want to do now (intermittently with the Do-17...) is to finish the RFO structure with prop and wheel animations, and add a light beam, as THIS IS where the principle of avoiding bleeds in AD2000 is explained in the RFO tutorial.

Then, with that in mind, it will be easier to understand the "anti-bleed" code used in Ugly100, and apply one in the RFO, to learn. Once that is done, I can decide if I like AD2000 or not!!

Cheers,
Aleatorylamp

 

[smilo]

as with anything else,
complexity seems to diminish with experience.

i've got to say, though,
as i watched you struggle
with af99 parts limitations
and bleed issues on the Do17,
i kept thinking,
this wouldn't be happening with ad2k.
of course, i wasn't considering
the learning curve, just the results.

as always, it's your call.

 

[aleatorylamp]

Hello Smilo,
Yes, if it´s not one complication it´s another - no rest for the wicked!!

I´ve just discovered a comment in the Landing Lights chapter of the RFO tutorial: It uses the Z buffer, which was implemented AFTER FS98/CFS1, so the way the lights are done here does not work.
No lights then, but what the heck.

So, I´ll move on to the prop and wheel animations.
I can see an obvious sequencing in the Model Editor Code from here on in the RFO tutorial text, and screenshots show no bleeds, so the answer to the no-bleed sequencing must be THERE! For the moment, there are terrible bleeds everyehwere on my RFO.

BTW: All this exchange on RFO and Ugly100 tutorials is most probably off topic with this thread.
Perhaps it would be best to do as you said yesterday, and move all this to a new thread, as of Post #18.
How would you feel about that?

Cheers,
Aleatorylamp

 

[smilo]

aaah, z buffering.....one of my favorite subjects.
it would make fs98 and cfs1 model building
so much easier. right?
but, then again, if fs98 and cfs1 had it,
they would almost be fs2000 and cfs2.
duh...i'm soo smart.

as you said,
"the no-bleed sequencing must be THERE!"
it is there...figuring it out is the learning curve.

you are absolutely correct.
we are way off topic and a dedicated thread
should be the order of the day.
i'll take care of it, right now.

 

[aleatorylamp]

Hello Smilo,
Your are so helpful.
Even though AD2000 is so tedious to learn, it is a challenge though.
Maybe it´s because the brain likes to learn...
Cheers,
Aleatorylamp

 

[smilo]

thank you, Stephan.
i heartily subscribe to the SOH Credo,
Let Being Helpful Be More Important Than Being Right!
they've been words to live by
since the day, back in 2003,
a friend helped me join the outhouse
after a long struggle with an unacceptable email address.

as i now recall, the challenge
was my main motivation with ad2k.
i'll be damned if i'll let it beat me.
then, when i saw the results,
....BINGO!


side note;
i always come directly to the cfs1 forum
and never peruse the other SOH forums.
but, today, i went out looking
for the exact wording of the SOH Credo.
while out there, i noticed on the home page,
that Ron "Ickie" Larson, the SOH Senior Admin,
had passed away, back on December 23, 2016.
Ron was the guy who kept this place running.
he was on constant alert for any and all security,
server and other issues that might harm SOH.
i was fortunate enough to be able to spend a day
with Ron a few years ago during one of my florida trips.
i'll tell you, right now, Ron was a loner, a weird duck,
but, honestly, aren't we all?
Rest In Piece, Ron
thank you for your service.

 

[aleatorylamp]

Hello Smilo,
I almost only look directly into the CFS1 forum too, but occasionally I enter throught the home "title" page and I saw the notice on "Ickie" Larson a few days ago, presumed he must have been someone important in SOH, but didn´t really know who he was. Now I do! Yes, RIP, Ron Larson.

A very fitting title for this thread. Let´s see if we can learn.
I looked up Z buffering, and, as everybody knows and now so do I, in post FS98/CFS1 simulators, it´s exactly what substitutes all our glueing and sequencing efforts!

Well, well... we could argue Z Buffering takes away the spice of life! I bet Ivan would agree.

Anyway, I think I´ll make the RFO propeller a bit bigger and the nose a bit pointed, and then I´ll change the name to Sky Dog or Chien du Ciel... and put a big cannon in the nose!

Cheers,
Aleatorylamp

 

[smilo]

z buffering is precisely why i had a fs2000 install
and sent the compiles there during the build stage.
basically, i could look at the model without bleeds
and see how the parts came together.
of course, when it came to sequencing,
i would compile to cfs1.

 

[Ivan]

Hi Guys,

I just saw this thread a couple hours ago.
Where can I find these tutorials? I have had AD2000 installed for a long time but have never figured out where to start.
Is it feasible to run this on my laptop without any flight simulator installation at all?
I still do not have a working development machine yet. The idea of a flat screen monitor may not work as well as I thought.
I probably will need to find yet another CRT.
I have spares but won't be doing much until I can move a few things around to see what is left of my computer parts after the room was cleared out.

- Ivan.