Learning AD2K
- Thread starter aleatorylamp
- Start date
aleatorylamp
Charter Member
Hello Smilo,
It´s never really too late, is it?
On one hand, I feel I should have got my teeth into Ad2k long ago, but on the other, I´m still quitewary about complicated bleed-avoiding jump plane sequences. It leads me to appreciate AF99´s automated process a little more, even if it has its shortcomings.
Actually, thinking about it on the tram back from classes, I thought I would like to have a look into your "196 cowl/spinner/prop.3dm" file, to see how you did things, so I´d take you up on your kind offer!
This morning I put a tail skid on the CubeFly... big deal - I want to convert it into a textured tail-wheel now. Retractable? Well... I don´t knopw yet.
Cheers,
Aleatorylamp
It´s never really too late, is it?
On one hand, I feel I should have got my teeth into Ad2k long ago, but on the other, I´m still quitewary about complicated bleed-avoiding jump plane sequences. It leads me to appreciate AF99´s automated process a little more, even if it has its shortcomings.
Actually, thinking about it on the tram back from classes, I thought I would like to have a look into your "196 cowl/spinner/prop.3dm" file, to see how you did things, so I´d take you up on your kind offer!
This morning I put a tail skid on the CubeFly... big deal - I want to convert it into a textured tail-wheel now. Retractable? Well... I don´t knopw yet.
Cheers,
Aleatorylamp
at the risk of getting ahead of ourselves,
on the help file contents tab, go to,
model editor, model editor instructions,
and open, test instructions, select and open
example of use of the jump plane instruction.
this page puts the sequencing process in perspective
don't worry about entering the 5 jump plane instructions,
they can be easily inserted...
But, you will have to fill in the information.
that's the hard part,
but, as i've said before,
the results are worth the effort.
attached are the cowl/prop/spinner 3DM files
and an image of the untextured finished product.
there is also, a bumps 3DM for the valve covers.
just unzip and drop the folder into the main ad2k folder.
you can navigate to and open each 3DMwith in ad2k,
but, when you close them,
be sure to click yes to save changes
or the program might delete the contents.
i hope this helps...have fun
on the help file contents tab, go to,
model editor, model editor instructions,
and open, test instructions, select and open
example of use of the jump plane instruction.
this page puts the sequencing process in perspective
don't worry about entering the 5 jump plane instructions,
they can be easily inserted...
But, you will have to fill in the information.
that's the hard part,
but, as i've said before,
the results are worth the effort.
attached are the cowl/prop/spinner 3DM files
and an image of the untextured finished product.
there is also, a bumps 3DM for the valve covers.
just unzip and drop the folder into the main ad2k folder.
you can navigate to and open each 3DMwith in ad2k,
but, when you close them,
be sure to click yes to save changes
or the program might delete the contents.
i hope this helps...have fun
aleatorylamp
Charter Member
Hello Smilo,
Thank you very much for the cowl and prop source files. How interesting!
I´ve just had a look. What is amazing is the level of detail allowed. The smooth bumps on the engine cowl are so rich in triangles they would be impossible to make in AF99! Despite the tremendous amount of work involved, it certainly makes for a very detailed aircraft!
Interesting too the prop blurs.
Cosmetic improvement on CubeFly: I´ve managed to take out the ugly joint between the "dice" centre fuselage and the narrower oval cross-sectioned tail-part, and instead of making the whole fuselage round, (I´d have had to change the plane´s name from "CubeFly" to "TubeFly"!!), I aligned the tail poligons with the 4 corners of the dice, and it worked! I looks cleaner - like a flying boxcar with a round tail end. Anyway, it was good practice.
Now, the tutorial proposes turning wheels, but I´ll give that one a miss because there´s no point - that´s only for FS2000.
OK! - Cheers,
Aleatorylamp
Thank you very much for the cowl and prop source files. How interesting!
I´ve just had a look. What is amazing is the level of detail allowed. The smooth bumps on the engine cowl are so rich in triangles they would be impossible to make in AF99! Despite the tremendous amount of work involved, it certainly makes for a very detailed aircraft!
Interesting too the prop blurs.
Cosmetic improvement on CubeFly: I´ve managed to take out the ugly joint between the "dice" centre fuselage and the narrower oval cross-sectioned tail-part, and instead of making the whole fuselage round, (I´d have had to change the plane´s name from "CubeFly" to "TubeFly"!!), I aligned the tail poligons with the 4 corners of the dice, and it worked! I looks cleaner - like a flying boxcar with a round tail end. Anyway, it was good practice.
Now, the tutorial proposes turning wheels, but I´ll give that one a miss because there´s no point - that´s only for FS2000.
OK! - Cheers,
Aleatorylamp
i like that you modified the design.
that's what the program is about.
to be honest, you carried on
with the cube much farther than i did.
i'm glad that you liked the 3DMs.
i could talk for hours
about the potential for detail,
or, actually, show it to you.
i'm, in no way, suggesting
that you get as carried away.
instead, just demonstrating what can be done.
granted, the program falls short
in a few areas...for example,
lights and animated wheels.
i never experimented with them.
i also had a problem with animated spoilers,
which i wanted to use as bomb bay doors.
but, i chalked it up to user error.
that's what the program is about.
to be honest, you carried on
with the cube much farther than i did.
i'm glad that you liked the 3DMs.
i could talk for hours
about the potential for detail,
or, actually, show it to you.
i'm, in no way, suggesting
that you get as carried away.
instead, just demonstrating what can be done.
granted, the program falls short
in a few areas...for example,
lights and animated wheels.
i never experimented with them.
i also had a problem with animated spoilers,
which i wanted to use as bomb bay doors.
but, i chalked it up to user error.
aleatorylamp
Charter Member
Hello Smilo,
Yes, it´s looking a bit better than the original. That´s why I want to do a decent Jump Plane sequence, and any screenshots I post won´t be so disastrously riddled with bleeds.
The bigger prop and longer gear also look better, and it still needs the blur, and also an improvement on the gear retraction, because the wheels now end up tucked into the inside of the fuselage! A fuselage wheel-door may be fine, and then I have to figure out how to make the gear disappear when tucked in. ...with the RANGE instruction, as used on the disappearing blades and appearing propdisk.
I looked into the Help file, and found the chapter on Jump Planes quite clarifying. The PLANE + its vector is reminiscent of the glue templates in AF99, and the Jump Plane + vector are the viewing directions. Now I have only to decypher the lingo to use!
As regards turning wheels, like in FS98, in CFS1 they aren´t supported anyway, and as far as lights go, as Ivan says, who´s going to need them anyway? Nobody dogfights at night!!
All very interesting. ...and than you very much for your comments and encouragement!
Cheers,
Aleatorylamp
Yes, it´s looking a bit better than the original. That´s why I want to do a decent Jump Plane sequence, and any screenshots I post won´t be so disastrously riddled with bleeds.
The bigger prop and longer gear also look better, and it still needs the blur, and also an improvement on the gear retraction, because the wheels now end up tucked into the inside of the fuselage! A fuselage wheel-door may be fine, and then I have to figure out how to make the gear disappear when tucked in. ...with the RANGE instruction, as used on the disappearing blades and appearing propdisk.
I looked into the Help file, and found the chapter on Jump Planes quite clarifying. The PLANE + its vector is reminiscent of the glue templates in AF99, and the Jump Plane + vector are the viewing directions. Now I have only to decypher the lingo to use!
As regards turning wheels, like in FS98, in CFS1 they aren´t supported anyway, and as far as lights go, as Ivan says, who´s going to need them anyway? Nobody dogfights at night!!
All very interesting. ...and than you very much for your comments and encouragement!
Cheers,
Aleatorylamp
whether you realize it or not,
and, i'm sure you do,
you are gently pulling me back
into the world of ad2k design.
the problem is, i know myself too well.
i'm not sure if i can manage
the balancing act required.
without sounding morbid or defeatist,
i'm old. i have a limited amount of time left
and there are far too many irons in the fire.
i do not like to do things half assed,
which in turn requires time and patience.
i'm sure yo can see the vicious circle.
so much for my excuses...
i agree, af99 and ad2k have similarities.
although, i'm not that familiar with af99.
i believe it is important to look closely
at seals and how they function.
they are critical to the sequencing process.
if i'm not mistaken a proper jump plane
sequence has five sections corresponding
to the three, fore/aft, side to side and up/down views
with two more sections to tie them all together.
it's kinda funny, i was thinking about it this morning.
i recall, a few weeks ago, someone said,
we each have our little nitch of expertise.
for me, the tedious, assembly process
was the most enjoyable part of building.
scaling and reworking drawings was the worst.
at the time, i would have liked nothing better,
than collaborating with a master parts builder.
someone to build gnats ass accurate parts,
with no worries about limits.
send them to me and i would put the puzzle together.
of course, that never happened, i got burned out,
and walked away from the program
with two projects left unfinished.
so it goes.
okay, enough of that.
if you don't mind my saying or suggesting,
concentrate on one aspect at a time.
ie, gear location, prop, animation or jump plane.
figure it out, and then move on to the next phase.
take your time, be patient, enjoy the learning process.
easy for me to say, mister scattered in all directions.
and, i'm sure you do,
you are gently pulling me back
into the world of ad2k design.
the problem is, i know myself too well.
i'm not sure if i can manage
the balancing act required.
without sounding morbid or defeatist,
i'm old. i have a limited amount of time left
and there are far too many irons in the fire.
i do not like to do things half assed,
which in turn requires time and patience.
i'm sure yo can see the vicious circle.
so much for my excuses...
i agree, af99 and ad2k have similarities.
although, i'm not that familiar with af99.
i believe it is important to look closely
at seals and how they function.
they are critical to the sequencing process.
if i'm not mistaken a proper jump plane
sequence has five sections corresponding
to the three, fore/aft, side to side and up/down views
with two more sections to tie them all together.
it's kinda funny, i was thinking about it this morning.
i recall, a few weeks ago, someone said,
we each have our little nitch of expertise.
for me, the tedious, assembly process
was the most enjoyable part of building.
scaling and reworking drawings was the worst.
at the time, i would have liked nothing better,
than collaborating with a master parts builder.
someone to build gnats ass accurate parts,
with no worries about limits.
send them to me and i would put the puzzle together.
of course, that never happened, i got burned out,
and walked away from the program
with two projects left unfinished.
so it goes.
okay, enough of that.
if you don't mind my saying or suggesting,
concentrate on one aspect at a time.
ie, gear location, prop, animation or jump plane.
figure it out, and then move on to the next phase.
take your time, be patient, enjoy the learning process.
easy for me to say, mister scattered in all directions.
aleatorylamp
Charter Member
Hello Smilo,
Ha ha! I don´t know if it´s good or bad that I´m the cause of your being gently pulled back into the world of AD2k design...
OK, I understand how you feel. Don´t feel pushed - I´m not sure myself if I want to do all this on the long run - even the author said in the introduction that to use AD2k for FS98/CFS1 is a tedious job.
Anyway, with the Jump Plane instruction, it seems rather confsing - looks like it´s used all over the place, and not only in the main section before the list of sub-assies. In the tutorials there are even sequences within a sub-assy! I´ll get it sorted out, though.
Funny how you prefer to sort out the puzzle of sequencing, and I´d rather just build the pieces, parts and sections for darn thing!
At the moment I´m trying to sequence the spinner, the prop, the prop-axel and the fuselage body, in that order seen from the front, and inverse when seen from the back. Let´s see what happens.
Cheers,
Aleatorylamp
Ha ha! I don´t know if it´s good or bad that I´m the cause of your being gently pulled back into the world of AD2k design...
OK, I understand how you feel. Don´t feel pushed - I´m not sure myself if I want to do all this on the long run - even the author said in the introduction that to use AD2k for FS98/CFS1 is a tedious job.
Anyway, with the Jump Plane instruction, it seems rather confsing - looks like it´s used all over the place, and not only in the main section before the list of sub-assies. In the tutorials there are even sequences within a sub-assy! I´ll get it sorted out, though.
Funny how you prefer to sort out the puzzle of sequencing, and I´d rather just build the pieces, parts and sections for darn thing!
At the moment I´m trying to sequence the spinner, the prop, the prop-axel and the fuselage body, in that order seen from the front, and inverse when seen from the back. Let´s see what happens.
Cheers,
Aleatorylamp
well, jump plane seems logical to me.
if a sub assembly contains parts
that can bleed through each other
at different view angles...why not
run them through jump plane sequencing
before adding them to the main assembly,
which in turn, is a group of sub assemblies
that can bleed through each other
at different view angles.
basically, stopping bleeds within bleeds.
tedious? yes. but, i can't see a better way
to create a complex, clean, bleed free model.
for example, imagine the cowl, prop, spinner
assembly. imagine it with
the valve cover bumps added.
now, imagine that main assembly
without the individual parts in each "bump"
sequenced via the jump plane process.
in my opinion, a mess would be putting it mildly.
okay, about ordering your spinner, prop, axle and fuselage
in order of forward view...why not?
problem, i'm not sure you can duplicate s
ub assemblies within a main assembly.
i'm sure you can't...that's what jump plane is for.
just for fun, though, compile the model
with the subs in forward visual order,
then, with them in rear view order,
just to see how they look.
if a sub assembly contains parts
that can bleed through each other
at different view angles...why not
run them through jump plane sequencing
before adding them to the main assembly,
which in turn, is a group of sub assemblies
that can bleed through each other
at different view angles.
basically, stopping bleeds within bleeds.
tedious? yes. but, i can't see a better way
to create a complex, clean, bleed free model.
for example, imagine the cowl, prop, spinner
assembly. imagine it with
the valve cover bumps added.
now, imagine that main assembly
without the individual parts in each "bump"
sequenced via the jump plane process.
in my opinion, a mess would be putting it mildly.
okay, about ordering your spinner, prop, axle and fuselage
in order of forward view...why not?
problem, i'm not sure you can duplicate s
ub assemblies within a main assembly.
i'm sure you can't...that's what jump plane is for.
just for fun, though, compile the model
with the subs in forward visual order,
then, with them in rear view order,
just to see how they look.
aleatorylamp
Charter Member
OK, Smilo, thanks!
I was wondering the same, within subassemblies, how to have access to call others. But I´ll try from outside only first, i.e. from the top of the list in the model editor.
Cheers,
Aleatorylamp
I was wondering the same, within subassemblies, how to have access to call others. But I´ll try from outside only first, i.e. from the top of the list in the model editor.
Cheers,
Aleatorylamp
it's small wonder so many builders
left cfs1 in droves,
z buffering made the authors lives
so much easier.
not to mention the increased parts count.
the problem i had as a simmer,
was my older machine
couldn't handle the high frame rates.
so i uninstalled cfs2 and came back to one.
then, i became involved with multi player,
which provided years of fun and camaraderie.
in time, though, it got, in a word, old.
how many times must one be killed,
before one is dead?
cynical, yes, but true.
i finally succumbed to my wounds.
actually, i took up, what hubba called, lazy flying.
no combat, just flying.
okay, enough reminising...
how's that model coming along?
did you try a jump plane sequence
or did you fix the gear or prop instead?
ya know, sooner or later,
you're going to have to jump
into the coding aspect of the model.
don't be intimidated, just go for it.
what's the worse that can happen?
nothing?
left cfs1 in droves,
z buffering made the authors lives
so much easier.
not to mention the increased parts count.
the problem i had as a simmer,
was my older machine
couldn't handle the high frame rates.
so i uninstalled cfs2 and came back to one.
then, i became involved with multi player,
which provided years of fun and camaraderie.
in time, though, it got, in a word, old.
how many times must one be killed,
before one is dead?
cynical, yes, but true.
i finally succumbed to my wounds.
actually, i took up, what hubba called, lazy flying.
no combat, just flying.
okay, enough reminising...
how's that model coming along?
did you try a jump plane sequence
or did you fix the gear or prop instead?
ya know, sooner or later,
you're going to have to jump
into the coding aspect of the model.
don't be intimidated, just go for it.
what's the worse that can happen?
nothing?
aleatorylamp
Charter Member
Hello Smilo,
I can see why not only simmers stopped using FS98 and CFS1, but also why so many builders stopped building for FS98 /CFS1: Because of the need for an equivalent, manually made Z-Buffer for AD2k and a semi-manual one in AF99, that limited production to rather simplified models.
I was getting dizzy trying to follow all the gosubs in the different Jump Plane sequences in the tutorial, and didn´t even know where or how to start the Plane Jump Sequence for the CubeFly.
So, I decided to simplify things to have only a Prop and a Body with a Jump Plane between them, instead of Spinner, Prop, Axel, Nose and Body separated by further planes. I made the Spinner conical, sifted it into the Prop, eliminated the Axel, and sifted the Nose into the body, aligned the front with the Spinner vertices.
New Update:
After sorting out some problems involving the animated prop, I have the simplified version animated properly and with the cubic shapes of the body blending nicely with the hexagonal cross-sectioned spinner. Now there are only 2 sub-assies to Jump-Plane-sequence: Prop and Body.
The first step is done: Inside the Prop sub-assy (containing blades, propdisk and spinner), I put in a Jump Plane Sequence to separate the blades from the spinner. And... IT WORKS!!! Now for the rest!
The second step: Separating the body from the prop. Using the same principle, this time at the beginning of the same list, it won´t work yet....
Cheers,
Aleatorylamp
I can see why not only simmers stopped using FS98 and CFS1, but also why so many builders stopped building for FS98 /CFS1: Because of the need for an equivalent, manually made Z-Buffer for AD2k and a semi-manual one in AF99, that limited production to rather simplified models.
I was getting dizzy trying to follow all the gosubs in the different Jump Plane sequences in the tutorial, and didn´t even know where or how to start the Plane Jump Sequence for the CubeFly.
So, I decided to simplify things to have only a Prop and a Body with a Jump Plane between them, instead of Spinner, Prop, Axel, Nose and Body separated by further planes. I made the Spinner conical, sifted it into the Prop, eliminated the Axel, and sifted the Nose into the body, aligned the front with the Spinner vertices.
New Update:
After sorting out some problems involving the animated prop, I have the simplified version animated properly and with the cubic shapes of the body blending nicely with the hexagonal cross-sectioned spinner. Now there are only 2 sub-assies to Jump-Plane-sequence: Prop and Body.
The first step is done: Inside the Prop sub-assy (containing blades, propdisk and spinner), I put in a Jump Plane Sequence to separate the blades from the spinner. And... IT WORKS!!! Now for the rest!
The second step: Separating the body from the prop. Using the same principle, this time at the beginning of the same list, it won´t work yet....
Cheers,
Aleatorylamp
Last edited:
cool!!!
am glad to hear you figured out the prop/spinner.
all that is in a sub assembly, right?
is the body in a separate sub assembly?
it should be.
if so, please describe what you're getting
that won't work.
does it compile or do you get an error?
if it compiles, are the two subs out of sequence?
if so, change the order of the gosub calls.
make sure the gosub calls are reversed.
for example, (over simplified)
gosub, body
gosub, prop/spinner
return
gosub, propspinner
gosub, body
return
as i said, the example is over simplified,
but, i think you know what i mean
am glad to hear you figured out the prop/spinner.
all that is in a sub assembly, right?
is the body in a separate sub assembly?
it should be.
if so, please describe what you're getting
that won't work.
does it compile or do you get an error?
if it compiles, are the two subs out of sequence?
if so, change the order of the gosub calls.
make sure the gosub calls are reversed.
for example, (over simplified)
gosub, body
gosub, prop/spinner
return
gosub, propspinner
gosub, body
return
as i said, the example is over simplified,
but, i think you know what i mean
aleatorylamp
Charter Member
Hello Smilo,
The Blades no longer bleed through the spinner seen from the front, but seen from behind, the prop-spinner still bleeds through the body. Actually the Body is a separate sub-assy and the plane does compile, so I don´t really know what´s wrong.
Anyway, what I´ve decided to do before continuing with the CubeFly, is to do the Ugly100 Tutorial (changing the name to Pony, and the red to blue), and at the moment I am doing the tail section.
Cheers,
Aleatorylamp
The Blades no longer bleed through the spinner seen from the front, but seen from behind, the prop-spinner still bleeds through the body. Actually the Body is a separate sub-assy and the plane does compile, so I don´t really know what´s wrong.
Anyway, what I´ve decided to do before continuing with the CubeFly, is to do the Ugly100 Tutorial (changing the name to Pony, and the red to blue), and at the moment I am doing the tail section.
Cheers,
Aleatorylamp
frustrating, isn't it?
i don't blame you for moving on.
no doubt, this is a basic sequencing issue.
i have some ideas as to what might be problematic,
but, instead of playing guessing games,
how about zipping up the cube
and posting it so i can have a look?
who knows, maybe, i can learn something.
ride that pony
i don't blame you for moving on.
no doubt, this is a basic sequencing issue.
i have some ideas as to what might be problematic,
but, instead of playing guessing games,
how about zipping up the cube
and posting it so i can have a look?
who knows, maybe, i can learn something.
ride that pony
aleatorylamp
Charter Member
Hello Smilo,
Thanks for your offer! Here´s the CubeFly .zip!
I haven´t really moved on, I´m just doing the other Tutorial 98 to figure out the rest of the sequencing for the CubeFly.
The screenshot shows the beautifully bleedfree spinner, prop and body (seen from the front).
The "CubeFly V0.zip" (version zero) contains one directory called "CubeFly" which is the aircraft for CFS1, and one called "CubeFly Ad2k Source", to be moved into the main AD2k directory, renamed as "CubeFly", to work with.
It also contains the Help Files for direct access through Ad2k... I didn´t take them out.
So, let´s see if it can be mended! Thanks a lot. I hope you will enjoy it!
At least it is all quite intriguing and fun, apart from a "little" frustration now and then. ...But nobody said it would be easy, huh?
Cheers,
Aleatorylamp
Thanks for your offer! Here´s the CubeFly .zip!
I haven´t really moved on, I´m just doing the other Tutorial 98 to figure out the rest of the sequencing for the CubeFly.
The screenshot shows the beautifully bleedfree spinner, prop and body (seen from the front).
The "CubeFly V0.zip" (version zero) contains one directory called "CubeFly" which is the aircraft for CFS1, and one called "CubeFly Ad2k Source", to be moved into the main AD2k directory, renamed as "CubeFly", to work with.
It also contains the Help Files for direct access through Ad2k... I didn´t take them out.
So, let´s see if it can be mended! Thanks a lot. I hope you will enjoy it!
At least it is all quite intriguing and fun, apart from a "little" frustration now and then. ...But nobody said it would be easy, huh?
Cheers,
Aleatorylamp
Attachments
aleatorylamp
Charter Member
Thanks, Smilo, I´m off to bed... it´s past midnight!
Good night!
Aleatorylamp
Good night!
Aleatorylamp