Legacy Aircraft

LouP said:
Had this issue until I left it in the basic format when converted and use the legacy model in MSFS. Works perfectly! Using this Stearman to fly the route of the Cannibol Queen.

LouP
Click to expand...

Sounds like a cool adventure.

I'm happy with it now seeing as it just took a basic cfg tweak to fix and it flys fine in the modern flight model in MSFS.
Engine sounds are a bit rough but that should be easy enough to fix and it could really do with some higher res textures, there very noticable in VR.
 
LouP said:
I put some payware stearman sounds in it ( simMarket: IMMERSIVE AUDIO - BOEING STEARMAN PT-17 SOUNDPACK HD FSX P3D ) and they seem to have come over and work fine in msfs. I don't suppose you could share the tweak. Also, anyway to fix the previews in msfs?

LouP
Click to expand...

Its all in my post above but basically open the flight_model.cfg and in the [FUEL] section look for
electric_pump = 0 ;
engine_driven_pump = 0 ;
manual_pump = 0 ;
and change engine_driven_pump = 0 to engine_driven_pump = 1
 
Another plane, another problem.

This time its with Ant's Tiger Moth, another one I've seen that some here have ported.
I've tried with both the Tiger Moth Pro and with the older non pro version and I get same thing.

Roll and yaw work fine but in the pitch if I pitch down that's fine but if I pitch up I can pull the stick back about 3/4 and its fine any further than that it behaves like I've centered the stick.
It's not a controller problem, all other plane behave as they should. I've also tried copying over the flight_model.cfg from another biplane that I know works and the problem goes away. That's not a permanent solution though as it's not the right flight model.

I really don't know what I'm doing with flight models but can usually get my head around thing if someone nudges me in the right direction :)

Anyone have any ideas ?
 
Dangerous Beans said:
Another plane, another problem.

This time its with Ant's Tiger Moth, another one I've seen that some here have ported.
I've tried with both the Tiger Moth Pro and with the older non pro version and I get same thing.

Roll and yaw work fine but in the pitch if I pitch down that's fine but if I pitch up I can pull the stick back about 3/4 and its fine any further than that it behaves like I've centered the stick.
It's not a controller problem, all other plane behave as they should. I've also tried copying over the flight_model.cfg from another biplane that I know works and the problem goes away. That's not a permanent solution though as it's not the right flight model.

I really don't know what I'm doing with flight models but can usually get my head around thing if someone nudges me in the right direction :)

Anyone have any ideas ?
Click to expand...

I believe what you're seeing is essentially a stall where when you pull too hard there is not enough lift to keep it pitching so it just mushes. A rough fix would be to increase the cruise_lift_scalar in the [flight tuning] section. Of course this will have ripple effects so you may then need to adjust the elevator effectiveness or angle to be a bit lower
 
SeeRyFly said:
I believe what you're seeing is essentially a stall where when you pull too hard there is not enough lift to keep it pitching so it just mushes. A rough fix would be to increase the cruise_lift_scalar in the [flight tuning] section. Of course this will have ripple effects so you may then need to adjust the elevator effectiveness or angle to be a bit lower
Click to expand...

It hadn't even occurred to me that it was a stall but now you say it that makes perfect sense.
Thanks, time to start experimenting.
 
Re Ant's Tiger Moth Pro
Roll and yaw work fine but in the pitch if I pitch down that's fine but if I pitch up I can pull the stick back about 3/4 and its fine any further than that it behaves like I've centered the stick.
Click to expand...

I have the problem in Modern FM too - watch the horizon sideways as you pull gently back on the stick and at around 2/3rds deflection the nose drops, relax the pull a little and it comes back up.
In normal flight it's not much of a problem but (eg) you can't do a loop, it won't come back past the vertical. You can do a nice stall turn or chandelle though :)
A bunt (half outside loop) is possible - but you can't complete the full outside loop.
A clue is that the stick doesn't move back and forth (just side to side) and neither rudder nor elevator move in outside view.
I guess Ant has some custom stuff somewhere that's lost in the import, or maybe the aerodynamics of the elevator are in the air file?

Use the legacy flight model and elevator works normally and you can loop OK, but the aerodynamic edges get messy and strange things happen.

It's a shame because the Tiger Moth is otherwise really nice in MSFS, I think Ant has commented on the Moth before, maybe he will again. :)

Cheers
Keith
 
AH_Fairchild_C119

nHZgVQq.jpg


Fs8S9P5.jpg
 
​Out of curiosity if for example you have the CH yoke setup in FSX can those Controls be copied over to MSFS?
 
Classic Wings Curtiss-Reid Rambler Mk III
Flies really nicely with the modern FM, no pilot in external view as its set up for VR so only using the VC model.
Still needs a little tweaking but mostly done.

Rambler.jpg
 
Ants Tiger Moth MSFS 2020 REPAINTS?

Hello All,

Are there any repaints for the above version if so can anyone advise Link/s

Thanks
Charlie McEwan
 
Is it just me, or has today's MSFS update 1.60.2.0 completely destroyed most Legacy Importer converted aircraft, to the point where they are unflyable? So far, most aircraft I have imported just gyrate impossibly and wreck as soon as the throttle is advanced.

August
 
RealAir and AH Spitfires behave like you describe, but Ant's Tiger Moth is fine, as is the Flight Replicas Bf109.
I'm thinking it's something in the .FLT files, need to compare those that work with those that don't...
 
I haven't had that on any of the planes I've tried so far, mostly GAS planes.
I have noticed that taildraggers seem to need a lot less rudder juggling on takeoff and landing than before, even the Carenado WACO seems better to me.
 
Legacy Planes Broken by 5/25/21 Update

Thanks. Well, as a community, I guess it's up to us to fix this. I have tried some more of my planes, and found that some work and some don't. Some of the broken ones are: Iris P-40E, RealAir Spitfire, AH Hurricane, Warbirdsim Mustangs. Some that appear to be OK include: AH P-47, A2A P-47, Wozza's T-6, GAS planes, Flight Replicas P-40N, Milviz P-38. I haven't seen the problem on any jets yet, but I don't have many of those.

The broken ones all seem to have the same issue. The engine generates about a million horsepower, and burns through all of its fuel in about 10 seconds. If you spawn the plane in the air and have airframe stress damage turned off, you can survive long enough to exhaust the fuel. Once the power quits, the plane otherwise seems to behave okay. But if you add fuel so the engine starts up again, you get the same problem as originally.

I believe the issue is in the AIR file. I just copied the AIR file from a plane that still works (Flight Replicas P-40N) into one that doesn't (Iris P-40E), and it solved the problem.

AIR files are not something I have tinkered with in the past. Hopefully someone here can troubleshoot this.

August
 
Noticed the fuel thing too...can glide in for a dead-stick landing OK once fuel exhausted (VERY quickly) or refuel for more craziness.
Don't think it's the FLT files.
The FR Halifax works but the B-24 doesn't (with same runway.flt), so following your tip I copied and renamed the Halifax AIR file to the B24...initially crazy as before, but on refuelling engines are OK.
Hmmm...
 
Two more observations.

1. I opened some AIR files with AIRED. So far, all the broken models have AIR files with a lot of entries that say [UNUSED] or [OBSOLETE]. The ones that work don't have those entries. Does that mean that some of the planes have old junk from past sims, like FS2004 or whatever, in their AIR files that could be causing the problem? Is it possible/safe to delete the unused and obsolete parts of an AIR file? Some of the [OBSOLETE] parts include manifold pressure scalars which I think might be the source of the problem, see below.

2. I tried setting the power_scalar of a broken plane (Iris P-40E) to 0.001 in the aircraft.cfg. That value turned out to be a little low, but it does (over)correct the power output and fuel consumption, and give me time to look around the cockpit for other issues. What i noticed is that the manifold pressure gauge jumps right to the peg as soon as I advance the throttle beyond idle. So I think this bug is increasing engine manifold pressure, maybe not by 1000x, but by a lot.

Maybe we can fix this in the aircraft.cfg file somehow. I was reading Yves Guillaume's Flight Dynamics guide, and it says:

OBSOLETE_AIR. When an aircraft is (re)loaded MSFS always checks if all required parameters in the aircraft.cfg exist. If this is not the case it will first try to look up the values from the AIR-file (OBSOLETE_AIR_*) and if found will add the equivalent lines and values to the aircraft.cfg. If the obsolete AIR-file records do not exist, MSFS will add a default value (normally 0 resp. 1 for scalars). This applies to mandatory lines in aircraft.cfg only. Optional parameters are not transferred from the AIR-file. Example:If wing area does not exist when the aircraft is loaded, MSFS will look for R1204_1 and will add the line and the value to aircraft.cfg. If R1204 is not present, wing area is set to 0.

So maybe MSFS is not finding something in aircraft.cfg and is going to the AIR file to replace it with an obsolete value, which is way off. On planes that don't have obsolete values in their AIR files, it just uses a default value which is reasonable and works. This suggests we could fix this bug either by stripping the obsolete values from the AIR files, or by adding the missing value to the CFG file.

August
 
Okay, I just tried my own suggestion and it looks like it works. I have the RealAir Spitfires, Iris P-40E and AF Corsairs working again, and they seem all right.

Here is what you do to get your legacy plane working again.

Go to https://www.aero.sors.fr/fsairfile.html, download and unpack AirEd 1.52 and the updated ini file.

Backup your plane's AIR file, load the original into AirEd. Right-click and pick REMOVE RECORD for every record that says UNUSED or OBSOLETE. Save the file.

Rebuild your JSON and delete that plane's CVT folder. (Not sure this is necessary but just to be safe.)

We probably don't need to delete all of those records, the problematic one seems to have to do with piston engine characteristics so if you want to be surgical you could experiment with which ones need to be deleted, but there doesn't seem to be any harm in deleting them all. Most of them are redundant with entries in aircraft.cfg, you can tell just by looking at them.

August
 
Good work!
Wonder if it's something to do with supercharging?

Tried on the RA Spit and FR B-24, just taking out obsolete engine and propeller entries and both now work fine :)
 
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