Thanks for that input Maarten.
A question for those of you who like options: Would you prefer I model those light points in gmax, or leave them for light effects?
Lockheed L-18 Project
- Thread starter Milton Shupe
- Start date
Thanks for that input Maarten.
A question for those of you who like options: Would you prefer I model those light points in gmax, or leave them for light effects?
Maarten -
Charter Member 2016
Hi Milton,
My preference would definitely go for light effects. Makes the model more flexible for all 70 plus years the type flies.
wbuchart
SOH-CM-2025
Lockheed L-18 Question
Aircraft.cfg file please.....most modeled lights don't look right for me, no doubt because my rig has a business class graphics card. Thanks! Bill
Edit:: Also, I do like to change nav and strobe effects around from time to time...
Aircraft.cfg file please.....most modeled lights don't look right for me, no doubt because my rig has a business class graphics card. Thanks! Bill
Edit:: Also, I do like to change nav and strobe effects around from time to time...
wbuchart
SOH-CM-2025
Lockheed L-18 Question
I can get you that info on my way home from work, beleive it or not there is an abandoned L-18 about 3 miles from my house at KLOU. Engines and cowlings have been stripped but everything else is there.
Can someone tell me how the two stacked tail lights should be rendered. White/red/yellow? Top = ??, Bottom = ?? No strobes in 50's right?
EDIT: and this one has 3 tail lights.Do not know what to do with that at all.
I can get you that info on my way home from work, beleive it or not there is an abandoned L-18 about 3 miles from my house at KLOU. Engines and cowlings have been stripped but everything else is there.
Thanks for the input; I will go with aircraft.cfg based light effects for the fixed nav/beacon/recognition lights. Wing, taxi, and landing lights will be modeled.
Motormouse
SOH-CM-2025
Maybe manuals were done before the production change?? Interesting.
That's quite normal for aviation even nowadays manuals are written off the design data , production changes and easements take time to get added to manuals.
Tail lights are normally white, multi lamp installations usually comprise a main and a spare.
Ttfn
Pete
Ps the red tail light on ph-dda was a leftover from wartime service, a night formation light.
Maarten -
Charter Member 2016
Oh yeah! That should be the reason. A leftover from the Finnish Air Force period. There was also a white light on the underside of the fuselage only inches behind the mid wing. For the same reason, I suppose.
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srgalahad
Charter Member 2022
The basic standard has long been:
(b) Left and right position lights. Left and right position lights must consist of a red and a green light spaced laterally as far apart as practicable and installed on the airplane such that, with the airplane in the normal flying position, the red light is on the left side and the green light is on the right side.
(c) Rear position light. The rear position light must be a white light mounted as far aft as practicable on the tail or on each wing tip.
§23.1401 Anti-collision light system.
(a) General. The airplane must have an anti-collision light system that:
(1) Consists of one or more approved anti-collision lights located so that their light will not impair the flight crewmembers' vision or detract from the conspicuity of the position lights; and
(2) Meets the requirements of paragraphs (b) through (f) of this section.
(d) Color. Each anticollision light must be either aviation red or aviation white and must meet the applicable requirements of §23.1397.
The position lights rules have been modified a bit at different times, mostly because specific aircraft had reasons for slight modifications (like multiple fins that blocked the normal requirements).
Anti-collision lights were not common until late-war or post WWII and have evolved from blinking (generally red) top & bottom lights, through the "Grimes" lights which used oscillating miniature spotlights in (most often) a red housing that gave a much brighter light. Grimes and others also developed other lights that were adopted or tested for wingtips etc. With the advent of capacitive-discharge lights (strobes) that were smaller and lighter the regulations changed again.
The original Lodestar lights were a single white rear position light, although there may have been military or civil requirements for an additional red tail light for identification or formation flying. Often, when new standards were tested the owners would install them but then would simply leave the housing and disable the lamp if it was ultimately not required.
Looking at the pictures, the dual-lights are a white position light and a red (or white) strobe aftermarket installation. The 3-light set-up is likely a standard single white original with a dual-light kit installed later.
There was (from my experience) no single set of locations for the top/belly anti-collision lights.The top ones seemed to be installed mid-fuselage to over the rear door -maybe just for ease of access to wiring. The lower ones I've seen were anywhere between the line of the wing spar to the passenger door -again ease of access may be the prime factor. Don't forget that the bulk of online pics show aircraft that have been in service and modified more than once.
Going back to the nose light for a moment, I found a pic that shows an opening but no light. It's likely that it was a duct for cabin air/heat and there was an option/mod to install a light - perhaps with some space left around the circumference for air intake. More interesting are the TCA & Canadian Pacific glazed noses that had a rotating loop antenna. I haven't found a reference but it wouldn't surprise me if it was a solution to cold-weather issues to prevent the loop mechanism from freezing. These aircraft also had a teardrop fixed loop antenna under the forward fuselage. Hard to tell if these also had a light behind the perspex.
(b) Left and right position lights. Left and right position lights must consist of a red and a green light spaced laterally as far apart as practicable and installed on the airplane such that, with the airplane in the normal flying position, the red light is on the left side and the green light is on the right side.
(c) Rear position light. The rear position light must be a white light mounted as far aft as practicable on the tail or on each wing tip.
§23.1401 Anti-collision light system.
(a) General. The airplane must have an anti-collision light system that:
(1) Consists of one or more approved anti-collision lights located so that their light will not impair the flight crewmembers' vision or detract from the conspicuity of the position lights; and
(2) Meets the requirements of paragraphs (b) through (f) of this section.
(d) Color. Each anticollision light must be either aviation red or aviation white and must meet the applicable requirements of §23.1397.
The position lights rules have been modified a bit at different times, mostly because specific aircraft had reasons for slight modifications (like multiple fins that blocked the normal requirements).
Anti-collision lights were not common until late-war or post WWII and have evolved from blinking (generally red) top & bottom lights, through the "Grimes" lights which used oscillating miniature spotlights in (most often) a red housing that gave a much brighter light. Grimes and others also developed other lights that were adopted or tested for wingtips etc. With the advent of capacitive-discharge lights (strobes) that were smaller and lighter the regulations changed again.
The original Lodestar lights were a single white rear position light, although there may have been military or civil requirements for an additional red tail light for identification or formation flying. Often, when new standards were tested the owners would install them but then would simply leave the housing and disable the lamp if it was ultimately not required.
Looking at the pictures, the dual-lights are a white position light and a red (or white) strobe aftermarket installation. The 3-light set-up is likely a standard single white original with a dual-light kit installed later.
There was (from my experience) no single set of locations for the top/belly anti-collision lights.The top ones seemed to be installed mid-fuselage to over the rear door -maybe just for ease of access to wiring. The lower ones I've seen were anywhere between the line of the wing spar to the passenger door -again ease of access may be the prime factor. Don't forget that the bulk of online pics show aircraft that have been in service and modified more than once.
Going back to the nose light for a moment, I found a pic that shows an opening but no light. It's likely that it was a duct for cabin air/heat and there was an option/mod to install a light - perhaps with some space left around the circumference for air intake. More interesting are the TCA & Canadian Pacific glazed noses that had a rotating loop antenna. I haven't found a reference but it wouldn't surprise me if it was a solution to cold-weather issues to prevent the loop mechanism from freezing. These aircraft also had a teardrop fixed loop antenna under the forward fuselage. Hard to tell if these also had a light behind the perspex.
Thank you for that info Rob; very interesting.
I will model all the lights and provide cfg entries that may be used or disabled. Great conversation is appreciated.
I will model all the lights and provide cfg entries that may be used or disabled. Great conversation is appreciated.
Motormouse
SOH-CM-2025
Shorts 3-30 and 3-60 (another of my type ratings ) had grimes rotating beacon, 2 miniature
spotlights, rotating housing and red lens cover, they were 1970s design!
Not sure when anti collision beacons became mandatory, probably tied up in far part 91 for our transatlantic cousins, and bcar and similar for us in Europe.
Ttfn
Pete
) had grimes rotating beacon, 2 miniaturespotlights, rotating housing and red lens cover, they were 1970s design!
Not sure when anti collision beacons became mandatory, probably tied up in far part 91 for our transatlantic cousins, and bcar and similar for us in Europe.
Ttfn
Pete
srgalahad
Charter Member 2022
I have photos of NorthStars in 1956/57 showing anti-collision lights (top of tail) but it looks as if that was phasing-in as some also don't have them. However I have a "fleet" pic of TCA aircraft (Connie, NorthStar, & DC-3) at CYVR in 1959 with all so-equipped. That makes it probable that 1960 was the 'mandatory date'. Of course, not all countries enabled the legislation on the same timetable but I doubt it would be much later.
"Anti-collision lights:
Flashing high-intensity lights, which considerably increase chances of recognition under night flying or dull-weather conditions, will shortly become mandatory for heavier aircraft in at least one I.C.A.O. member state."
Flight Magazine - Oct 1955
http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1955/1955 - 1515.html?search=anti-collision lights
srgalahad
Charter Member 2022
Lest anyone think there are "standard" locations for things such as lights and antennae...
View attachment 4766
The 'approved' method of cleaning the lens on the Grimes beacon is to get the new kid on the ramp to climb up via the hood of the tow mule, straddle the fuselage and using a rag and MirrorGlaze, polish the lens - while the 'old guy' hooks up the tow bar and begins towing the Lodestar down the ramp. (Don't ask!)
Also note that TDB still had HF radios installed in May 65 when this pic was taken - long-wire from the mast to each fin and a short lead to an insulated connector on the nose. Two newer auto-sensing ADF antennae under the forward fuselage, glide slope on the nose (note the"spear" pitot tube also on the nose). Clear view windows have been replaced with 1-piece windshield and hinged ports added to the cockpit side windows.
As an alternative, look at this partly-Howard-modified 18-56.
http://courtesyaircraft.com/Current Inventory/N6166 Lockheed L-18 Lodestar.htm
Scan thru the pics ( can be viewed full screen) and see the dual light tail nav light and different locations for the anti-collision beacons. The new nav lights were installed in 1994 (pic #82) according to the logbook.
View attachment 4766
The 'approved' method of cleaning the lens on the Grimes beacon is to get the new kid on the ramp to climb up via the hood of the tow mule, straddle the fuselage and using a rag and MirrorGlaze, polish the lens - while the 'old guy' hooks up the tow bar and begins towing the Lodestar down the ramp. (Don't ask!)
Also note that TDB still had HF radios installed in May 65 when this pic was taken - long-wire from the mast to each fin and a short lead to an insulated connector on the nose. Two newer auto-sensing ADF antennae under the forward fuselage, glide slope on the nose (note the"spear" pitot tube also on the nose). Clear view windows have been replaced with 1-piece windshield and hinged ports added to the cockpit side windows.
As an alternative, look at this partly-Howard-modified 18-56.
http://courtesyaircraft.com/Current Inventory/N6166 Lockheed L-18 Lodestar.htm
Scan thru the pics ( can be viewed full screen) and see the dual light tail nav light and different locations for the anti-collision beacons. The new nav lights were installed in 1994 (pic #82) according to the logbook.
I prefer the nav lights to be in cfg file too. Those huge light globes are just too big. But I know that people like them built in so they are visible in Multiplayer.
I am with you on that Tom. So it shall be
Lodestar Lights and Antennae
Okay, I think I have all I need for now. Added the tail lights stack, added a belly beacon, and added the lead wire from the nose mount to the top array. With this inventory of antennae and lights, we should be able to cover many variants.
Unless you see something that needs addressing, I shall move "indoors" to the Cabin and VC.
EDIT: Not happy with the fuselage tail, and the HTail has to be moved up 4-6 inches to meet the later standards. The 3-view showed the old original htail location.
Okay, I think I have all I need for now. Added the tail lights stack, added a belly beacon, and added the lead wire from the nose mount to the top array. With this inventory of antennae and lights, we should be able to cover many variants.
Unless you see something that needs addressing, I shall move "indoors" to the Cabin and VC.
EDIT: Not happy with the fuselage tail, and the HTail has to be moved up 4-6 inches to meet the later standards. The 3-view showed the old original htail location.
Fuselage tail redo; much better I think compared to picture above.
srgalahad
Charter Member 2022
Flight Magazine had this article
http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1940/1940 - 3229.html
Scroll down the page to "Progress in Research" - Vibration
I knew the L-18 prototypes were modified from Hudson airframes but hadn't seen a picture before now (with the original empennage)
http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1940/1940%20-%200573.html
"The prototype for the revised airliner, designated Model 18 by Lockheed, was converted from the fourth Model 14, one of a batch which had been returned to the manufacturer by Northwest Airlines after a series of crashes. The modified aircraft first flew in this form on September 21, 1939, another two prototypes being converted from Model 14s, with the first newly built Model 18 flying on February 2, 1940.[SUP]"
http://pediaview.com/openpedia/Lockheed_Model_18_Lodestar[/SUP]
http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1940/1940 - 3229.html
Scroll down the page to "Progress in Research" - Vibration
I knew the L-18 prototypes were modified from Hudson airframes but hadn't seen a picture before now (with the original empennage)
http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1940/1940%20-%200573.html
"The prototype for the revised airliner, designated Model 18 by Lockheed, was converted from the fourth Model 14, one of a batch which had been returned to the manufacturer by Northwest Airlines after a series of crashes. The modified aircraft first flew in this form on September 21, 1939, another two prototypes being converted from Model 14s, with the first newly built Model 18 flying on February 2, 1940.[SUP]"
http://pediaview.com/openpedia/Lockheed_Model_18_Lodestar[/SUP]
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