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The Staff of SOH
Messerschmitts! nah they're not they're 'einkels...
- Thread starter bazzar
- Start date
bazzar
Charter Member 2018
No, not on the P. By the mid H series, around the H4, they were trying different retractable rear covers and from the H10 on they had fixed rear facing windscreens with a port for the gun. the late H20s on had a "proper" rotating turret with a much bigger MG131 machine gun. Of course, just to confuse further, many examples were upgraded in the field or returned to the factories for modification. The gondola came in for quite a bit of variation too.
BTW, although alphabetically, P falls later than H, with the Heinkel, the P series was earlier than the H series. Confusing.
I guess so,lol
Very interesting, I never knew that!
warchild
Charter Member
yeahh. Me neither. it was quite the eye opener.
bazzar
Charter Member 2018
The CASA 111 is based on the late H series and is significantly different to the original Heinkels. For example, there is only one control column in the Heinkel, which swings over to the engineer's position, a folding seat being used for the "co-pilot". Even then, there were no rudder pedals or throttle controls so any "co-pilot" duties would have been restricted to keeping the bomber level.
The CASA (or at least the example in the video) also lacks the top hatch and aero screen. This was used together with the seat riser to get the pilot's head above the fuselage roof for forward vision in takeoff and landing and in the event of anything obscuring forward view. The whole seat mechanism, pedals etc. are lifted up by pulling on a handle. Forward of the hatch is a folding aero screen which deflects airflow away from the pilot's head. In the cockpit, the pilot had several special devices attached to the cockpit framing for lining up in turns and acquainting themselves with the centre line of the aeroplane. I guess the wire strop in the video may be particular to the Spanish-built CASA.
I would disagree that the Heinkel was a "primitive" aircraft. Far from it. In its day, it was very much the latest in traditional German quality technology. Beautifully designed and built with the very best materials. What the Spanish built under license may well be very different of course!
The CASA (or at least the example in the video) also lacks the top hatch and aero screen. This was used together with the seat riser to get the pilot's head above the fuselage roof for forward vision in takeoff and landing and in the event of anything obscuring forward view. The whole seat mechanism, pedals etc. are lifted up by pulling on a handle. Forward of the hatch is a folding aero screen which deflects airflow away from the pilot's head. In the cockpit, the pilot had several special devices attached to the cockpit framing for lining up in turns and acquainting themselves with the centre line of the aeroplane. I guess the wire strop in the video may be particular to the Spanish-built CASA.
I would disagree that the Heinkel was a "primitive" aircraft. Far from it. In its day, it was very much the latest in traditional German quality technology. Beautifully designed and built with the very best materials. What the Spanish built under license may well be very different of course!
Bazz you took quite a challenge, when you decided to do the P version. I went trough all I have about the He.111 and found some shots from the cockpit from the very early versions (A-G versions). There are several quite confusing pictures from the cockpit from the different H versions, but I couldn't find a single photograph from the cockpit of the P2 version.
But there is always good news as well. There is a fully restored He 111 P-2 (Wknr. 1526, Stkz 5J+CN) in the Norwegian Armed Forces Aircraft Collection. I'm afraid its the only Heinkel He.111 P which still exists, so I couldn't find anything closer for you.
Cheers,
Huub
But there is always good news as well. There is a fully restored He 111 P-2 (Wknr. 1526, Stkz 5J+CN) in the Norwegian Armed Forces Aircraft Collection. I'm afraid its the only Heinkel He.111 P which still exists, so I couldn't find anything closer for you.
Cheers,
Huub
bazzar
Charter Member 2018
Actually Huub, there are quite a few excellent reference books available on the P series. We have most of them and also some awesome original German manuals and documents, even the build notes and diagrams from the factory. The Norwegian P2 is an excellent source of reference but is missing a few items. There are a couple of videos taken from original German movies of the Heinkel factory, designing and manufacturing the HE111 a valuable offer from one of our beta test friends who had a great friend (90+) who flew them. Although no longer with us he did leave much detailed info and pics etc. So, not as difficult as you may think!
That's good to hear Bazz. I already thought you should have quite some information, otherwise you most likely wouldn't even have started a project like this.
But never expect a smooth ride. I'm convinced surprises will pop-up somewhere. Production models which are slightly different from prototypes, pictures which include field modifications, wrongly tagged pictures, etc.
And thank you for doing this very interesting model.
Cheers,
Huub
But never expect a smooth ride. I'm convinced surprises will pop-up somewhere. Production models which are slightly different from prototypes, pictures which include field modifications, wrongly tagged pictures, etc.
And thank you for doing this very interesting model.
Cheers,
Huub
YoYo
SOH-CM-2023
We'll offer a choice. One with historically accurate and the other along the lines of what IL2 do with their axis aircraft.
Bazz, see this:
https://www.game.de/en/blog/2018/08...s-of-unconstitutional-organisations-in-games/
Alan_A
Charter Member
Yes we did see this. We will still provide the option though for those who prefer an alternative.
I'm in favor of historical accuracy but it's good of you to offer the option.
If I might make an additional request - is it possible to include a paint or two of a captured aircraft in allied colors? My own commitment to historical accuracy is such that that's the only way I fly Luftwaffe aircraft, since I wouldn't have been in a position to operate them otherwise. I know I have the option of waiting for one or another of our repainters to provide one, but some other developers have included the allied option in the past (e.g. Classics Hangar with an RAF FW-190A, A2A/Aircraft Factory with an RAF Uhu). Hope it's something you'll consider.
https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/attachments/he-111-captured-jpg.196111/
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net...ne_1945.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20131127164201
bazzar
Charter Member 2018
Absolutely. We are including the RAF captured livery as part of the pack. It is interesting that the Air Ministry published British pilots notes for the type (together with others like the BF109) to assist RAF pilots flying these machines. I have a couple of them.
Whether it is true or not, I also understand that these were produced for aircrew so that in the event of being downed and "borrowing" an HE111 that was lying around, they could fly it home...lovely idea but I somehow doubt its authenticity.
Whether it is true or not, I also understand that these were produced for aircrew so that in the event of being downed and "borrowing" an HE111 that was lying around, they could fly it home...lovely idea but I somehow doubt its authenticity.