Microsoft Flight Simulator: Reno Air Races Teaser - gamescom

well - what do we know. There is added content coming that will include some aspects of modern air racing. Some planes, a venue, and other elements TBD.

What further development there will be? who can say. They claim to have spent two years developing the elements they have shown - in partnership with existing developers.

I think I'll wait at least a year at least, before evaluating this. Seems to be like everything else in MSFS - an ongoing, evolving or 'living' element and not final concrete piece of work.
I think that's the mistake most of the community makes when evaluating or expressing concerns over this whole MSFS thing. They aren't producing a complete, finished widget for mass consumption - like a car or washing machine..instead they are crafting a massive work of art
that - long after you have taken it home - they are still coming over to your house periodically in the form of 'updates' and adding more clay, and paint, and lights, and sound effects to...possibly for the life of their product.
You didn't so much buy a flight sim as you bought a project - you bought into a concept, you purchased an organism that is still growing and changing in real time.
Trying to evaluate such a thing in any other context is not adequate.
 
Personally, the actual racing bit is completely secondary to me. I'll try it and play it a few times but the real draw to me is the aircraft. I get that it won't be on par with the beloved A2A Warbirds or even the Lotus Sim L-39, but the idea of having 40 aircraft, uniquely modeled and textured with all their own little quirks like handwritten notes in the cockpit to label gauges and scuff marks on the fuselage etc is very exciting to me. I love the idea that when I'm flying Strega, I'm flying Strega, not a factory fresh Mustang with a Strega livery.
 
Bomber_12th said:
It seems that in fact A2A played quite a small role in the overall Mustang coverage(?), since there are ten very different cockpit models and ten very different external models, and Scott Gentile mentioned that A2A only worked on just the internal models for two of them (Strega and Miss America). I have to say that the T-6 models look very much like the A2A FSX/P3D model, so I wonder about any involvement there?Over the span of the ten Mustangs included, the POF P-51A can be considered "stock" (despite numerous modern changes within the cockpit), and 5 of the P-51D's can be considered "stock" (despite numerous modern changes within the cockpits) - of course none come close to military stock wartime Mustangs, but through those models provided, can easily provide a very accurate base for perhaps 120+ of the P-51D/K's flying today. "Miss America" and "Goldfinger" have some distinct external modifications for speed, while "Strega" and "Voodoo" of course have some very radical modifications for speed. "Man O' War" sports two Spitfire mirrors, as the real example does, and "Dolly/Spam Can" sports the dual VLR AN/ARA-8 antennas on the spine, as the real example does (it's missing the AN-104 antenna below the nose/cowl, as the real one also doesn't have it fitted - according to someone I know at Planes of Fame, they had it fitted briefly, but there was a problem with the mounting not being secure enough and they were forced to remove that antenna mast).I've noticed in the latest video that some of the views of the Mustangs were shot at earlier stages in development than others, as I've noted some things being corrected/changed about them from one shot to another.As someone who has spent well over a decade deep into all things Mustangs, especially those flying today, I really appreciate the level of attention to detail in depicting each example individually accurate, with so many details I've come to know those aircraft by. For most Mustangs flying today, I can identify them quite quickly just by a photo of the cockpit (even without the registration on the panel), as they each often have their own character and individual detail traits just in the cockpit, and this product captures each one incredibly well! Having watched the old Jeff Ethell warbird checkout videos so many times over the years, including most importantly the one featuring the P-51D "Man O' War", I was ecstatic to see how accurate the cockpit has been recreated for that one in particular, down to each detail of the panel, the old radio stack, the Imron grey primer, and best of all the British-style spade grip - which is entirely unique to that one particular Mustang, and it looks exact to the real thing. It has the only stock panel of the P-51D's included. It's amazing in itself, the wide span of vintage (1960/70's) to modern avionics throughout all ten of the Mustangs, so that each one is spot-on the real deal (not to mention the ten different T-6's, ten different L-39's, and ten different Pitts biplanes, each with their own individual cockpits and types of avionics, instruments, etc.). There was a butt-load of work involved in putting all of this together!I was originally excited about painting the D-models when the product is released, but I'm perhaps even more excited now about getting the chance to put some paint on the P-51A!Also, personally I couldn't care less about the racing aspect, I just want the planes!
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Well stated! For those who are disappointed, there is no forced purchase for this expansion pak as far as I can tell. Sure are a lot of airplanes and scenery for $60. Especially when some of the single purchases are $30 and more. I can only hope for playback, flyby features with this offering. - d
 
Yeah, I'm certainly not going to complain. I was shocked they were doing that many planes, that accurately. Talk about appealing to your core users -- I can only imagine what a small percentage of the audience cares about the accurate cockpit differences between the different planes. But for those of us in that tiny minority, wow, are we pleased! When this was first announced, I wouldn't have been surprised (or even disappointed) if there had just been one model of each plane. This package is an air racing fan's dream in many ways, even if it doesn't hit every aircraft type that plays a big part.

As a total aside, ever since I was reading aviation magazines as a kid, I've hated what they do to historic aircraft when making racers like Strega, Rare Bear, Precious Metal, Red Baron etc... I wish the race rules had been established to set the class in such a way that the airframes wouldn't be so highly modified from their historical design.
 
Maybe I am wrong but I suspect the systems depth of the Gold Racers will be mostly left out, for example: the Boil-Off Radiator Systems to keep the Nitrous Oxide boosted engines cool which have a very finite supply of coolant, and the many other quirks of operating any engine at that high of power. Then again, it could simply be added into it on the failures list I suppose. I am actually enthusiastic about this as I have followed Reno for 35 years. I do hope they eventually create an AI mission for the races for those of us who rarely to never go MP online with this sim. I will be happy just running the course in a qualification run just trying to keep outside the pylon corners.
 
I'll probably go for the $20 basic - do we know which planes are included in that?
I can see in the thumbnails that there is one of each but not which exact ones, but not sadly the P-51A.
Cheers.
 
keithb77 said:
I'll probably go for the $20 basic - do we know which planes are included in that?
I can see in the thumbnails that there is one of each but not which exact ones, but not sadly the P-51A.
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You'll be able to buy each plane individually as well. Though at $20 for the basic and $10 for the P-51A, you're halfway to just getting the full bundle, which is a pretty amazing bargain.
 
If there is no way to buy any of these planes independently from others, then I probably won't buy anything at all. The full pack is too expensive and the light pack is too incomplete.
On top of that, all of these planes will have very simplified systems and flight models just like any other default planes.
 
You'll be able to buy any individual plane for $10.

As for the simplified systems and flight models, did you see the panels in the videos? And the devs spent a fair amount of time describing the flight model enhancements in the latest dev update.
 
However - Jorg did say that all aircraft within each class would use one and the same flight model in PvP competition - to keep the races 'fair' and subject to pilot flight capability - rather than have some planes be 'better' than others.
So for instance - in a P51 class heat in a PvP or players vs players race - all of the P51's would use exactly the same flight model. This would prevent the eventuality where all players want to fly only one of the Mustangs, and no one will fly certain others.
Anyone who has flown air combat online knows what that's like. Going back to Il2 Sturmovik days - no one wanted to fly the Allied aircraft because the broad perception was that the Axis fighters' performance was far superior.

The only time the aircraft (of each specific type) will share the same flight cfg. is during these multiplayer races - outside of that feature they would have their own specific characteristics and capabilities.
 
That would make practicing a bit tough. You'd need to know which plane's FM is being used so that you can practice with the right one. Otherwise, it would be like practicing for the Indy 500 by driving a Camaro.
 
So the beta started on Friday and I've had some time to get some races in, I've completed 6 races so far (3 in the L-39, 1 in the P-51, 1 in the Texan and 1 in the Pitts. Here are my initial thoughts, but bear in mind that the aircraft are not complete yet, the focus of the beta is to test the network and multiplayer functionality and it is not possible to fly in Free Flight. You start and finish in the air, so I have not taken off or landed in any of the aircraft (aside from the Pitts, for some reason that one does start on the runway) nor have I started or shutdown any of the aircraft.

The racing: I enjoyed it more than I expected to, basically everyone joins a "lobby" which is on the runway at Reno Stead, lots of great static and animated scenery, the sounds of crowds of people and the narrator over the loudspeaker are a nice touch, occasionally you will hear a P-51 or an L-39 fly by, and the ten aircraft of that class are lined up in a staging area and you cycle through them and select the aircraft you want to use. Once you have selected an aircraft, your aircraft begins taxing to the runway and takes off, it's a cinematic similar to what you see when you start a flight on the runway. Once the race starts, there is 1 qualifying lap and then the race begins. Starting order is of course determined by your qualifying time. It's pretty much exactly what you would expect, you race around the pylons and try not to die. There is no complex engine management, I basically pushed my throttle to the firewall and kept it there. You will be penalized on time if you are flying too high or you miss a pylon. There is a HUD makes the pylons easier to see that you can toggle on or off before each race. If you crash into someone, or if someone else crashes into you, you are both "reset" near to where the crash happened a little further back on the course. Wake turbulence is definitely a factor, especially in the P-51. It can be VIOLENT at times. I thought it was pretty well done, other people say it's too much. Not to brag or anything, but I won all 6 races that I participated in so I didn't spend much time behind other aircraft. Once all aircraft have finished, there is a little menu that pops up showing how everyone placed and their scores and your ranking on the worldwide leaderboard. That's pretty much all there is too it.

Personally I think it's a fine compromise between "simulation" and "arcade" style racing. The flying is difficult enough that I think most people will be thankful that you don't have to worry about water injection or whatever. Let's be real, we know the kind of system depth Asobo's aircraft have, some people are ok with it, some people want more depth, the aircraft in Reno Air Races DLC is on par with what Asobo has done so far.

The aircraft: I'll say again, these aircraft are not finished yet, you start and finish the race in the air, my first impressions are based off that. That said, the 3d models are the best Asobo and friends have produced so far. Absolutely mind-blowing level of detail. Everything just looks incredible, from the wiring behind your seat to the scuff marks on the rudder pedals, the texturing of different materials on another level here. The sound, another one of Asobo's strengths, is in great form here. You can really hear the drag in these aircraft when you are banking hard and it is instrumental to avoiding a stall at high speeds, you really get a great sense of how close to the limit you are based on audio feedback alone. The sounds in the cockpit and outside the aircraft are all fantastic, the flybys sound great and yes the Texan does have it's distinctive roar and the P-51 will whistle (though my understanding was that the whistle is caused by air moving through/over the gun ports and I can't imagine any of the aircraft racing would still have them). I enjoyed flying them, they behave as I would expect their real life counterparts to, I've never flown an airplane so I don't really have anything to compare it to, but the things you would expect to happen did. The Mustang is heavy and powerful, you do not want to be stuck behind one, especially on sharp turns. The L-39 is fast and agile but if you aren't thinking two steps ahead the throttle lag will bite you in the ass. The Texan likes to drop it's left wing when banking so on the sharper turns you'll want to apply some right rudder and anticipate the drop when you are coming up to the pylon. The Pitts is a squirrely little thing compared to the others and requires quite a bit of rudder control to maintain its line. It seems like there are 9 "official" aircraft and one factory fresh aircraft in each class. The factory fresh P-51 is called "Speedy Tit" and that made me giggle because I am a child.

Overall I'm pretty impressed with what I've seen so far, it's pretty much exactly what I expected it to be. For $60 that's $1.50 per aircraft, or $15 an aircraft, however you want to see it, I'm very happy with that price point. I barely touched anything besides the throttle, I don't know anything about the system depth or the takeoff characteristics or anything like that, I know how they feel to turn left going as fast as possible and as low as possible. They look great, they sound great and they feel great racing around the pylons at Reno. Keeping that in mind if anyone has questions I'll try to answer them as best I can. There are plenty of YouTube videos now showing off the races and the aircraft as there is no NDA for this beta test.
 
Tom Clayton said:
That would make practicing a bit tough. You'd need to know which plane's FM is being used so that you can practice with the right one. Otherwise, it would be like practicing for the Indy 500 by driving a Camaro.
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well - I didn't say I loved the idea - but that is what he said.
and to be honest with you I think he has a point. In online competition the number one complaint you hear (as you probably know) is about 'fairness'...ad nauseum
Also - there are only three rules in air racing Reno style, Go FAST, Stay tight to the pylons, and don't hit the ground or the other guys.
This is a game for public consumption - it isn't Reno...so it has to be as easy as they can make it without (hopefully) embarrassing themselves.
I have not flown the beta myself so others will have to try the various Mustangs in these races and report back, but I always expected it to look real good but lack fidelity to the actual thing in more than a few ways.
It should be fun when it's released and I plan to try it then for 20$ that's an easy decision. If it Is fun and the trade offs are ok I'll probably get the full package.
 
Yeah, as long as the flight model is acceptable, I'm going to be flying the wings off of that P-51A! Every time I see/think of the P-51A, I think of Gerry Beck too, and his "homebuilt P-51A", which of course was nothing short of a true P-51A (save for a few D-model parts in the wings that almost no one would notice).

43-BeckA_00436_cf1.jpg


Having tried the current beta, it is a very simplified package right now, including the flight dynamics - even the exterior textures being used for the P-51D in the beta (the only one I've looked at) aren't the same nor the same format/configuration as the textures for the release version variants. The beta is currently setup only to test the server and racing experience.
 
Bomber_12th said:
I was originally excited about painting the D-models when the product is released, but I'm perhaps even more excited now about getting the chance to put some paint on the P-51A!
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I was hoping you'd say that as I'd love to see N51Z - both as "Shanty Irish" #6 as raced at Reno 2017 and in her XP-51 1039 scheme!
 
Handbag87 said:
I was hoping you'd say that as I'd love to see N51Z - both as "Shanty Irish" #6 as raced at Reno 2017 and in her XP-51 1039 scheme!
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Despite that one being rather an oddity (too much P-51D still remaining in it), I do like the polished XP-51 finish/paint scheme.
 
Since I'm not really doing any painting for MSFS, I wouldn't be disappointed if this one showed up, even though it's an F-6:

7Sxcvo9.jpg
 
I think I read somewhere that upon purchasing the Reno add-on & gaining access to all those aircraft, I will be able to fly them anywhere in the World, not just at Reno?
Could someone confirm that?
Thank you
T43
 
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