Model Design

[Lionheart]

Francois has been busy. He runs his own sim business, is an editor for several magazines, runs with a running group, plays tennis in competitions, overlooks sim payware projects, and is currently creating a gigantic 'Normandy WWII Landing Scenery' package complete will all the landing craft (ships) and things. (And he and his lovely wife tour the country sides on their motorcycle as much as humanly possible).



But... Francois knows about how to compile scenery from Sketchup where we do not.



So, did you win that last Tennis match?

 

[Grafmann]

Keep at it

OleBoy,

Nice to see you are still making progress, keep at it, you'll get there. The only other thing I thought of in the meantime was a reminder that Google Sketchup can create an Outer Shell which you might use to simplify your model. I wasn't sure if you had a lot of interior features in the upper room for example, that you might want to delete if you just wanted to look at your hanger from outside. After looking at it again though, it seems obvious that you do want to be inside looking out, at least on the bottom level anyway, so I don't think you'll get much benefit from creating a shell. It looks like you are on a better track now rebuilding the model & deleting unnecessary details.

Also thanks to Mark (Roger-Wilco-66) et all for the correction, & teaching me (us) something new, it's always appreciated.

 

[Francois]

LOL Bill !!! Yes, we won !

As for geting Sketchup into FSX: I have the best teacher and coach you could possibly imagine: Arno himself !

Now to learn all the rest of the design stuff......... if you don't hear from me in 10 years or so, then call the cavalry!

 

[OleBoy]

Getting closer

I seem to be having some trouble. The model starts to export from SU as a .DAE file, then crashes at 57%.

I don't understand. I don't think I'm overlooking anything? The model is very very minimal for poly/vertices. I'm wondering if it has to do with my textures and how many of them there are. They're all of different sizes (custom) and not on one or two sheets. Should I incorporate them all together? I dred doing it that way. Sketchup is not that friendly. Having them all on one or two texture sheets (and applying the textures) will be like finding a needle in a hay stack! Are there any other ways of doing the textures to minimize them?

 

[Francois]

Not sure of other ways but to have all kinds of separate texture sheets. I put mine on just one 2048 x 2048 sheet and apply them from there. It does mean you have to plan this ahead or do the entire texturing anew ...... :-(

The model does not look so complex that it should have problems exporting. How many different textures do you have?

 

[OleBoy]

There are 29 textures in all. Each surface being separate. Is this the reason it will not export?
I played things safe as I created my textures. I saved them as PSD for each surface. Easily transferable to one or two if need be. Then the re-mapping. The master template size is 4096x4096 that I'm currently working from. (2048x2048 is likely best.) Keep in mind that I'm learning by trial and error.

After pulling a few textures off the template and onto the model, I'm finding that the textures are real blurry. I thought it could be related to the way the file was saved.
I ran several tests, saving it differently each time. The formats tested were, PSD, PNG, and JPEG. Each time the images were very blurry on application.
Is there a particular way the templates need to be saved in, so photo-real clarity is obtained?

One more thing. Windows. I would like to have the appearance of actual glass in the frames like aircraft. Is this possible? Please share the procedures for the application.
I'm sure there's more I want to reflect on. I hope once I get the textures re-mapped I'll be seeing the export process go without a hitch.

Dimus, email received. Very impressive. :salute:

 

[Grafmann]

Texture Size ?

I'm not sure if this will solve the problem, but I seem to recall reading somewhere that the maximum texture size for a SketchUp model was 1024. This may be requirement for models that are exported to show up in GoogleEarth (to keep model size small) rather than a limitation within SketchUp itself.

Anyhow, in modeling my house I used 16 textures. Since my digital camera captures images about 3 times larger, I saved a copy & reduced them all to 1024 maximum (wide or tall) with the other dimension proportionate to keep the aspect ratio the same, & they were all .jpg format. I did this before I used them as textures, & of course had to drag to match the corners as normal in SU . It was a bit of work, & tedious, but manageable. With 29 textures you'll have more work than I did. The textures were still pretty sharp, I didn't experience the blurry problem you did. I was able to export to .dae without any problems.

Again, I'm not sure if this is what caused the problem at all, just offering what help I can.

As far as the window glass goes, I know you can assign one of the "translucent" materials in SketchUp; but I have no clue how that will translate into FSX. You may be able to use transparent textures for the windows via the normal alpha channel .dxt or .dds methods used in FSX. You may have to export SU to .dae first, then alter the texture format with Martin Wright's DXTBmp tool, or you may just be able to alter it within the Material Editor while running it thru ModelConverterX. As always, make backup copies & experiment.

 

[scott967b]

There's a lot of stuff on fsdeveloper on how to do transparency for scenery objects, but it remains a complex area in particular if you want to see things through transparent windows, also how shadowing works There's a basic recipe for doing your material in MCX but you have to be mindful of things like the back faces.

scott s.
.

 

[OleBoy]

Lets see. I re-did the model, made sure there were no UN-needed areas within the model that did not define the outer shell only, and remade the textures.
All textures were applied from one sheet, size 4096x4096. The model size (SKP) went up dramatically from 19mb, to 87mb. That's not going to work. I'm still having export issues where SU crashes at 57%.
I then reduced the template sizes to 2048x2048 for a test. SU still crashed at 57% on export. I tried saving the texture templates as .JPG, .PNG, .BMP, and PSD. SU still continues to crash.
To further the testing I exported as 3DS fine. Amongst others that also exported without apparent problems. I was unable to test beyond export.

I was able to get the .DAE exported once. The file size was very small, but it did export, and imported into MCX fine. But, there were no textures being displayed on the model when it was displayed.
I also made sure that there were no anomalies prior to export. All cameras, shading guides, etc = OFF so they did not have the chance to get exported with the model. Nothing I try seems to work

Also, there are settings within SU that allow textures to be displayed in high resolution. Not exported as such due to Google model limitations only. This (I think) also affects .MDL files that are made for FSX.

This is frustrating to say the least. I can't seem to find an answer anywhere that's relative to the situation I'm experiencing.

Next phase, re-do the model a third time. Ground up renovation and applying the textures as I progress, export the model after each stage. There has to be a logical answer.

Just to be sure the download/install was not corrupt in some way, I will also re-download and re-install to try to cover all the possibilities.

 

[rdaniell]

"I was able to get the .DAE exported once. The file size was very small, but it did export, and imported into MCX fine. But, there were no textures being displayed on the model when it was displayed."

Ole Boy, when I export from SketchUp to my scenery project's file, it exports as a .DAE file. When I import the .DAE file into MCX, I don't get any textures showing either. But the textures are there. I then update the texture files from JPGs to DDS and do a drawcall reduction using MCX. I then export the file as a BGL to my scenery project's file. Everything is there including the textures. I then just follow the normal routine of putting the model in the add-on scenery. I finish by using ADEX to place the object. You might want to give it another try as I too was concerned that NO textures showed in MCX.

Oh, I don't use MDL files as I only use the object in a specific scenery add-on.

RD

 

[stiz]

I duly appreciate your offer Stiz. Although the model was already imported into 3DSmax. It's a godforsaken mess I tell ya! The only comment I can say to that is, I'm as green as an UN-ripe apple when it comes to modeling. It's not worth the time to dissect.

I was actually just gonna build over it. Offer still stands anyway

 

[OleBoy]

I will surely keep your offer in mind, Stiz. :salute:

I think I finally got the model to export correctly and with .DDS textures. Although the drawcalls are rather large. I would like to place it in P3D as this is my sim of choice.
Can anyone tell me what to use or how to go about "placing" it in the location?

Or maybe it best I ask in the appropriate forum or website?

 

[Dimus]

Excellent Oleboy! (Btw did you get my email?)

To place the object you must first create a bgl file. This I think is now possible with MCX, otherwise you can use other compilers like Librarycreatorxml. Then it depends on how you want it placed and what programs you use for object placement. I make airports so I use ADE. When doing an airport I have already created a folder in my Addon Scenery folder with two subfolders, "Scenery" and "Texture". Put the object bgl in "Scenery" and your textures in "Texture". Then use the ADE object library function to read and place the object in your airport. Once you compile the airport the object will show where you placed it. If you want to place your object on an existing or stock airport you can open the airport with ADE and add your object to it.

If you are not doing an airport then there are other object placement tools that you can use. I don't know them all but I have used SbuilderX in the past. With that you can create bgls that also have the info on the location you want the object placed. This bgl if dropped inside an enabled scenery folder will cause the object to show. Your textures should also be in a valid and enabled "Texture" folder.

Lots of infor on FSDeveloper on all these, but just ask if you need help.

 

[OleBoy]

Excellent Oleboy! (Btw did you get my email?)

To place the object you must first create a bgl file. This I think is now possible with MCX, otherwise you can use other compilers like Librarycreatorxml. Then it depends on how you want it placed and what programs you use for object placement. I make airports so I use ADE. When doing an airport I have already created a folder in my Addon Scenery folder with two subfolders, "Scenery" and "Texture". Put the object bgl in "Scenery" and your textures in "Texture". Then use the ADE object library function to read and place the object in your airport. Once you compile the airport the object will show where you placed it. If you want to place your object on an existing or stock airport you can open the airport with ADE and add your object to it.

If you are not doing an airport then there are other object placement tools that you can use. I don't know them all but I have used SbuilderX in the past. With that you can create bgls that also have the info on the location you want the object placed. This bgl if dropped inside an enabled scenery folder will cause the object to show. Your textures should also be in a valid and enabled "Texture" folder.

Lots of infor on FSDeveloper on all these, but just ask if you need help.

Dimus,

Things are a bit crazy in the RW and my time to continue the hanger project is intermittent. I've spent some time reading/testing different programs (SBX, ADE) and I find they are dependent on simconnect. Currently my flightsim is a mess due to this not working for quite sometime, so I can not do anything until it gets corrected. Which is happening real soon as I have two new SSD drives arriving tomorrow. I will be doing a complete reformat/reinstall. Unless there is a way to place the hanger by lat/lon manually as a quick test.

The tools I bought for use in FSX, are currently not P3D compatible.

 

[rdaniell]

Ole Boy, just open ADEX and then open the airport where you want to place the hanger. You can do this by using the open with bgl function. Then just manually place the hanger, compile and open FSX. The hanger should be there. Most likely it won't be exactly where you want it but, it will be in FSX. (I left out a few steps but, I expect you are proficient at modifying airports.)

I have one airport that I use to test my model objects. When I'm satisfied with it, I then place it at the airport where I want it.

RD

 

[OleBoy]

Ole Boy, just open ADEX and then open the airport where you want to place the hanger. You can do this by using the open with bgl function. Then just manually place the hanger, compile and open FSX. The hanger should be there. Most likely it won't be exactly where you want it but, it will be in FSX. (I left out a few steps but, I expect you are proficient at modifying airports.)

I have one airport that I use to test my model objects. When I'm satisfied with it, I then place it at the airport where I want it.

RD

An accomplished repainter, yes. A modeler, I can make something that looks the part and make the textures for. Anything beyond those are completely new territory for me. And I'll add, very frustrating to have to learn on the fly. I managed to get the model in P3D. There are no textures showing on it for some reason. Dunno why as the .DDS textures are in the texture folder under the scenery folder. And the scale is way too small.

RD?, interested in helping me (place it for me) get it where it needs to be? I'll send the .BGL and textures to your email. I'd be very grateful for your help.
I'd like it intermingled in my Orbx PNW at either Centralia/Chehalis, or KHQM. I don't recall if you have the Orbx stuff or not.

 

[Dimus]

In MCX you have to assign the dds textures to all materials using the material editor before exporting the model. A good idea is to put the dds textures in the right Texture folder in your install and then in MCX material editor point each one to that location and export once done. The texture name is close to the end on the long list of properties in the material editor. Each one you assign will turn checkered in the model view in MCX, don't worry, this is normal. It will look OK if you export it and reload the mdl or bgl.

 

[rdaniell]

RD?, interested in helping me (place it for me) get it where it needs to be? I'll send the .BGL and textures to your email. I'd be very grateful for your help. I'd like it intermingled in my Orbx PNW at either Centralia/Chehalis, or KHQM. I don't recall if you have the Orbx stuff or not.

Sure...Look in your p.m. box for my e-mail address. I don't have any Orbx stuff but I can put it at KHQM for you to look at.

RD

 

[OleBoy]

Email sent. One way or another, either/or. I would just like to physically "see" my model in fsim as it is in SU.
Your help is appreciated.

 

[OleBoy]

Thank you, Dimus. Thank you.

My first Sketchup model, finally makes it's way into my virtual world. This would not have happened without the help of Dimus wanting to help. I'm very thankful for that.
Getting something I created in the simulator has been on my mind for a couple years now.

Getting the model in the simulator was difficult for me. I seemed to have issues with the textures not showing. Dimus, being the kind, helpful type, offered to help.
I accepted that help in a desperate sort of way. Hoping someone with more knowledge could figure out, or fix the model to make it export as it needed to be.

Dimus, I think you had your hands full taking on my project. You never really implied so, although I know it had issues aside from just textures.
I will learn this process of modeling and getting it in the simulator. This is very addictive!

I appreciate your time spent helping (FIXING) my paintshop model. I'm ecstatic. :salute:

A few shots in Prepar3D.