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MS giving up FS : a contrarian view

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dominique

Charter Member
I am no mainstreamer by nature :jump:.

I see a lot of complaints about MS giving up the FS franchise and I, somewhat, fail to be moved by the tears shed or called to duty by the petitions thrown into the wind.

Allow me a contrarian view.What is the bottom line for me ?

I've been playing this game since 1981 and, willy nilly, it's been part of my life and I reckon it will till they take out the joystick from my cold dead fingers ... I am almost 60. In the years to come I'll have two excellent plateforms (9 et X) on which the cottage developpers will built up new marvellous toys. Aircraft, sceneries,utilities. These developpers themselves will get even better than they are now (and they are good!) as they will have more time to deepen their knowledge of the intricacies of the sims.

They will have a much better return on their knowledge/know how investment not having to change everything they know every 36 months to adapt MS marketing strategy promoting incompatibility to sell. And I will spend in the context of an approaching retirement (ie less money to burn) for stuff which will have a much longer lifespan than today.

Do I long for a FS11 ? Yes I do but I suspect that FS11 would've been far from what I want. An improved ATC and traffic system? You wish. A new air dynamics system ? Guess not. A new weather system ? Don't think so... A generalized Accusim ? Be serious. MS has brought up a lot of good tools, a lot of good games over the years but as often as not lacks a little imagination. They give us the DC3 after MAAM made it a success with simmers, the Beaver after Aerosoft landed it on our virtual lakes, the Mustang after Shockwave gave it to us (killing in passing the resources of the said small developpers) etc. (to be fair an exception to the rule with the wonderful FS9 DH Comet).

A reasonable guess is that FS 11 would've been a mix of an ironed out FS10 and addons like FSpassengers and a partial tile proxy system for large cities areas. And of course, FSX aircraft and sceneries would've been incompatible with the new iteration.

Our next sim. Google Sim 2 of course :icon_lol:. Hey, the built-in sim in Google Earth is of course laughable when you compare it to FSX. As is FS5 if compared to the present state of the art...
 
Interesting comments, Dominique. My only concern is an exodus of developers from the FSX scene to either other platforms or markets.

As computers get better at processing large volumes of data I can see us running one, two, or more separate programs side by side with FSX. And getting 30 plus FPS.

A true functional ATC that could deal with pilot requests will take such an application. A complete tile proxy service that handles real seasons with speed to make it invisible to the pilot would probly also take a separate program innerfacing with FSX.

I would love to see a Golden Wings version of FSX. Take away all the GPSs and VORs as well as large cities and airports. Let us experience the flying Ernest K. Gann wrote about so vividly and well. Or the Strick Fighters series ported to FSX

More scenry like Vancover and the upcommig Tongass Fjords X, Bill Womack and others are currently developing to make low level flying more realistic.

I am looking forward to the next couple of years in the world of FSX.
 
For the most part I agree with you dominique, except...

dominique said:
MS has brought up a lot of good tools, a lot of good games over the years but as often as not lacks a little imagination.
Click to expand...

On the contrary, I think too much 'imagination' is the root cause of the problems we've experienced in FSX, and previously in CFS3 - and interestingly enough, the end of the line for both genres. Allow me to explain by translating 'imagination' into management speak - the favored word is 'vision'. I cringe every time I hear the phrase 'corporate vision' (another oxymoron like 'military intelligence').

Development gets saddled with management's 'vision' of the next version of the product, a limited staff, and an impossible holiday season release driven deadline. And corporate culture being what it is, the development team doesn't dare to push back for fear of being perceived as incompetent. What the developers get is a deathmarch, and what we as customers get is a boat load of under-performing, bug-infested, unfinished 'features' (can you say dx10?).

If the corporation had the wisdom and courage to do a reality check before hand, we might all still be in business.
 
jmig said:
My only concern is an exodus of developers from the FSX scene to either other platforms or markets.

As computers get better at processing large volumes of data I can see us running one, two, or more separate programs side by side with FSX. And getting 30 plus FPS.

A true functional ATC that could deal with pilot requests will take such an application. A complete tile proxy service that handles real seasons with speed to make it invisible to the pilot would probly also take a separate program innerfacing with FSX.

I would love to see a Golden Wings version of FSX. Take away all the GPSs and VORs as well as large cities and airports. Let us experience the flying Ernest K. Gann wrote about so vividly and well. Or the Strick Fighters series ported to FSX

More scenry like Vancover and the upcommig Tongass Fjords X, Bill Womack and others are currently developing to make low level flying more realistic.

I am looking forward to the next couple of years in the world of FSX.
Click to expand...

The computers will indeed be better the more we go.The race between hardware and our flight simulator will, at last, be over for a time and the hardware will win !

It should thus be a strong incentive to offer new and more sophisticated products running with a smooth frame rate. A2A/Shockwave or Bill W. definitely show the way there. They will be more expensive but we will buy them anyway as they may have a longer life.

In 10 years, without FS11, FS9 or 10 may be very different that what we have now. Much more beautiful, much more complex. So lets stop complaining. So long FS11, welcome FS9+ and FSX+.
 
All I know is that for me, if it doesnt run smooth, like 12 to 15 FPS, then I cant fly it. If it has all these cool things that I cant turn on, (sliders), then what use are they? (bad, I know.. arrghh.. not saying which program it is though, and I still love it).

I think some people will go to XP9, and they really need help. I can see that sim turning a full 180 and the next edition being totally incredible. Its just sitting there waiting for the new technologies and a better interface system. But, I pray, they keep the frame rates easy and smooth.

I am fully for tile proxy or photo real terrain. That is the coolest thing I have seen since TrackIR and the VC. Right now, Google has the funds. They could possibly set up shop and create a cool sim and enter the simulation market in quick order. They have the world, all they need are the planes.. With all the people that have been learning to make things with their own 3D design program, the scenery addons would be instantaneous, like a huge storm.

That, and Google has a huge following. Just putting a Sim game (yep, thats how the people see it, a game), would by my guestimation, be a quick big hit..

Then they will need to run with the ball and stay ahead of the technologies and refine their product.


I hope someone does 'something'. Now is the time to start a product. Prices and costs have come way down. Soon the economy will be lighting back up again and thats exactly when you want to launch a new thing like XP10 or Google Earth Simulator....




Bill
 
I am not a developer...but will be working to become one, that is as soon as I learn to use Gmax. But...this is my take on the situation.

With MS's axing of ACES and the end of Flight Simulator for the foreseeable future, developers will now be able to fully delve into the depths of what can be done in FS9 and FSX, as I am sure that there is a lot that these two sims can do that has not been discovered yet.

I base this upon the breakthroughs that have taken place within CFS2 within the last year. Pilotable ships, diving submarines, surface to air rockets, a new world mesh that will bring CFS2's look very close to that of FS2004...actually, the mesh is an improvement over the stock FS2004 mesh and has made my nearly stock install look much better. CFS2, 9 years after its release, looks nothing like the combat flight sim that MS boxed and shipped.

Now that developers do not have to keep pace with new release after new release, they will be able to dig deeper into what FS9 and FSX can do, and may well discover ways of doing things that the original boxed version did not even hint at being possible.

Add to this the fact that in the next year or two, computer power will increase to the point that FSX...from what I hear is a bloated, resource-hogging monster....will be able to run as smoothly as FS9 and CFS2.

And, imagine the number of FSX packages that will become available as more freeware designers step up to the challenge of creating planes, helos, scenery, and effects for the sim.

Maybe not having a new sim for 4 or 5 years may not be such a bad thing. Time can to dig into a sim, to allow a deeper pool of developers to grow, and to allow computer power to catch up with the demands of the sims....take a look at what those factors have done for CFS2 and picture what they can do for FS9 and FSX.

OBIO
 
OBIO is right on target. With FSX with Accleration we have a good base for development. I've used DX10 and I wasn't impressed. What more Microsoft could have offered with FSX11 can be left to conjecture. But I doubt it would be much different from what we already have. The designer and developers of planes and scenery for FSX continue to amaze me, each one building on the other.
I, for one, am excited to see what the next few years will bring. I'm going to buy an extra FSX, just in case I lose this one.
 
I just hope that as new computers and operating systems are developed that we will be still able to run FS9 or FSX on them in the future.
 
lifejogger said:
I just hope that as new computers and operating systems are developed that we will be still able to run FS9 or FSX on them in the future.
Click to expand...

My current FS setup will run FSX without a problem under 64bit XP, and as I have no intention of switching to Vista I guess I won't be bothered with an OS Upgrade.
:whistle:
 
OK Time for my 2 cents....

M$ can jump into a lake......

I firmly believe that this is a wide open business for developers now,and exciting things will soon be happening to FS9 and FSX..

That being said...I own Vista Ultimate and XPPRO .... I will keep them forever as long as my sims need them....

So....What next great thing is soon to come?

Personally what I feel is lacking most is real sounds....Not the same old engine sounds...I have never flown in any type of aircraft where all you heard was the spinning of the prop or the whine of a jet compressors...

I want to hear all the ground noise ,the sounds that turbelence makes as you bump about , better roll out and touchdown sounds... But thats just me...

I have some FS9 sounds that were mixed with TrainSim sounds and I like them alot... Much more realistic to me.....
 
lifejogger said:
I just hope that as new computers and operating systems are developed that we will be still able to run FS9 or FSX on them in the future.
Click to expand...

With the now available Terabyte sized HDs, I suppose there's no difficulty in having a dual boot with Windows 7 and XP for instance if the i7 works with XP of course and that remains to be seen. I am not pessimistic though even if Xp would not take advantage of all the power of the i7. Txnetcop would know that better than me !

I wonder how FS9 will work under a 64 bit Window 7 on a i7 processor... I intent to check that sometimes in the months to come :engel016:.

As for the computers, there's been in the past few years a good downward compatibility of Intel based machines. Remains the fact that FS9 does not use multicores and both FS9 and FSx cannot benefit from SLI dual video cards... That barrier is here to stay and that's a shame.
 
Not long ago, (or so it seems) I got into the civilian FS scene when I bought FS9. I like to learn new things and apply that knowledge to various things I do, so naturally, I went with mudmoving.

Though I never really considred myself adept at it, I did manage to produce a couple airfields, and they're floating around out there in cyberspace somewhere, but then FSX came out and I was somewhat taken aback by the fact that all I thought I had learned with FS9 would now some how be defunct in X. Needless to say that put a big damper on my willingness to want to learn how to move mud in FSX being as how I knew 11 was on the horizon and that everything I'd learned would have to be relearnt for 11. The process seemed neverending for me as a novice mudder.

While I am saddened to think about the loss of upcoming improvements to the FS base, there is now good news to a degree for me behind that announcement.

The good news for me is, FSX may become a stable and longer lasting base with which to try my hand at increasing my knowledge in the moving of mud. So I'm in the process of trying to drag my interest of this out of the closet and I'm now currently investigating programs and ways and means to do this.
 
I wonder if the "tweakable" X-Plane will begin to gain greater popularity over the next few years...?
 
harleyman said:
I firmly believe that this is a wide open business for developers now,and exciting things will soon be happening to FS9 and FSX..
Click to expand...

That's the spirit !

harleyman said:
I have some FS9 sounds that were mixed with TrainSim sounds and I like them alot... Much more realistic to me.....
Click to expand...

Yeah there's something to be said for landing and blowing a steam whistle to hurry a pesky 747 in front of you out of the runway instead of doing a Go Around :costumes: !
 
Francois
Why would it ?
Click to expand...
....A speculative premise based on the continued development of X-Plane in a market without any competitor. On the other hand, X-Plane could also bite the dust....
....Sayyyy...what is this creek, and where are the paddles.....??<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->
 
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