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New Gotha bombers series thread

And now for some English Grossflugzeuge!

Hello Folks,
The English also had some "Grossflugzeuge", the most famous of which were the Handley Page and Vickers Vimmy bombers.

However, there were some lesser known models which are well worth modelling.
The DeHavilland DH10 Amiens Mk III and MkIIIa bombers, which I find have a very harmoniuos and attractive design,
and also the Blackburn RT1 Kangaroo Torpedo bomber, with its charismatic fuselage shape and long nose.

I have also updated these models with hollowed-out cockpits and gunner-wells. Here are some screenshots.
Ravenna is equipping the Blackburn RT1 Kangaroo for carrying bombs, depth-charges or a huge torpedo, and
uploads will be prepared in due course.

Cheers,
Aleatorylamp
 

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Pause to take breath...The Gotha.IV is ready but as yet there is only one DP. I am a bit time poor this week. Apologies Stephan. I am in the process of doing an alternative DP which makes use of the Gotha's wing racks. For some reason it didn't occur to me before that I could get more hardpoints by deleting the 4 used for the hindmost bombs and their racks, then using those hardpoints for 4 wing bombs on the existing racks.
I am working on a new set of wing textures the D.H. 10 so that might be a few days away. The loadouts for the Blackburn Kangaroo are reasonably accurate except for the torpedo. Blackburn did experiment with a centrline rack for the Kangaroo but it was never used operationally. The depth bombs used were so similar to the ones used at the beginning of the Second World War that I used the on we have in the library.
 
Hello Ravenna,

No hurry, indeed, for any of the planned uploads - take your time, you are doing a great job.
I realize that there are many small details to be attended to, and we mustn´t hurry our curry!

Moreover, it seems that the upload will be accompanied or followed by some exciting new
sceneries that kdriver is preparing for the Gothas, so it looks like it´s going to be great!

Cheers,
Aleatorylamp
 
Two more Gothas on the conveyor belt.

Hello All,

The workshop is very busy indeed these days!

Here a couple of screenshots of two more Gotha Grossflugzeuge that are on the conveyor belt,
planned for CFS2 upgrade. Ravenna and Kdriver will be working on textures and weapons.

They are the Gotha G.V, with more aerodynamic engine nacelles and inboard tanks, in hexagonal
conspicuous lozenge livery (anti-friendly fire), and then also the Gotha G.Vb in camo splinter lozenge
livery, with biplane tail and "Stossfahrgestell" landing gear to prevent nose-overs.

Cheers,
Aleatorylamp
 

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Happy to say that they fly very well in formation. Thanks Stephan!:applause:
More work on the textures later this week.
 
Hello Ravenna,
Thanks! I´m glad they fly well.
The textures on the G.V weren´t too bad, as they´d been quite well mapped on the Austro G.IV by Udo Entenmann.
The difficult part was getting a more even texture spread on the G.Vb, plus a couple of structural issues because of
the inceased parts count, but it seems to have to turned out quite well.
Good luck with the improved colouring of the textures! Thanks indeed for your cooperation!
Cheers,
Aleatorylamp
 
The other Grossflugzeuge

Hello Ravenna, Hello Kdriver,

After the upload success of the three Gotha G.IV Grossflugzeuge - download
numbers are already at 173 - not bad at all! - I was wondering whether the
Gotha G.II, the Blackburn R.T.1 Kangaroo, and the two DeHavilland Amiens
(MkIII and MkIIIa) would really be quite ready to upload, and perhaps even
the Gotha G.Vb. (Not the G.V, whose textures still need lightening up a bit).

The Dp files which I couldn´t do, for these 4 models, have already been very
nicely done by Ravenna, and the .air file and Aircraft.cfg work very nicely.

Furthermore, there are no further texture complications on any of these models
needing any further work.

So, if you feel the models are ready, I´ll be glad to undertake corresponding uploads.
What do you think?

Cheers,
Aleatorylamp
 

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CFS2 Gotha G.II.zip

915415575949206888.jpg

A new entry has been added to Add-Ons Library, category CFS 2 Aircraft - World War I

Description: The Hotha G.II was Gothaer Waggonfabrik A.G.´s first own design by Hans Burkhart after the rather unusual Gotha G.1 Ursinus "Grosskampffluhgzeug"(large Battleplane). It was powered by 2x220 Hp straight-eight Mercedes D.IVs engines, and equipped with 4-bladed propellers. Max. Speed was 92 mph, and bombload was 300 Kg (660 lb). Ten units were built, and saw service on the Balkan Front. This design was further developed into the improved Gotha G.IV and G.V models.

This release features a new livery in brown/beige colours, for registration number 204/16. CFS2 flight dynamics DP files included, with weapons by Allen Downey, custom panel by Kevin Driver, most custom gauges by Martin Klein, two by Bastian Hundt and Horst Weingärtner.

By Stephan Scholz.

To check it out, rate it or add comments, visit CFS2 Gotha G.II.zip
The comments you make there will appear in the posts below.
 
Even more fun... Gotha G.I

Hello Folks,
...and the fun goes on.
Kdriver has just prodded me for another Gotha upgrade for CFS2: The peculiar Gotha G.I.

The Grossflugzeug Series started with the G.II through G.Vb, and was designed by Hans Burkhart,
but it wasn´t the first Gotha design. This was the G.I Ursinus, which Hans Burkhart didn´t like.

The G.I was a "Grosskampfflugzeug", a "Large Battle Plane", a twin-engined biplane, with two
172 Hp Mercedes D.IIIs engine mounted on the lower wings. The fuselage was on top, between the
top wings, and it had twin-fins on the tailplane. Top speed was just under 82 mph, and bombload, 330 lb.

The advantage of this rather outlandish layout was that bombs were easy to load, but nose-overs didn´t
have a good result for the crew. It was armed with fore- and aft firing machineguns, and had a crew of three.

Here´s a screenshot from the original FS98 version - I hadn´t put in a crew at the time, and I never made an
upgraded model for CFS1, so it will require some extensive re-work, but it´s on the conveyor belt!

Cheers,
Aleatorylamp
 

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Hello All,
All that work just to have them as AI enemies?
But well, I suppose it adds to the ambience.

I don´t know how good the defences are on AI versions of these models.
Perhaps they should be made more difficult to shoot down...

Cheers,
Aleatorylamp
 
Gotha G.1

Hello Folks,

The layout of the G.1 Ursinus design not only allowed bombs to le loaded more easily under the lower wing, but also offered a clear field of fire all-round from the top. The attached scan shows that contrary to what I expected, the pilot sat in the rearmost seat, not in the middle. I don´t know how accurate this drawing is, as the rear seat would allow a better defence of the lower rear.

Update Confirmation on 2nd Gunner´s position: I checked, and in effect, it seems that in case of a second gunner, he would be placed in the middle.

Update on rudder shape:
On this drawing I corrected the rudder. Originally it showed a rudder which went down lower than the elevator, and was horn-balanced underneath. This way it would have had a smaller elevator between the rudders, with 2 small elevators on outboard sides. I have only found one photo with these rudders, but it refers to an improvement in the G.I design which was not produced in any numbers and apparently did not see any service. Photos of production aircraft all only show rudders slanting upwards to make space for elevator movement.

Anyway, the attached drawing shows the bombs: It can be seen that bombs were not only loaded under the wing. There are photos showing two hanging from the nose in the front. They also look fatter than the slim French hand-bombs, and look heavier.

Update: Bomb weight correction.
After further research, it seems bombs were 20 Kg bombs. How would the 330 lb (150 Kg) bombload have been distributed?
Perhaps 7 x 20 Kg. (5 under the wing and 2 x 20 Kg at the nose), althought that would make it only 140 Kg...

I wonder if anyone knows if there is a 20 Kg bomb .bgl with this shape.

Another question:
Regarding the .air file, it appears that one thing is how the plane flies as a piloted plane, with the CFS1-type airfile (rather than a mere FS98 one where all the engine needs is an entry for Hp), and another is how it flies as an AI plane.

Does anyone know about AI flight dynamics? I suppose it would also need tweaking the Dp files with more boxes for more detailed damage points. The Gotha series apparently was not easy to shoot down, so it would be useful to keep that in mind too.

Cheers,
Aleatorylamp
 
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Adjusting Gotha G.I Ursinus flight dynamics for CFS2

Hello Folks,
I´ve managed to get a good CFS2 .air file for the Gotha G.1 Ursinus!

Specs mention the 160 hp Mercedes D.III class 3 engine in military use, on the Gotha G.I,
as giving a maximum sea-level (500 ft) performance of:

81.25 mph with 172 Hp at 1420 RPM.

So far, I´ve managed to get the model very close:

82.3 mph, with 173 Hp at 1423 RPM.

The process is quite interesting, and I thought it was worthwhile to share on the thread.
I learnt how to do it thanks to Ivan from the CFS1 Forum, who patiently explained things I
didn´t always fully understand, how the airframe aerodynamics, the engine parameters and
the propeller parameters interact in the .air file. With time the pennies started dropping!

Then, there´s the conversion to CFS2, of course, and all the CFS1 performance has to be
adjusted again.

First I made a basic CFS1 .air file for the model to have a starting point.
Apart from the usual weights and dimensions, it needs data input for things like cylinder displacement,
compression ratio, propeller diameter and maximum. and minimum pitch angles (fixed 25-degree pitch for
the Gotha G.I). Also, convenient adjustments had to be made to the 25-degree pitch propeller graphs.

AF99 models compile directly into CFS1, and animated. Here the model file is processed first by TEX512,
to convert .xaf textures into .bmp format. This facilitates future enhanced texture repaints.
Then it is processed by the Model Patch, which makes weapons and crew visible in CFS2 when they are
added with Dp.

Ravenna and Kdriver helped me to learn how Dp fileswork.
It´s amazing what Dp lets you do, even as a beginner like me.

CFS2 needs a different Aircraft.cfg file, similar to the FS2002 one, but easier.
From the FS2002 Gotha G.I Aircraft.cfg written by FSAviator in november 2002, I copied the sections
needed by CFS2 into the new CFS2 Gotha G.I Aircraft.cfg.

Now comes the CFS2 tuning for the .air file, as the CFS1 .air file comes out with twice the power and
performance. This is where it gets interesting. I´m slowly getting a better at the balancing act between:

- Engine Torque and Friction Graphs.
- Propeller Efficiency and Thrust Coefficient Graph Tables,
- The three Drag entries in the Primary Aerodynamics Section,
- Wing characteristics.

ALL OF THESE affect Engine Horsepower, Engine RPM, and Aircraft Speed.

I can only do fixed-pitch propellers, or perhaps two-pitch ones, because they are easier. They only
use one of the 12 graphs in the graph table, whereas with constant speed propellers, you need to work
on quite a few more, in the range of pitch angles for a given CV prop.

Here are some screenshots of the different graphs. The propeller graphs show, enhanced with yellow boxes,
the single 25 degree pitch angle graph used by the Gotha G.I .air file.
You can see how I was experimenting with 20 and 30 degree pitch angles as well.

My propeller graphs are different from the ones that come with stock aircraft. The shape of the downward
slope on the right is more like the real ones. It appears that otherwise you get something like perpetual motion,
and also, it is difficult to get anywhere. It also seems to be important that both graphs cross the Zero point
at the same place.

This place depends on the circular speed at which the propeller blades corkscrew through the air, known
as the "J" factor. It depends on engine RPM, propeller diameter and Aircraft speed. Each graph in the graph table
represents one pitch angle. Each column is a "J" factor, and represents an aircraft speed.

Well... for example:

Importing the Gotha G.I CFS1 .air file into CFS2, I got way over 120 mph (I didn´t bother to find out by how much), with 305 Hp at over 1500 RPM.

So....

Step 1:
-------
- Reduce the Torque graph, and perhaps increase the Friction graph. This will reduce power and slow down the
engine (and consequently also the aircraft).
- Increase Zero Lift Drag to further slow down the aircraft. Once you get more or less the Hp and Speed you
want, you will see that RPM is too low.

Step 2:
-------
- Lower the Thrust coefficient graph (only for 25 degree pitch in this case). This will reduce the power
required by the propeller, and increase the RPM. However, Horsepower and aircraft speed will also rise.
- Reduce Propeller efficiency to slow down the aircraft. This may affect RPM and Horsepower too.
- You will probably need to re-adjust Drag, depending on the result.

Note:
-----
Zero lift Drag increases slow down RPM so parasitic or induced drag adjustments may help - or even
landing gear drag in case of fixed-gear aircraft!

Note:
-----
Reducing aircraft speed also reduces RPM.

Further Steps:
--------------
Depending on the result, make further small adjustments to the Thrust Coefficient graph.
If RPM is still too low, further apply minute reductions to the 25-degree Thrust graph.
If speed gets too high, make small reductions to the Propeller efficiency graph.
Simultaneously you may need to re-adjust Drag.

And so, go round in circles until you see that you are getting closer to what you want.

Important note:
---------------
I am by no means an expert, just a hobbyist who thinks he is learning something useful.
I´m sure there are others who are much better at this than myself.
Therefore, should I have made a stupid or erroneous statement, do tell me, and I will rectify!

Acknowledgements:
-------------------
>>>> Thanks to Ivan of the CFS1 Forum for showing me this, without which I would still
be making FS98 .air files. For these, all you need is a Horsepower entry, a propeller
diameter entry, a maximum RPM entry (I think), and a Zero lift Drag entry. You can forget
about cylinder displacement, engine torque and friction, and propeller graph tables!! But, it´s
not so much fun, and if you need a supercharger or a turbocharger, you can´t have one, so there! ;-)

>>>> Thanks to Ravenna and Kdriver for helping me out with the interesting Dp files, and with
other fascinating CFS2 delicacies like TEX512 and MdlPatch!

>>>> Thanks to simmers who have had the patience to read upto here!!

Cheers,
Aleatorylamp
 

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Friedl-Ursinus Prototype, and Gotha G1 Seaplane

Hello All,
In my post #76, I came to the erroneous conclusion, that the G.I with a different rudder shape on one of the drawings I had, was a newer variant which never saw production.

In effect, it wasn´t a newer variant, but the original 1915 Friedl-Ursinus Grosskampfflugzeug (large battleplane) prototype (whose rudder did not see series production).

Although the original design was for a float-plane, the prototype presented to the military for evaluation was a land-plane built by Oskar Ursinus and Helmut Friedl, equipped with 2 x 100 Hp Merdeces D.I engines.

This was before Gothaer Waggonfabrik acquired the license to build 18 Gotha G.I units, plus one Gotha G.I Ursinus Wasserdoppeldecker (Water-biplane), which saw WWI service two years after it was originally designed, and was apparently based in Zeebrugge on the Belgian coast.

Thanks to Ravenna and Kdriver for indicating the sources of this corrected information!

I also dug out my FS2002 model of the Gotha G.I Ursinus Water-Biplane, after to queries by Ravenna, and then
thought that as the Gotha G.I Ursinus design had originated as a biplane on floats, it would be interesting to
be able to try one out in CFS2, correspondingly updated and upgraded.
So, in due course, the Gotha G.I UWD will also acquire a new life!
wiggle.gif
untroubled.png


Incidentally, both the FS2002 Gotha G.I, and the G.I UWD flight dynamics were written by one FSAviator, and had very realistic and well-balanced flight behaviours. They readily convert directly into CFS2, once engine performance is sorted out, so they do fly very well indeed!!

Cheers,
Aleatorylamp
 

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Stephan, I just love the WWI German classifications for aircraft types. Wasserdoppeldecker and einsitzcommando are such visual classifications!
 
Gotha Wasserdoppeldecker

Hello Folks,
I was just inspecting some other Gotha twin-engined model biplanes I had built for FS98 years ago, and I found two other large, twin-engined water-biplanes, the Gotha WD7 and WD14.

In the case of the WD7 model, gunner´s well and pilot´s cockpit are already hollowed out, but this is not the case of the Gotha G.I, the G.I UWD, and also the Gotha WD14, whose gunner wells and pilot´s cockpit are only flat dark-grey disks, and which will require considerable work and time until they are ready.

So there is a slight change in plans.
I´ll be preparing the Gotha WD7 first, as it is now ready for conversion after combining the submerged portion of the floats with the un-submerged portion (CFS2 won´t need submerged elements to disappear below a certain speed for water landings). It only needs a CFS2 .air file, which I will base on the similar Gotha G.I Ursinus Wasseredoppeldecker.

Here are two screenshots. It is quite an interesting looking machine!

The Gotha G WD-7 was the first twin-engined seaplane ordered in quantity by the German Navy although only eight were completed. It was designed by engineers K.Rösner and A.Klaube of the Gothaer Waggonfabrik.

The prototype flew in 1915 and was allocated the marine number 119, the small production batch being numbered 670-676. It was also the first aircraft to be produced in any quantity by the Gothaer Waggonfabrik.

The WD-7 was employed for general marine reconnaissance at first, and later mainly as a trainer for the larger twin-engined WD-14 torpedo bombers that operated in the North Sea and the Baltic. The WD-7 was made of wood and fabric,
and powered by two 120 hp 6-cylinder in-line, water-cooled Mercedes D.II engines, being capable of a top speed of 69 kt.

Cheers,
Aleatorylamp
 

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