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The Staff of SOH
One thing that erks me a little ..
- Thread starter stiz
- Start date
bazzar
Charter Member 2018
There is a point worth noting here for those that don't have knowlege of the process. When Microsoft issued their development kits (known as SDKs) they only really included guide gauges for the aircraft depicted in the sim.
This leaves a huge amount of gauges like specific manifold pressures, superchargers, boost gauges and more that the designer must programme from scratch. It is one thing modeling up a gauge body, face and needle but another altogether different thing to make it work like the real thing. What used to be the preserve of C++ gauge designers working in 2D for FS9 and earlier sims has now become the duty of the designer to hard code programme the specific code into the output file of the model for 3D.
The way to test whether a 3D gauge functions as it should is to fly an aircraft "by the numbers" and see what you get.
Many good-looking add-ons do not depict climb rates and manifold pressures correctly for example, under specific conditions. Water temp, oil pressure and tachometers or ASIs are other examples. Even Microsoft got the P8 compass wrong in the way they depicted it working...
Spitfires and a lot of other British fighters had specific ASIs which required two or more 360s of the needle and variable scales . Also, tachometers of the period were sometimes calibrated to physically slow as the revs rose and the dial ran out of space for numbers!
You can't just model a gauge and shove it in expecting it to perform like the aircraft it represents. There's a lot more to it than that. Especially when the flyer turns up the wick on the reality sliders and starts flight testing a subject!
This leaves a huge amount of gauges like specific manifold pressures, superchargers, boost gauges and more that the designer must programme from scratch. It is one thing modeling up a gauge body, face and needle but another altogether different thing to make it work like the real thing. What used to be the preserve of C++ gauge designers working in 2D for FS9 and earlier sims has now become the duty of the designer to hard code programme the specific code into the output file of the model for 3D.
The way to test whether a 3D gauge functions as it should is to fly an aircraft "by the numbers" and see what you get.
Many good-looking add-ons do not depict climb rates and manifold pressures correctly for example, under specific conditions. Water temp, oil pressure and tachometers or ASIs are other examples. Even Microsoft got the P8 compass wrong in the way they depicted it working...
Spitfires and a lot of other British fighters had specific ASIs which required two or more 360s of the needle and variable scales . Also, tachometers of the period were sometimes calibrated to physically slow as the revs rose and the dial ran out of space for numbers!
You can't just model a gauge and shove it in expecting it to perform like the aircraft it represents. There's a lot more to it than that. Especially when the flyer turns up the wick on the reality sliders and starts flight testing a subject!
..and so do many not so good looking addons, so the point is?
Rick_Piper
Charter Member
Hi Bazzar
3d Gauges use XML to drive the animation and can be non linear
they are also not limited to 360 degrees of rotation
they can also be slowed down and tweaked to tell lies.
Regards
Rick
3d Gauges use XML to drive the animation and can be non linear
they are also not limited to 360 degrees of rotation
they can also be slowed down and tweaked to tell lies.
Regards
Rick
And what's with all the X's. UTX, FTX, REX, AFX, FEX etc etc etc.
BTW, one way to determine if a gauge is 3D or 2D is to zoom in on the needle point. As you zoom in on a 2D gauge needle you will see the bitmap pixels. Zoom in on a 3D gauge needle point and it will remain sharp as a tack no matter how much you zoom in.
BTW, one way to determine if a gauge is 3D or 2D is to zoom in on the needle point. As you zoom in on a 2D gauge needle you will see the bitmap pixels. Zoom in on a 3D gauge needle point and it will remain sharp as a tack no matter how much you zoom in.
bazzar
Charter Member 2018
Totally agree Rick. That was my point.
bazzar
Charter Member 2018
X for FSX one must assume...
Also, BTW, there are some extraordinary pieces of 2D work out there that look and run really smoothly. To the untrained eye, it would be difficult to tell what one has in the cockpit.
bazzar
Charter Member 2018
The point was to point out to those not in the "know" how tricky, gauge creation actually can be Mathias. I am sure you know too well.
The point was to point out to those not in the "know" how tricky, gauge creation actually can be Mathias. I am sure you know too well.
but 2d gauge creation isnt easy either, yet you dont see anybody useing, or ever have useing, "our super duper 2d gauge system" when 2d gauges where all the rage and vcs where still widley ignored
).
but 2d gauge creation isnt easy either, yet you dont see anybody useing, or ever have useing, "our super duper 2d gauge system" when 2d gauges where all the rage and vcs where still widley ignored
Stiz, as far as I can recall, expressions like highly authentic, precision, and high resolution, were already used for the flightsim I used to play on an Atari in the dark-ages. So what is exactly new apart from the choice-of-words?
All cars are objects with an engine and wheels, nevertheless every manufacturer tries to make us believe his product is unique.
And to be honest they are right up to a certain level, because even a cyclist like me, sees the difference between a Ferrari and a Ford.
Cheers,
Huub
bazzar
Charter Member 2018
OK, here's how a car ad might go without the hype:
Hi I'd like to show you the new Mogul XP3. It's nothing special, in fact it's pretty ordinary. It's got some wheels and a steering wheel which helps it go around corners. The paint's OK I guess and the upholstery's got sponge in it that can actually help soften the ride. The design is the same as last year but we've added some bigger headlights so you can see better at night. It costs $35,000 and we can deliver it on Thursday.
Interested now?
Hi I'd like to show you the new Mogul XP3. It's nothing special, in fact it's pretty ordinary. It's got some wheels and a steering wheel which helps it go around corners. The paint's OK I guess and the upholstery's got sponge in it that can actually help soften the ride. The design is the same as last year but we've added some bigger headlights so you can see better at night. It costs $35,000 and we can deliver it on Thursday.
Interested now?
Interested now?
Does it come with MegaFunSuperSexy3DFlow Pro? If not $32 000 is as high as I'll go.
Rick_Piper
Charter Member
Hi Bazzar
Sorry mate i missunderstood what you meant:isadizzy:
I thought you ment they where too limited
Regards
Rick
Sorry mate i missunderstood what you meant:isadizzy:
I thought you ment they where too limited
Regards
Rick
Henry
Retired SOH Administrator
i do believe with the outcome of fsx
new aircraft and developers
the freeware aircraft are getting fewer just a few designers
releasing freeware, the rest are commercial designers
once in the business of commerce
you have to have that little extra thing to make sales whether it be hype or
just plain ingenuity
so far i have never seen a freeware add on
advertising super duper stuff
here it is delete if ya dont like it.
once you are into a competitive market
and selling it takes a different approach
things like Accusim etc,
things have certainly changed over the past years
H
new aircraft and developers
the freeware aircraft are getting fewer just a few designers
releasing freeware, the rest are commercial designers
once in the business of commerce
you have to have that little extra thing to make sales whether it be hype or
just plain ingenuity
so far i have never seen a freeware add on
advertising super duper stuff
here it is delete if ya dont like it.
once you are into a competitive market
and selling it takes a different approach
things like Accusim etc,
things have certainly changed over the past years
H
bazzar
Charter Member 2018
Hi Bazzar
Sorry mate i missunderstood what you meant:isadizzy:
I thought you ment they where too limited
Regards
Rick
Oh no, quite the opposite matey. I have nothing but respect for those who can do that stuff. Gauges can make or break a model and put all that time and effort at risk. Another of the "dark arts"!
I met a guy a year ago, who is experimenting with 3D visual, applied to simulator gauges. Fascinating stuff. His background is CGI movie work and he is a fanatical FSX player. So far his results show great promise. And not an SDK in sight!