PAD Beech 1900C autopilot
- Thread starter KellyB
- Start date
aeromed202
SOH-CM-2014
Hi Bob. May I send you my cfg for scrutiny, or can I post it here? When I suggested a CoG shift, one thing lead to another and I found myself diving in head first. I'm pretty happy with the results but want some outside input.
For what it is worth, I have experienced this very same issue with a variety of aircraft. I also suffer from during level flight with the AP on, winds "knocking out" the ALT hold and the plane's nose either heading straight for the ground, or more often, the nose wanting to kind of "bob" downwards but only coming up about as high as level flight i.e. and never going into climb again to regain the altitude that's been lost and following a "down the staircase" type pattern into the ground eventually. Quite annoying if you have gone to get a coffee and find your plane has crashed and FS is reloading! One cure is to turn off "interesting" pre-set MS weather, real world weather or FTX weather, i.e boring clear skies seems to make the probem go away, indicating it must be an issue with the ALT hold being hyper sensitive to winds.
What I also found cured the level flight ALT hold problem and also allowed catching the GS for a good ILS landing was that if I "exercised" vigorously the pitch wheel I have set on my Saitek X-52 (did this during flight in the Sim), both problems seemed to go away. So there is also a controller calibration/sensitivty factor possibly in this. Maybe a long shot but thought I should mention this.
expat
What I also found cured the level flight ALT hold problem and also allowed catching the GS for a good ILS landing was that if I "exercised" vigorously the pitch wheel I have set on my Saitek X-52 (did this during flight in the Sim), both problems seemed to go away. So there is also a controller calibration/sensitivty factor possibly in this. Maybe a long shot but thought I should mention this.
expat
aeromed202
SOH-CM-2014
That suggests that maybe there is an fs.cfg line that can be edited that defines a range of conditions related to ILS capture. Or maybe it's not so direct but a sideways work around might present itself.
Sunny9850
SOH-CM-2024
I have never seen an aircraft disconnect the AP ALT hold all by itself that I can remember in FS. In my experience you might see the AP trim being unable to correct deviations in a timely fashion and the AC hunting up and down. Combine that with auto throttle and you might get a very interesting ride indeed.
If the AC does not have auto throttles and looses a large amount of altitude it would then try to climb back to the preset altitude at cruise power but at the default vertical speed in the cfg. This likely causes the AC to stall and the cycle begins all over.
Do you have an example of a freeware AC that does exhibit this ??
The pitch wheel scenario only makes sense if there is "flutter" in that control axis. If the AC was flying on altitude hold and then the AP is disconnected all trim settings remain unchanged until the pilot moves the axis. If however you leave the trim wheel in a nose down trim position for example and after the AP disconnect this axis fluttered a little in that position the trim would immediately take on that new setting resulting in a nose down movement of the AC.
Stefan
If the AC does not have auto throttles and looses a large amount of altitude it would then try to climb back to the preset altitude at cruise power but at the default vertical speed in the cfg. This likely causes the AC to stall and the cycle begins all over.
Do you have an example of a freeware AC that does exhibit this ??
The pitch wheel scenario only makes sense if there is "flutter" in that control axis. If the AC was flying on altitude hold and then the AP is disconnected all trim settings remain unchanged until the pilot moves the axis. If however you leave the trim wheel in a nose down trim position for example and after the AP disconnect this axis fluttered a little in that position the trim would immediately take on that new setting resulting in a nose down movement of the AC.
Stefan
Hmm. That is interesting that you have never experienced this but I am not surprised as this is the way it ought to work. I sometimes wonder if its because I like to pre-set everything on the ground - including VS and AT on modern a/c - and it is then caused by my
engaging ALT hold/AP while holidng the plane in a climb rate that will vary from that in the VS, or is not within the 500 pm rate which I recall reading somewhere was need for some planes/APs to work correctly.
The "flutter" point is also interesting. My X-52 seems to flutter in the prop RPM department - I can see it on all a/c fluctuating in the gauges. Don't know how to fix this as the stick is auto-calibrating and have plugged/unplugged several times alread with no apparent improvement. FYI - I do not have a button or control mapped to prop RPM - only use the Crtl + F3/F2 keyboard to adjust it. Don't know if there is a sensitivity/dead spot tweak in that case to try.
engaging ALT hold/AP while holidng the plane in a climb rate that will vary from that in the VS, or is not within the 500 pm rate which I recall reading somewhere was need for some planes/APs to work correctly.
The "flutter" point is also interesting. My X-52 seems to flutter in the prop RPM department - I can see it on all a/c fluctuating in the gauges. Don't know how to fix this as the stick is auto-calibrating and have plugged/unplugged several times alread with no apparent improvement. FYI - I do not have a button or control mapped to prop RPM - only use the Crtl + F3/F2 keyboard to adjust it. Don't know if there is a sensitivity/dead spot tweak in that case to try.
Yes, post away. Now that I'm on my own I have decided to relax all the copyright restrictions for freeware use.
I have not gone as far as to declare PAD's output in the public domain or to allow the work to be compiled into CD/DVD's etc. for sale.
Bob.
Sunny9850
SOH-CM-2024
Yes it should work like that, and does so in my real Saratoga if George is flying and conditions get rough enough for even a "lead sled" like her to get upset. I just have not experienced it in any sim AC, that is why I asked for an example you know where this happens so I can try to recreate it on my sim.
You may not have set an axis to the props, but FS may have decided to use one, like the small round buttons on the throttle. Usually there is not much you can do if you have actual flutter of the potentiometers in the controller. As the units are used things do wear eventually on the little wipers and they report a different value back to the sim without a real position change.
I have in the past used electrical contact cleaner......BUT that does not always work and may in fact make things worse. I know that it is not recommended by Saitek.
Cheers
Stefan
aeromed202
SOH-CM-2014
Thanks very much Bob. Will do sometime tonight. Look forward to comments.
Still think low speeds are good but this has a cruise speed of around 280 which I couldn't quite achieve without throwing off the low speed characteristics. Anyone please take this further because I don't know how much more I'm able to do. Areas edited were CG, MoI, flight tuning, contact points, flaps, power scalar, thrust scalar,
// © PREMIER AIRCRAFT DESIGN 2011
//Beechcraft B1900C for FS2004
// FSDS Design by Jean-Pierre Brisard. FD by Bob May
// 03 May 2011
[fltsim.0]
title=B1900C Frontier
sim=Beech_B1900
model=pax
panel=B1909
sound=padturbo
texture=frontier
kb_checklists=Beech_B1900_check
kb_reference=Beech_B1900_ref
atc_id=N575P
atc_parking_types=gate,ramp
ui_manufacturer=Beechcraft
atc_airline=regional
atc_flight_number=FR64
ui_type="B1900C"
ui_variation=Frontier Flying Services
prop_anim_ratio=1.015
description=B1900C_2_9. The Beechcraft 1900 was developed directly from the Beechcraft Super King Air 200. The 1900 first flew on September 3, 1982, with Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) certification awarded in November 1983
[fltsim.1]
title=B1900CC ACE
sim=Beech_B1900
model=cargo
panel=B1909
sound=padturbo
texture=ace
kb_checklists=Beech_B1900_check
kb_reference=Beech_B1900_ref
atc_id=N15GA
ui_manufacturer=Beechcraft
atc_airline=regional
atc_flight_number=ace190
atc_parking_types=ramp,cargo
ui_type="B1900C"
ui_variation=Alaska Central Express
prop_anim_ratio=1.015
description=B1900C_2_9. The Beechcraft 1900 was developed directly from the Beechcraft Super King Air 200. The 1900 first flew on September 3, 1982, with Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) certification awarded in November 1983
The 1900D uses two PT6A-67D engines, each rated at 1,279 shaft horsepower. The cabin is pressurized to up to 25,000 ft.
A total of 695 Beechcraft 1900 aircraft were built, making this regional airliner the best selling 19 passenger airliner in history.
description=The Beechcraft 1900 was developed directly from the Beechcraft Super King Air 200. The 1900 first flew on September 3, 1982, with Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) certification awarded in November 1983
The 1900D uses two PT6A-67D engines, each rated at 1,279 shaft horsepower. The cabin is pressurized to up to 25,000 ft.
A total of 695 Beechcraft 1900 aircraft were built, making this regional airliner the best selling 19 passenger airliner in history.
[General]
atc_type=BEECH
atc_model=190
editable=1
performance=Max speed: 330 kts (ground speed-zero wind) Cruising speed 280mph (true airspeed) at 20,000ft\nRange: 1720 nm\nService Ceiling: 25,000\nMax weight: 16,949\nPassenger: 19 + 2 crew
Category=airplane
[WEIGHT_AND_BALANCE]
max_gross_weight =17000.0
empty_weight =10474.00000
reference_datum_position = 0.00, 0.00, 0.00
empty_weight_CG_position = -0.500, -0.000, -0.800
max_number_of_stations =5
;Moments of Inertia
empty_weight_pitch_MOI =70615
empty_weight_roll_MOI = 49859
empty_weight_yaw_MOI =72841
empty_weight_coupled_MOI=0.00000
CG_forward_limit= 0.00
CG_aft_limit= 1.00
station_load.0= 170, -0.000, -2.000, 0.000, Pilot
station_load.1= 170, -0.000, 2.000, 0.000, First Officer
station_load.2= 598, -6.000, 0.000, -2.000, Passenger/Cargo
station_load.3= 1197, -0.000, 0.000, -2.000, Passenger/Cargo
station_load.4= 598, 6.000, 0.000, -2.000, Passenger/Cargo
[flight_tuning]
cruise_lift_scalar =1.5
parasite_drag_scalar =1.0
induced_drag_scalar =0.8
elevator_effectiveness=0.50
aileron_effectiveness =0.5
rudder_effectiveness=0.5
pitch_stability =1.2
roll_stability =0.97
yaw_stability =1.0
elevator_trim_effectiveness =1.00000
aileron_trim_effectiveness =1.00000
rudder_trim_effectiveness =1.00000
hi_alpha_on_roll=1.00000
hi_alpha_on_yaw=1.00000
p_factor_on_yaw=1.00000
torque_on_roll=1.00000
gyro_precession_on_roll=1.00000
gyro_precession_on_yaw=1.00000
[GeneralEngineData]
engine_type =5
Engine.0 =6.500, -8.600, -0.500
Engine.1 =6.500, 8.600, -0.500
fuel_flow_scalar =1.00000
min_throttle_limit=-0.25000
[propeller]
thrust_scalar =0.68
propeller_type =0
propeller_diameter =8.60000
propeller_blades =4
propeller_moi =31.61322
beta_max =45.00000
beta_min =15.20000
min_gov_rpm =25520.00000
prop_tc =0.00400
gear_reduction_ratio =17.60000
fixed_pitch_beta =0.00000
low_speed_theory_limit =80.00000
prop_sync_available =1
prop_deice_available =1
prop_feathering_available=1
prop_auto_feathering_available=1
min_rpm_for_feather =700.00000
beta_feather =79.30000
power_absorbed_cf =0.90000
defeathering_accumulators_available=0
prop_reverse_available =1
minimum_on_ground_beta =1.00000
minimum_reverse_beta =-14.00000
[TurbineEngineData]
fuel_flow_gain =0.02
inlet_area =1.00000
rated_N2_rpm =29920.00000
static_thrust =150.00000
afterburner_available=0
reverser_available=0
afterburner_throttle_threshold=0.01100
ThrustSpecificFuelConsumption=0.01100
AfterBurnThrustSpecificFuelConsumption=0.01100
[turboprop_engine]
power_scalar =1.7
maximum_torque =3888.02471
max_rpm_mechanical_efficiency_scalar=1.00
idle_rpm_mechanical_efficiency_scalar=1.00
max_rpm_friction_scalar=1.00
idle_rpm_friction_scalar=1.00
[Reference Speeds]
flaps_up_stall_speed = 101.00
full_flaps_stall_speed = 84.00
cruise_speed =300.00000
normal_cruise_speed = 260.00
max_indicated_speed=359.00000
max_mach=0.58000
max_level_speed=300
[electrical]
;BusType, MaxAmpLoad, MinVoltage BusTypes:0=MainBus,1=AvionicsBus,2=BatteryBus,3=HotBatteryBus,4-7=Generator/AlternatorBus(1-4)
flap_motor = 0, 5 , 17.0
gear_motor = 0, 5 , 17.0
autopilot = 0, 5 , 17.0
avionics_bus = 0, 10, 17.0
avionics = 1, 5 , 17.0
pitot_heat = 0, 2 , 17.0
additional_system = 0, 20, 17.0
marker_beacon = 1, 2 , 17.0
gear_warning = 0, 2 , 17.0
fuel_pump = 0, 5 , 17.0
starter1 = 0, 20, 17.0
light_nav = 0, 5 , 17.0
light_beacon = 0, 5 , 17.0
light_landing = 0, 5 , 17.0
light_taxi = 0, 5 , 17.0
light_strobe = 0, 5 , 17.0
light_panel = 0, 5 , 17.0
[contact_points]
//Classes...What type of point 0=Unused or Ignore
// 1=Wheel
// 2=Scrape point
// 4=Float
// 5=Float Rudder
//0 Class
//1 Longitudinal Position (feet)
//2 Lateral Position (feet)
//3 Vertical Position (feet)
//4 Impact Damage Threshold (Feet Per Minute)
//5 Brake Map (0=None, 1=Left, 2=Right)
//6 Wheel Radius (feet)
//7 Steer Angle (degrees)
//8 Static Compression (feet) (0 if rigid)
//9 Max/Static Compression Ratio
//10 Damping Ratio / Water Rudder Effectiveness (0=Undamped, 1=Critically Damped) / 1.0 = normal
//11 Extension Time (seconds)
//12 Retraction Time (seconds)
//13 Sound Type
//14 Airspeed limit for retraction (KIAS)
//15 Airspeed that gear gets damage at (KIAS)
static_pitch = 1.7
static_cg_height = 5.100
gear_system_type=0
max_number_of_points=8
tailwheel_lock=0
point.0= 1, 21.522, 0.000, -5.700, 1181, 0, 0.750, 56.00, 0.296, 2.500, 0.952, 4.800, 4.800, 0, 184.0, 184.0
point.1= 1, -2.50, -8.600, -5.400, 1574, 1, 0.750, 0.000, 0.642, 2.500, 0.815, 4.500, 5.200, 2, 184.0, 184.0
point.2= 1, -2.50, 8.600, -5.400, 1574, 2, 0.750, 0.000, 0.642, 2.500, 0.815, 4.800, 4.900, 3, 184.0, 184.0
point.3= 2, -2.200, -29.300, 3.200, 2361, 0, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 5
point.4= 2, -2.200, 29.300, 3.200, 2361, 0, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 6
point.5= 2, -35.000, 0.000, 11.000, 2361, 0, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 9
point.6= 2, 23.600, -0.000, -0.500, 1575, 0, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 4
point.7= 5, 23.600, -0.000, -0.500, 1575, 0, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 4
[Views]
//eyepoint=13.267,-0.619,2.607
//eyepoint=13.104,-0.815,2.77
eyepoint=13.267,-1.100,2.607
[Radios]
// Radio Type = availiable, standby frequency, has glide slope
Audio.1 = 1
Com.1 = 1, 0
Com.2 = 1, 0
Nav.1 = 1, 0, 1
Nav.2 = 1, 0, 0
Adf.1 = 1
Transponder.1 = 1
Marker.1 = 1
[keyboard_response]
//Breakpoint speeds (knots) on the keyboard increments of control surfaces.
//Speed at which the incremenet is reduced to 1/2 and 1/8 respectively.
elevator = 150, 250
aileron = 150, 250
rudder = 150, 250
[direction_indicators]
//1 Type: 0=None, 1=Vacuum Gyro, 2=Electric Gyro, 3=Electro-Mag Slaved Compass, 4=Slaved to another
//2 Indicator number of slaving indicator if Type = 4
direction_indicator.0=3,0
[LIGHTS]
//Types: 1=beacon, 2=strobe, 3=navigation, 4=cockpit
light.0 =3, 0.280000, -28.400000, 1.600000, fx_navred
light.1 =3, 0.300000, 28.400000, 1.600000, fx_navgre
light.2 =3, -35.000000, 0.000000, 11.000000, fx_navwhi
light.3 =2, -0.758000, -28.73000, 1.679000, fx_strobe
light.4 =2, -0.758000, 28.73000, 1.679000, fx_strobe
light.5 =1, -29.200000, 0.000000, 11.600000, fx_PADbeaconh
light.6 =1, -4.800000, 0.000000, -2.300000, fx_PADbeaconh
light.7 = 4, 16.50, 0.00, 0.00, fx_vclight_deepred,
//light.8 =4, 12.500000, -1.000000, 2.100000, fx_vclight_deepred
//light.9 =4, 12.500000, 1.000000, 2.100000, fx_vclight_deepred
//light.10 =4, 0.00, 0.00, 2.30, fx_vclight_deepred
//light.11= 4, -8.00, 0.00, 2.30, fx_vclight_deepred
//light.12= 4, 8.00, 0.00, 2.30, fx_vclight_deepred
[EFFECTS]
wake=fx_wake
water=fx_spray
dirt=fx_tchdrt
concrete=fx_sparks
touchdown=fx_tchdwn_s, 1
[fuel]
LeftMain = -0.000, -14.500, -1.000, 200.000, 0.000
LeftAux = -0.000, -6.000, -1.500, 59.500, 0.000
RightMain = -0.000, 14.500, -1.000, 200.000, 0.000
RightAux = -0.000, 6.000, -1.500, 59.500, 0.000
fuel_type =2
number_of_tank_selectors =1
electric_pump=0
fuel_dump_rate=0.02000
anemometer_pump=0
manual_pump=0
engine_driven_pump=0
[airplane_geometry]
wing_area =490
wing_span =57.70000
wing_root_chord =5.64125
wing_dihedral =6.00000
wing_incidence =0.00000
wing_twist =0.00000
oswald_efficiency_factor=0.70000
wing_winglets_flag =1
wing_sweep =0.00000
wing_pos_apex_lon =1.34427
wing_pos_apex_vert =0.00000
htail_area =38.68000
htail_span =22.08000
htail_pos_lon =-33.50563
htail_pos_vert =0.00000
htail_incidence =0.00000
htail_sweep =0.00000
vtail_area =22.93000
vtail_span =10.29000
vtail_sweep =0.00000
vtail_pos_lon =-32.58077
vtail_pos_vert =1.34000
elevator_area =21.43000
aileron_area =22.32000
rudder_area =14.60000
elevator_up_limit =25.00000
elevator_down_limit =25.00000
aileron_up_limit =20.00000
aileron_down_limit =20.00000
rudder_limit =30.00000
elevator_trim_limit =20.00000
spoiler_limit =0.00000
spoilerons_available =0
aileron_to_spoileron_gain =0.00000
min_ailerons_for_spoilerons =0.00000
min_flaps_for_spoilerons =0.00000
auto_spoiler_available=0
spoiler_extension_time=0.00000
positive_g_limit_flaps_up=3.00000
positive_g_limit_flaps_down=2.10000
negative_g_limit_flaps_up=-2.40000
negative_g_limit_flaps_down=-1.80000
spoiler_handle_available=0
load_safety_factor=1.00000
[autopilot]
autopilot_available=1
flight_director_available=1
default_vertical_speed=1800
autothrottle_available=0
pitch_takeoff_ga=8
max_pitch=10
max_pitch_acceleration=1
max_pitch_velocity_lo_alt=2
max_pitch_velocity_hi_alt=1.5
max_pitch_velocity_lo_alt_breakpoint=20000
max_pitch_velocity_hi_alt_breakpoint=28000
max_bank=25
max_bank_acceleration=1.8
max_bank_velocity=3
max_throttle_rate=0.1
nav_proportional_control=9
nav_integrator_control=0.25
nav_derivative_control=0
nav_integrator_boundary=2.5
nav_derivative_boundary=0
gs_proportional_control=9.52
gs_integrator_control=0.26
gs_derivative_control=0
gs_integrator_boundary=0.7
gs_derivative_boundary=0
yaw_damper_gain=0
default_pitch_mode=0
default_bank_mode=0
autothrottle_arming_required=0
autothrottle_takeoff_ga=1
autothrottle_max_rpm=90
use_no_default_bank=1
use_no_default_pitch=1
[forcefeedback]
stick_shaker_magnitude=5000
stick_shaker_direction=0
stick_shaker_period=111111
gear_bump_nose_magnitude=6000
gear_bump_nose_direction=18000
gear_bump_nose_duration=250000
gear_bump_left_magnitude=6000
gear_bump_left_direction=35500
gear_bump_left_duration=250000
gear_bump_right_magnitude=6000
gear_bump_right_direction=500
gear_bump_right_duration=250000
ground_bumps_magnitude1=3250
ground_bumps_angle1=8900
ground_bumps_intercept1=5
ground_bumps_slope1=0.48
ground_bumps_magnitude2=750
ground_bumps_angle2=9100
ground_bumps_intercept2=0.075
ground_bumps_slope2=1
crash_magnitude1=10000
crash_direction1=1000
crash_magnitude2=10000
crash_direction2=9000
crash_period2=75000
crash_duration2=2500000
[Flaps.0]
type= 1
system_type=0
span-outboard= 0.300
extending-time= 5.0
damaging-speed=250.0
blowout-speed=300.0
flaps-position.0=0.00
flaps-position.1=11.00
flaps-position.2=21.00
flaps-position.3=38.00
lift_scalar=1.7
drag_scalar=0.38
pitch_scalar=-1.0
[brakes]
toe_brakes_scale=0.55
parking_brake=1
auto_brakes=0
hydraulic_system_scalar=0.00000
differential_braking_scale=1.00000
[gear_warning_system]
gear_warning_available=1
pct_throttle_limit=0.09998
flap_limit_power=30.02299
flap_limit_idle=15.01149
[hydraulic_system]
electric_pumps=0
engine_map=1,1,0,0
normal_pressure=3000.00000
[stall_warning]
type=1
stick_shaker=1
[attitude_indicators]
attitude_indicator.0=1
[turn_indicators]
turn_indicator.0=1,0
[exits]
number_of_exits=2
exit_rate.0=0.5 ;Percent per second
exit_rate.1=0.5
[pitot_static]
pitot_heat=1.000000
[vacuum_system]
max_pressure=5.150000
vacuum_type=2
electric_backup_pressure=0.000000
engine_map=0,0,0,0
[pneumatic_system]
max_pressure=18.000000
bleed_air_scalar=1.000000
[deice_system]
structural_deice_type=2
[GPWS]
max_warning_height=0
sink_rate_fpm=-1500
excessive_sink_rate_fpm=-2000
climbout_sink_rate_fpm=-100
flap_and_gear_sink_rate_fpm=-100
[AirWrench]
Aircraft_Length=57.75000
Vmax_sl=326.70616
Vmax_ca=331.65451
V_si=103.10980
V_so=97.70114
V_rc=111.97080
Climb_Rate=2149.50000
Climb_Weight=18411.30000
Max_gforce=3.00000
Emergency_hp=0.00000
VSI_Weight=13326.00000
static_margin=0.24300
nose_position_lon=21.52000
ActualIncidence=1.00000
ActualTwist=-1.50000
ActualTailIncidence=0.00000
Aircraft_Type=2
ReheatCutoff=1.20000
OptimumMach=0.90000
Power_Calibration=1.00000
IdleRPM=0.00000
piston_research=0.00000
Max_Prop_Eff=0.90900
JetAltitude=0.00000
turboprop_critical_altitude=14996.70000
target_roll_Vopt=342.47183
target_roll_rate=43.20000
zero_roll_mph=765.84342
pitch_damping=2.05000
yaw_damping=1.55000
roll_damping=1.95000
weathervane=1.45000
elevator_scalar=1.45000
aileron_scalar=1.00000
rudder_scalar=1.45000
dihedral_scalar=1.25000
sideslip_scalar=1.00000
prop_yaw_damping_scalar=1.00000
Elevator_FF=50.00000
Aileron_FF=-60.00000
Roll_Response=30.00000
Adverse_Yaw=100.00000
Control_Response=100.00000
V_Max_Control=413.12966
V_Zero_Control=826.25932
V_Max_RdrControl=413.10000
V_Zero_RdrControl=826.30000
Spin_Stability=100.00000
Roll_Off=0.00000
glide_ratio=15.70926
vn_gmax=3.00000
vn_vmo=413.12966
expert_mode=0
CritAoA=16.00000
ClAoA_k0=1.00000
ClAoA_k1=1.00000
ClAoA_k2=0.85000
ClAoA_k3=0.80000
cruise_attitude=0.00000
Elevator_Propwash=1.00000
Rudder_Propwash=1.00000
afterburner_thrust=150.00000
prop_design_altitude=5000.00000
prop_material_type=1
protect_airfile=0
spoiler_type=0
spoiler_cd=0.00000
spoiler_cl=0.00000
spoiler_cm=0.00000
auto_flaps_enabled=0
flaps_type=1
flaps_cd_scalar=0.61900
flaps_cm_scalar=0.00000
vfe_enabled=0
gear_cd_scalar=0.78000
gear_cm_scalar=0.00000
critical_mach_number=0.80000
max_mach_cd0=60
cylinder_head_temperature=501.00000
exhaust_gas_temperature=826.00000
fuel_pressure=16.50000
oil_pressure=135.00000
oil_temperature=141.00000
radiator_temperature=211.00000
lo_rpm_friction=1.00000
hi_rpm_friction=1.00000
exhaust_pressure_ratio=1.40000
interstage_turbine_temperature=1941.00000
RAM_Jet_Effect=1.00000
Emulate_Turbojet=0
N2_idle=66.00000
jet_idle_scalar=1.00000
input_units=1
fs_version=5
AI_flag=0
edit_tp_torque=0
keep_jet_air_defs=0
direct_edit_mach=0
direct_edit_2dtab=0
fixed_wing_pos=0
range_est_alt=0.00000
range_est_rpm=0.00000
range_est_mp=29.92000
range_est_fuel=759.00000
contact_light_flags=0
AirWrenchVersion=1.01.79
Still think low speeds are good but this has a cruise speed of around 280 which I couldn't quite achieve without throwing off the low speed characteristics. Anyone please take this further because I don't know how much more I'm able to do. Areas edited were CG, MoI, flight tuning, contact points, flaps, power scalar, thrust scalar,
// © PREMIER AIRCRAFT DESIGN 2011
//Beechcraft B1900C for FS2004
// FSDS Design by Jean-Pierre Brisard. FD by Bob May
// 03 May 2011
[fltsim.0]
title=B1900C Frontier
sim=Beech_B1900
model=pax
panel=B1909
sound=padturbo
texture=frontier
kb_checklists=Beech_B1900_check
kb_reference=Beech_B1900_ref
atc_id=N575P
atc_parking_types=gate,ramp
ui_manufacturer=Beechcraft
atc_airline=regional
atc_flight_number=FR64
ui_type="B1900C"
ui_variation=Frontier Flying Services
prop_anim_ratio=1.015
description=B1900C_2_9. The Beechcraft 1900 was developed directly from the Beechcraft Super King Air 200. The 1900 first flew on September 3, 1982, with Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) certification awarded in November 1983
[fltsim.1]
title=B1900CC ACE
sim=Beech_B1900
model=cargo
panel=B1909
sound=padturbo
texture=ace
kb_checklists=Beech_B1900_check
kb_reference=Beech_B1900_ref
atc_id=N15GA
ui_manufacturer=Beechcraft
atc_airline=regional
atc_flight_number=ace190
atc_parking_types=ramp,cargo
ui_type="B1900C"
ui_variation=Alaska Central Express
prop_anim_ratio=1.015
description=B1900C_2_9. The Beechcraft 1900 was developed directly from the Beechcraft Super King Air 200. The 1900 first flew on September 3, 1982, with Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) certification awarded in November 1983
The 1900D uses two PT6A-67D engines, each rated at 1,279 shaft horsepower. The cabin is pressurized to up to 25,000 ft.
A total of 695 Beechcraft 1900 aircraft were built, making this regional airliner the best selling 19 passenger airliner in history.
description=The Beechcraft 1900 was developed directly from the Beechcraft Super King Air 200. The 1900 first flew on September 3, 1982, with Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) certification awarded in November 1983
The 1900D uses two PT6A-67D engines, each rated at 1,279 shaft horsepower. The cabin is pressurized to up to 25,000 ft.
A total of 695 Beechcraft 1900 aircraft were built, making this regional airliner the best selling 19 passenger airliner in history.
[General]
atc_type=BEECH
atc_model=190
editable=1
performance=Max speed: 330 kts (ground speed-zero wind) Cruising speed 280mph (true airspeed) at 20,000ft\nRange: 1720 nm\nService Ceiling: 25,000\nMax weight: 16,949\nPassenger: 19 + 2 crew
Category=airplane
[WEIGHT_AND_BALANCE]
max_gross_weight =17000.0
empty_weight =10474.00000
reference_datum_position = 0.00, 0.00, 0.00
empty_weight_CG_position = -0.500, -0.000, -0.800
max_number_of_stations =5
;Moments of Inertia
empty_weight_pitch_MOI =70615
empty_weight_roll_MOI = 49859
empty_weight_yaw_MOI =72841
empty_weight_coupled_MOI=0.00000
CG_forward_limit= 0.00
CG_aft_limit= 1.00
station_load.0= 170, -0.000, -2.000, 0.000, Pilot
station_load.1= 170, -0.000, 2.000, 0.000, First Officer
station_load.2= 598, -6.000, 0.000, -2.000, Passenger/Cargo
station_load.3= 1197, -0.000, 0.000, -2.000, Passenger/Cargo
station_load.4= 598, 6.000, 0.000, -2.000, Passenger/Cargo
[flight_tuning]
cruise_lift_scalar =1.5
parasite_drag_scalar =1.0
induced_drag_scalar =0.8
elevator_effectiveness=0.50
aileron_effectiveness =0.5
rudder_effectiveness=0.5
pitch_stability =1.2
roll_stability =0.97
yaw_stability =1.0
elevator_trim_effectiveness =1.00000
aileron_trim_effectiveness =1.00000
rudder_trim_effectiveness =1.00000
hi_alpha_on_roll=1.00000
hi_alpha_on_yaw=1.00000
p_factor_on_yaw=1.00000
torque_on_roll=1.00000
gyro_precession_on_roll=1.00000
gyro_precession_on_yaw=1.00000
[GeneralEngineData]
engine_type =5
Engine.0 =6.500, -8.600, -0.500
Engine.1 =6.500, 8.600, -0.500
fuel_flow_scalar =1.00000
min_throttle_limit=-0.25000
[propeller]
thrust_scalar =0.68
propeller_type =0
propeller_diameter =8.60000
propeller_blades =4
propeller_moi =31.61322
beta_max =45.00000
beta_min =15.20000
min_gov_rpm =25520.00000
prop_tc =0.00400
gear_reduction_ratio =17.60000
fixed_pitch_beta =0.00000
low_speed_theory_limit =80.00000
prop_sync_available =1
prop_deice_available =1
prop_feathering_available=1
prop_auto_feathering_available=1
min_rpm_for_feather =700.00000
beta_feather =79.30000
power_absorbed_cf =0.90000
defeathering_accumulators_available=0
prop_reverse_available =1
minimum_on_ground_beta =1.00000
minimum_reverse_beta =-14.00000
[TurbineEngineData]
fuel_flow_gain =0.02
inlet_area =1.00000
rated_N2_rpm =29920.00000
static_thrust =150.00000
afterburner_available=0
reverser_available=0
afterburner_throttle_threshold=0.01100
ThrustSpecificFuelConsumption=0.01100
AfterBurnThrustSpecificFuelConsumption=0.01100
[turboprop_engine]
power_scalar =1.7
maximum_torque =3888.02471
max_rpm_mechanical_efficiency_scalar=1.00
idle_rpm_mechanical_efficiency_scalar=1.00
max_rpm_friction_scalar=1.00
idle_rpm_friction_scalar=1.00
[Reference Speeds]
flaps_up_stall_speed = 101.00
full_flaps_stall_speed = 84.00
cruise_speed =300.00000
normal_cruise_speed = 260.00
max_indicated_speed=359.00000
max_mach=0.58000
max_level_speed=300
[electrical]
;BusType, MaxAmpLoad, MinVoltage BusTypes:0=MainBus,1=AvionicsBus,2=BatteryBus,3=HotBatteryBus,4-7=Generator/AlternatorBus(1-4)
flap_motor = 0, 5 , 17.0
gear_motor = 0, 5 , 17.0
autopilot = 0, 5 , 17.0
avionics_bus = 0, 10, 17.0
avionics = 1, 5 , 17.0
pitot_heat = 0, 2 , 17.0
additional_system = 0, 20, 17.0
marker_beacon = 1, 2 , 17.0
gear_warning = 0, 2 , 17.0
fuel_pump = 0, 5 , 17.0
starter1 = 0, 20, 17.0
light_nav = 0, 5 , 17.0
light_beacon = 0, 5 , 17.0
light_landing = 0, 5 , 17.0
light_taxi = 0, 5 , 17.0
light_strobe = 0, 5 , 17.0
light_panel = 0, 5 , 17.0
[contact_points]
//Classes...What type of point 0=Unused or Ignore
// 1=Wheel
// 2=Scrape point
// 4=Float
// 5=Float Rudder
//0 Class
//1 Longitudinal Position (feet)
//2 Lateral Position (feet)
//3 Vertical Position (feet)
//4 Impact Damage Threshold (Feet Per Minute)
//5 Brake Map (0=None, 1=Left, 2=Right)
//6 Wheel Radius (feet)
//7 Steer Angle (degrees)
//8 Static Compression (feet) (0 if rigid)
//9 Max/Static Compression Ratio
//10 Damping Ratio / Water Rudder Effectiveness (0=Undamped, 1=Critically Damped) / 1.0 = normal
//11 Extension Time (seconds)
//12 Retraction Time (seconds)
//13 Sound Type
//14 Airspeed limit for retraction (KIAS)
//15 Airspeed that gear gets damage at (KIAS)
static_pitch = 1.7
static_cg_height = 5.100
gear_system_type=0
max_number_of_points=8
tailwheel_lock=0
point.0= 1, 21.522, 0.000, -5.700, 1181, 0, 0.750, 56.00, 0.296, 2.500, 0.952, 4.800, 4.800, 0, 184.0, 184.0
point.1= 1, -2.50, -8.600, -5.400, 1574, 1, 0.750, 0.000, 0.642, 2.500, 0.815, 4.500, 5.200, 2, 184.0, 184.0
point.2= 1, -2.50, 8.600, -5.400, 1574, 2, 0.750, 0.000, 0.642, 2.500, 0.815, 4.800, 4.900, 3, 184.0, 184.0
point.3= 2, -2.200, -29.300, 3.200, 2361, 0, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 5
point.4= 2, -2.200, 29.300, 3.200, 2361, 0, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 6
point.5= 2, -35.000, 0.000, 11.000, 2361, 0, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 9
point.6= 2, 23.600, -0.000, -0.500, 1575, 0, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 4
point.7= 5, 23.600, -0.000, -0.500, 1575, 0, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 4
[Views]
//eyepoint=13.267,-0.619,2.607
//eyepoint=13.104,-0.815,2.77
eyepoint=13.267,-1.100,2.607
[Radios]
// Radio Type = availiable, standby frequency, has glide slope
Audio.1 = 1
Com.1 = 1, 0
Com.2 = 1, 0
Nav.1 = 1, 0, 1
Nav.2 = 1, 0, 0
Adf.1 = 1
Transponder.1 = 1
Marker.1 = 1
[keyboard_response]
//Breakpoint speeds (knots) on the keyboard increments of control surfaces.
//Speed at which the incremenet is reduced to 1/2 and 1/8 respectively.
elevator = 150, 250
aileron = 150, 250
rudder = 150, 250
[direction_indicators]
//1 Type: 0=None, 1=Vacuum Gyro, 2=Electric Gyro, 3=Electro-Mag Slaved Compass, 4=Slaved to another
//2 Indicator number of slaving indicator if Type = 4
direction_indicator.0=3,0
[LIGHTS]
//Types: 1=beacon, 2=strobe, 3=navigation, 4=cockpit
light.0 =3, 0.280000, -28.400000, 1.600000, fx_navred
light.1 =3, 0.300000, 28.400000, 1.600000, fx_navgre
light.2 =3, -35.000000, 0.000000, 11.000000, fx_navwhi
light.3 =2, -0.758000, -28.73000, 1.679000, fx_strobe
light.4 =2, -0.758000, 28.73000, 1.679000, fx_strobe
light.5 =1, -29.200000, 0.000000, 11.600000, fx_PADbeaconh
light.6 =1, -4.800000, 0.000000, -2.300000, fx_PADbeaconh
light.7 = 4, 16.50, 0.00, 0.00, fx_vclight_deepred,
//light.8 =4, 12.500000, -1.000000, 2.100000, fx_vclight_deepred
//light.9 =4, 12.500000, 1.000000, 2.100000, fx_vclight_deepred
//light.10 =4, 0.00, 0.00, 2.30, fx_vclight_deepred
//light.11= 4, -8.00, 0.00, 2.30, fx_vclight_deepred
//light.12= 4, 8.00, 0.00, 2.30, fx_vclight_deepred
[EFFECTS]
wake=fx_wake
water=fx_spray
dirt=fx_tchdrt
concrete=fx_sparks
touchdown=fx_tchdwn_s, 1
[fuel]
LeftMain = -0.000, -14.500, -1.000, 200.000, 0.000
LeftAux = -0.000, -6.000, -1.500, 59.500, 0.000
RightMain = -0.000, 14.500, -1.000, 200.000, 0.000
RightAux = -0.000, 6.000, -1.500, 59.500, 0.000
fuel_type =2
number_of_tank_selectors =1
electric_pump=0
fuel_dump_rate=0.02000
anemometer_pump=0
manual_pump=0
engine_driven_pump=0
[airplane_geometry]
wing_area =490
wing_span =57.70000
wing_root_chord =5.64125
wing_dihedral =6.00000
wing_incidence =0.00000
wing_twist =0.00000
oswald_efficiency_factor=0.70000
wing_winglets_flag =1
wing_sweep =0.00000
wing_pos_apex_lon =1.34427
wing_pos_apex_vert =0.00000
htail_area =38.68000
htail_span =22.08000
htail_pos_lon =-33.50563
htail_pos_vert =0.00000
htail_incidence =0.00000
htail_sweep =0.00000
vtail_area =22.93000
vtail_span =10.29000
vtail_sweep =0.00000
vtail_pos_lon =-32.58077
vtail_pos_vert =1.34000
elevator_area =21.43000
aileron_area =22.32000
rudder_area =14.60000
elevator_up_limit =25.00000
elevator_down_limit =25.00000
aileron_up_limit =20.00000
aileron_down_limit =20.00000
rudder_limit =30.00000
elevator_trim_limit =20.00000
spoiler_limit =0.00000
spoilerons_available =0
aileron_to_spoileron_gain =0.00000
min_ailerons_for_spoilerons =0.00000
min_flaps_for_spoilerons =0.00000
auto_spoiler_available=0
spoiler_extension_time=0.00000
positive_g_limit_flaps_up=3.00000
positive_g_limit_flaps_down=2.10000
negative_g_limit_flaps_up=-2.40000
negative_g_limit_flaps_down=-1.80000
spoiler_handle_available=0
load_safety_factor=1.00000
[autopilot]
autopilot_available=1
flight_director_available=1
default_vertical_speed=1800
autothrottle_available=0
pitch_takeoff_ga=8
max_pitch=10
max_pitch_acceleration=1
max_pitch_velocity_lo_alt=2
max_pitch_velocity_hi_alt=1.5
max_pitch_velocity_lo_alt_breakpoint=20000
max_pitch_velocity_hi_alt_breakpoint=28000
max_bank=25
max_bank_acceleration=1.8
max_bank_velocity=3
max_throttle_rate=0.1
nav_proportional_control=9
nav_integrator_control=0.25
nav_derivative_control=0
nav_integrator_boundary=2.5
nav_derivative_boundary=0
gs_proportional_control=9.52
gs_integrator_control=0.26
gs_derivative_control=0
gs_integrator_boundary=0.7
gs_derivative_boundary=0
yaw_damper_gain=0
default_pitch_mode=0
default_bank_mode=0
autothrottle_arming_required=0
autothrottle_takeoff_ga=1
autothrottle_max_rpm=90
use_no_default_bank=1
use_no_default_pitch=1
[forcefeedback]
stick_shaker_magnitude=5000
stick_shaker_direction=0
stick_shaker_period=111111
gear_bump_nose_magnitude=6000
gear_bump_nose_direction=18000
gear_bump_nose_duration=250000
gear_bump_left_magnitude=6000
gear_bump_left_direction=35500
gear_bump_left_duration=250000
gear_bump_right_magnitude=6000
gear_bump_right_direction=500
gear_bump_right_duration=250000
ground_bumps_magnitude1=3250
ground_bumps_angle1=8900
ground_bumps_intercept1=5
ground_bumps_slope1=0.48
ground_bumps_magnitude2=750
ground_bumps_angle2=9100
ground_bumps_intercept2=0.075
ground_bumps_slope2=1
crash_magnitude1=10000
crash_direction1=1000
crash_magnitude2=10000
crash_direction2=9000
crash_period2=75000
crash_duration2=2500000
[Flaps.0]
type= 1
system_type=0
span-outboard= 0.300
extending-time= 5.0
damaging-speed=250.0
blowout-speed=300.0
flaps-position.0=0.00
flaps-position.1=11.00
flaps-position.2=21.00
flaps-position.3=38.00
lift_scalar=1.7
drag_scalar=0.38
pitch_scalar=-1.0
[brakes]
toe_brakes_scale=0.55
parking_brake=1
auto_brakes=0
hydraulic_system_scalar=0.00000
differential_braking_scale=1.00000
[gear_warning_system]
gear_warning_available=1
pct_throttle_limit=0.09998
flap_limit_power=30.02299
flap_limit_idle=15.01149
[hydraulic_system]
electric_pumps=0
engine_map=1,1,0,0
normal_pressure=3000.00000
[stall_warning]
type=1
stick_shaker=1
[attitude_indicators]
attitude_indicator.0=1
[turn_indicators]
turn_indicator.0=1,0
[exits]
number_of_exits=2
exit_rate.0=0.5 ;Percent per second
exit_rate.1=0.5
[pitot_static]
pitot_heat=1.000000
[vacuum_system]
max_pressure=5.150000
vacuum_type=2
electric_backup_pressure=0.000000
engine_map=0,0,0,0
[pneumatic_system]
max_pressure=18.000000
bleed_air_scalar=1.000000
[deice_system]
structural_deice_type=2
[GPWS]
max_warning_height=0
sink_rate_fpm=-1500
excessive_sink_rate_fpm=-2000
climbout_sink_rate_fpm=-100
flap_and_gear_sink_rate_fpm=-100
[AirWrench]
Aircraft_Length=57.75000
Vmax_sl=326.70616
Vmax_ca=331.65451
V_si=103.10980
V_so=97.70114
V_rc=111.97080
Climb_Rate=2149.50000
Climb_Weight=18411.30000
Max_gforce=3.00000
Emergency_hp=0.00000
VSI_Weight=13326.00000
static_margin=0.24300
nose_position_lon=21.52000
ActualIncidence=1.00000
ActualTwist=-1.50000
ActualTailIncidence=0.00000
Aircraft_Type=2
ReheatCutoff=1.20000
OptimumMach=0.90000
Power_Calibration=1.00000
IdleRPM=0.00000
piston_research=0.00000
Max_Prop_Eff=0.90900
JetAltitude=0.00000
turboprop_critical_altitude=14996.70000
target_roll_Vopt=342.47183
target_roll_rate=43.20000
zero_roll_mph=765.84342
pitch_damping=2.05000
yaw_damping=1.55000
roll_damping=1.95000
weathervane=1.45000
elevator_scalar=1.45000
aileron_scalar=1.00000
rudder_scalar=1.45000
dihedral_scalar=1.25000
sideslip_scalar=1.00000
prop_yaw_damping_scalar=1.00000
Elevator_FF=50.00000
Aileron_FF=-60.00000
Roll_Response=30.00000
Adverse_Yaw=100.00000
Control_Response=100.00000
V_Max_Control=413.12966
V_Zero_Control=826.25932
V_Max_RdrControl=413.10000
V_Zero_RdrControl=826.30000
Spin_Stability=100.00000
Roll_Off=0.00000
glide_ratio=15.70926
vn_gmax=3.00000
vn_vmo=413.12966
expert_mode=0
CritAoA=16.00000
ClAoA_k0=1.00000
ClAoA_k1=1.00000
ClAoA_k2=0.85000
ClAoA_k3=0.80000
cruise_attitude=0.00000
Elevator_Propwash=1.00000
Rudder_Propwash=1.00000
afterburner_thrust=150.00000
prop_design_altitude=5000.00000
prop_material_type=1
protect_airfile=0
spoiler_type=0
spoiler_cd=0.00000
spoiler_cl=0.00000
spoiler_cm=0.00000
auto_flaps_enabled=0
flaps_type=1
flaps_cd_scalar=0.61900
flaps_cm_scalar=0.00000
vfe_enabled=0
gear_cd_scalar=0.78000
gear_cm_scalar=0.00000
critical_mach_number=0.80000
max_mach_cd0=60
cylinder_head_temperature=501.00000
exhaust_gas_temperature=826.00000
fuel_pressure=16.50000
oil_pressure=135.00000
oil_temperature=141.00000
radiator_temperature=211.00000
lo_rpm_friction=1.00000
hi_rpm_friction=1.00000
exhaust_pressure_ratio=1.40000
interstage_turbine_temperature=1941.00000
RAM_Jet_Effect=1.00000
Emulate_Turbojet=0
N2_idle=66.00000
jet_idle_scalar=1.00000
input_units=1
fs_version=5
AI_flag=0
edit_tp_torque=0
keep_jet_air_defs=0
direct_edit_mach=0
direct_edit_2dtab=0
fixed_wing_pos=0
range_est_alt=0.00000
range_est_rpm=0.00000
range_est_mp=29.92000
range_est_fuel=759.00000
contact_light_flags=0
AirWrenchVersion=1.01.79
aeromed202
SOH-CM-2014
No problem. What I posted is the contents of the aircraft file, the one that is listed when you open any aircraft folder in FS. I opened it with notepad then copied and pasted the text to the forum. I don't do anything with air or model files because I don't have the software and don't know anything about them anyway. Editing the cfg doesn't change any other files. So to try what is on the post, save your existing aircraft.cfg file somewhere, and this is a bit roundabout but, open the the existing cfg where it is in the aircraft folder and delete all the text in it, then copy and paste every bit of the cfg in the post and paste it to where the deleted stuff was, then close that cfg saving when prompted. When you next load the AC you can try out the changes. Hope that answers your concerns.
Sunny9850
SOH-CM-2024
That is true only if no additional liveries have been added. Otherwise replacing the entire text with the one you posted would remove them from the available list.
Basically everything from and including [weight and balance] is what you should cut and paste into the same location of the existing cfg file. Or cut and paste all the [fltsim.0] ..... Etc down to the weight and balance into this new cfg.
Stefan
Basically everything from and including [weight and balance] is what you should cut and paste into the same location of the existing cfg file. Or cut and paste all the [fltsim.0] ..... Etc down to the weight and balance into this new cfg.
Stefan
aeromed202
SOH-CM-2014
Sorry, absolutely right, everything below whatever liveries I had. I must be really tired.
Followed the instructions, and it's a vast improvement.
Before, I had to use a lot of pitch-up to barely keep flying. Even with the pitch way up, she wanted to sink sink sink.
I just did an ils approach to KBGR and it was smooth as glass all the way down. One thing I also did was keep my approach speed between 120 and 130. I had misread the manual files and was trying to shoot the approach at 100 or so knots.
I'm still puzzled by the relationship between the cfg and air files.
Good work, sir. and I thank you.
Before, I had to use a lot of pitch-up to barely keep flying. Even with the pitch way up, she wanted to sink sink sink.
I just did an ils approach to KBGR and it was smooth as glass all the way down. One thing I also did was keep my approach speed between 120 and 130. I had misread the manual files and was trying to shoot the approach at 100 or so knots.
I'm still puzzled by the relationship between the cfg and air files.
Good work, sir. and I thank you.
aeromed202
SOH-CM-2014
Glad you like it. Can't help with the relationship except to say that what I play with is the end result of a huge amount of other peoples dedicated work. It's a little like making the best out of the hand that's dealt. Mostly it's a winning hand, but sometimes a little taking from the deck can improve things. Editing cfgs can only go so far. Anyone with real time in these please toss in your suggestions.
Sunny9850
SOH-CM-2024
120-130 sounds a lot more reasonable to me for a 1900 carrying some fuel and passengers than 100 kts.
Again I typically fly in my own numbers as described before by finding the level flight stall speed in both clean and dirty configurations. Take that number times 1.3 and you have a good approximation for your approach speed.
At that speed the aircraft should not be full nose up trim just yet but may be relatively close to it. If with the new cfg you are close to neutral trim I'd question it's proximity to the real thing. But I may be wrong I have zero time in Beeches bigger than Barrons..
Stefan
Again I typically fly in my own numbers as described before by finding the level flight stall speed in both clean and dirty configurations. Take that number times 1.3 and you have a good approximation for your approach speed.
At that speed the aircraft should not be full nose up trim just yet but may be relatively close to it. If with the new cfg you are close to neutral trim I'd question it's proximity to the real thing. But I may be wrong I have zero time in Beeches bigger than Barrons..
Stefan
aeromed202
SOH-CM-2014
That's easy enough to arrange. What I can never seem to guarantee is the realism of how close to stall those last moments of flight are before touch down, but one thing at a time. Try
[flight_tuning]
cruise_lift_scalar =1.2
and
[Flaps.0]
type= 1
system_type=0
span-outboard= 0.300
extending-time= 5.0
damaging-speed=250.0
blowout-speed=300.0
flaps-position.0=0.00
flaps-position.1=11.00
flaps-position.2=21.00
flaps-position.3=38.00
lift_scalar=1.3
drag_scalar=0.40
pitch_scalar=-1.1
[flight_tuning]
cruise_lift_scalar =1.2
and
[Flaps.0]
type= 1
system_type=0
span-outboard= 0.300
extending-time= 5.0
damaging-speed=250.0
blowout-speed=300.0
flaps-position.0=0.00
flaps-position.1=11.00
flaps-position.2=21.00
flaps-position.3=38.00
lift_scalar=1.3
drag_scalar=0.40
pitch_scalar=-1.1
srgalahad
Charter Member 2022
I've been watching this thread with some interest.
First, KellyB, if you'd explained in a bit more detail HOW you had been trying to fly the approach, the speed issue would have been apparent early on. Note the Vref is (to simplify) the speed over the threshold, so trying to fly the whole approach this slow is a recipe for disaster. Also, the last two notches of flap seem to produce significant drag ( as they should) so should be left until fairly short final (say 1000' agl). Also bear in mind that this a/c is typically operated in some busy environments where it's expected the pilot will be matching speeds with faster/heavier a/c so 'higher' is 'normal'.
Several references I checked related the flight characteristics to those of the BE200 so here is the ILS profile for it... (click the link and then choose to open or d/l the .pdf)
http://www.smartcockpit.com/pdf/plane/raytheon/BEECHCRAFT-KING-AIR-200/diagrams/0006/
- you'll see that speeds are 150-175 initially, slowing to 130-140 at the beginning of the approach, 130-140 on GP intercept (staying above Vyse) and only slowing to Vref when by the MM (about 1 mile final). Crossing the threshold at Vref and a gentle flare should let you touch down at the 1000' mark - and reverse+braking got me stopped regularly by 25-2700 ft. (Note that an ILS approach is designed to land at the double hash-marks at roughly 1200 ft, not the threshold itself.)
I flew about 20 approaches and the ONLY time I had GP/sink issues is when I let speed drop to or below 120kts with the third notch of flap out some distance from the runway.
THEN the only cure is NOT pitch but power - a lot of it. Pitch will only serve to reduce speed further which then increases sink, and so on...
Seems the plane is fine and didn't need "fixing"
Rob
aeromed202
SOH-CM-2014
That's a great reference Bob, thanks. Did you by chance try the edits I made? Were they helpful or are you saying that they weren't needed at all, I couldn't quite tell. Bob May will be pleased as punch if they weren't!
srgalahad
Charter Member 2022
I never tried the mods. I try to have faith in the modeler's research and implementation at first. If it seems that the a/c is still 'out of range' when flown according to the docs or research online then I might question the model. In this case, the a/c seemed to work 'out of the box' at the target speeds I expected and used (above) so I felt it was likely a case of "if it ain't broke...". However, I also did not go out of my way to test possible CofG issues. Having said that, some ARE wonky as is (those bouncy/crashy-on loading ones for example) and I make mental notes to not bother.
As you can see from the linked accident report, it is possible to load the B1900 out of CofG so that is a characteristic of the design (and not the 1900 alone) so it remains a human issue in most cases.
"Narrative:
When the pilot initiated full flaps for landing approaching the threshold of runway 34L at Seattle, the aircraft's airspeed began to decay rapidly and a high sink rate developed as the aircraft entered into a stall/mush condition. The aircraft then landed hard, overloading the nose and left-main landing gear which collapsed. A post-impact fuel system leak during the ground slide led to a post-crash fire.
PROBABLE CAUSE: "A stall/mush condition resulting from an aft center of gravity which was inaccurately provided to the pilot-in-command by contractual cargo-loading personnel. Additional causes were overloading of the aircraft's landing gear and fuel leakage resulting in a post-crash fire. Factors contributing to the accident were the pilot's improper lowering of flaps in an aft CG situation and the inadequate company procedures for cargo loading."
http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19970813-0
Sometimes FS does not handle the full scope of real aerodynamics that well, but for the most part, in most types of a/c it does reasonably well. That's why my initial response to MOST "it doesn't handle well" or "It doesn't feel right" comments make me suspect flying technique. First of all, we have little "feel" and I'd wager many don't respect/research/learn the actual performance #s, assuming that most aircraft behave 'normally' - but there are a lot of quirky designs in the real world. A classic example was the bad rep. the Martin B-26 received on introduction. Pilots were not well-trained and tried to fly it like the trainers they had experienced. Once technique caught up to the aircraft's parameters it had one of the lowest loss ratios of any Allied a/c -under hazardous mission conditions.
We also tend to forget that flying is complex and unlike the 'real world' we get to hop in a FS a/c with no mandatory training, study, or an instructor-pilot... ever thought what it would be like if M$ had built in "hospital time" after each FS crash?
As you can see from the linked accident report, it is possible to load the B1900 out of CofG so that is a characteristic of the design (and not the 1900 alone) so it remains a human issue in most cases.
"Narrative:
When the pilot initiated full flaps for landing approaching the threshold of runway 34L at Seattle, the aircraft's airspeed began to decay rapidly and a high sink rate developed as the aircraft entered into a stall/mush condition. The aircraft then landed hard, overloading the nose and left-main landing gear which collapsed. A post-impact fuel system leak during the ground slide led to a post-crash fire.
PROBABLE CAUSE: "A stall/mush condition resulting from an aft center of gravity which was inaccurately provided to the pilot-in-command by contractual cargo-loading personnel. Additional causes were overloading of the aircraft's landing gear and fuel leakage resulting in a post-crash fire. Factors contributing to the accident were the pilot's improper lowering of flaps in an aft CG situation and the inadequate company procedures for cargo loading."
http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19970813-0
Sometimes FS does not handle the full scope of real aerodynamics that well, but for the most part, in most types of a/c it does reasonably well. That's why my initial response to MOST "it doesn't handle well" or "It doesn't feel right" comments make me suspect flying technique. First of all, we have little "feel" and I'd wager many don't respect/research/learn the actual performance #s, assuming that most aircraft behave 'normally' - but there are a lot of quirky designs in the real world. A classic example was the bad rep. the Martin B-26 received on introduction. Pilots were not well-trained and tried to fly it like the trainers they had experienced. Once technique caught up to the aircraft's parameters it had one of the lowest loss ratios of any Allied a/c -under hazardous mission conditions.
We also tend to forget that flying is complex and unlike the 'real world' we get to hop in a FS a/c with no mandatory training, study, or an instructor-pilot... ever thought what it would be like if M$ had built in "hospital time" after each FS crash?