Progress report on soft top jeep

thank you gentlemen for the confirmation
and especially for not getting irritated with my comments.
i have the utmost respect for both of you
and take great delight in watching the progress of your projects.
as far as i'm concerned, you are both masters of the craft
and stand on par with the best developers CFS1 has seen.

it is true that i do get frustrated,
but to be honest, it is more with myself.
i feel that i could create a quality aircraft,
if only i could keep focused on the task at hand.
i always seem to somehow get sidetracked
and never finish anything.
my life is filled with projects in various stages of completion.
many haven't even made it past the thought process,
many others past the drawing board.
and then there are those laying around
that will never be finished.

now, as i've said before, i am working on physical controllers.
i already have a flaps, gear and spoiler levers,
and a separate teamspeak push to talk button.
my current project is an auto-pilot array
with 4 knobs that push to toggle ALT, HDG, VS and AS on/off.
these knobs will also increase when twisted clockwise
and decrease when twisted counterclockwise.

i could go out and buy these knobs,
but they are about $20US each.
way to much for an old tight wad like me.

then, there will be the push buttons for MASTER, APR, NAV and BC.
after that is finished, it will be COM1, NAV1 and ADF radios.

small wonder i'm only slightly crazy.

oops...sorry Hubba,
i've hijacked your thread...again. :redf:
 
it is true that i do get frustrated,
but to be honest, it is more with myself.
i feel that i could create a quality aircraft,
if only i could keep focused on the task at hand.
i always seem to somehow get sidetracked
and never finish anything.
my life is filled with projects in various stages of completion.
many haven't even made it past the thought process,
many others past the drawing board.
and then there are those laying around
that will never be finished.
Click to expand...
I call it the "mental cramp". Simply not feeling up to it. A bit like the writer's "blank page" syndrome.

Others are (the list is by no means complete btw...);
The "snag"; technical difficulty that needs some thinking before tinkering.
The "dead end"; doing something, sometimes for months, realizing it won't work.
The "what's next"; as many avenues to go on are open, trying to figure out those that are potentially "dead ends".
The "you have reach maximum possible size", only happened to me once since I switched to SCASM with St-Leu d'Esserent monastic church;

View attachment 33084And only a handful of AAC players, and Ivan, have seen it. The orchard on the right is in need of apple trees and the hole thing should be elevated. Loss of time? Not in my book! This was a learning experience that has been useful for the jeep and will serve me with the Harvard MkII and, eventually, a Boston MkIII.

The "research phase"; the Taifun came to live after two years of intensive research. The jeep took me about three months. It is always an ongoing process.

And this list does not include "real life" things that keeps you away from the PC like illnesses, death of a relative, household chores, ....

oops...sorry Hubba,
i've hijacked your thread...again. :redf:
Click to expand...
Not at all smilo. In fact, I appreciate any comments you have to make. Same thing for others; I would appreciate any inputs you may have (just stay polite!:violent:).
 
No room on the" Round table" for " Frustrated"

Sorry, Hubba ( the Barbarian) the" members of the round table" have no available seats left for a member called "frusrated". I will be happy to take that project off your hands.( the Castle) I know what You and Ivan , and others work on. All the while attemptng to make everthing perfect...that will drive most people to drinking.

So I say to you, Grab a Beer or drink of your choice and "les bon temp rouler"

Ya'll stay safe and have a great weekend ( whats left of it )

Dave
 
Back to the topic...

Hello:wavey:

Since my last post, a few things have changed...View attachment 33245... the back and internal sides of the jeep no longer bleed through the windshield. I copied/pasted the upper part of it (from under the windows to the top) in the top section. Ivan uses this method quite frequently in his models. If I don't make the "openable" windshield, it may well stay that way. The top colors have changed too; they are more in tune with actual canvas that were in the sand/khaki tones. I did that simply to reduce the weird looks of models when, for a second, they're loading textures in a sudden change of perspective.

The poles are now textured...View attachment 33246... recycling the old ones. This is a case of "thinking before tinkering"; poles, if you have followed this thread from the start, were integrated from the start, at first simply to "hang" the canvas on them. Using a special texturing command, I was able to stretch the horizontal poles of the texture BMP along the narrow poles canted right and left at angles. The joints between the different sections of the poles are seamless (5). For your benefit, I have left the back section attached to the rear box in green (4). The poles are textured inside and out, except for the external sections under the canvas (1 & 3). One of the toughest part was the junction of the main back and front poles (2). These are made by 5 layers of textures arranged in sequence. An 8 vertices part that was inflated to 24 on both sides! But the end result is quite satisfactory; not a perfect match to the real thing, but close enough. The internal poles are textured...View attachment 33247... with the same piece of BMP and, being close to the gamer, they had to be perfect. The same technique as for outside poles was used. The bitmap sections used were "cut" approximately to maintain the density (I discovered that long sections covered by short bitmaps were thinning to the point of showing transparencies!). It doesn't have to be to the pixel. As far as I can remember, AF99 paint tool only does rectangular application, so to get a canted pole like mine, you had to draw it canted. With a 256x256 pixel texture, the poles would look jagged with the pixel constraint.

While I'm still juggling with the "windshield question", I will try texturing the rest of the top.
 
Hello Hubbabubba,
As expected, the Jeep looks great. I had to read your post over and over again to figure out exactly what you did, but it does make sense in a way. (I don't do my final assembly in SCASM, so I don't hit the same issues.) No argument about SCASM offering lots more possibilities. Personally, I am just not ready to go there yet.

There are a couple things I see and these really qualify as nit-picking:
In your second screenshot, I see just above the number 3 what looks like a mismatch of vertices of all the polygons that come together at that point.
Also in the second screenshot, I see (and I don't know if this is intentional) above the back of the driver's seat and just below the serial number on the windshield frame what looks like a small gap between the windshield frame and the dash.

- Ivan.
 
Hello Ivan,

If you had to reread my post, it must be a bit confusing for the others. Sorry about that. I'm trying to stay as simple as I can. That's why I put pictures in. Vocabulary is somewhat confusing, even for me!:redf: For example; "parts" are polygons in AF99, they're normally all in the same plan, for me "parts" are simple construction not necessarily planar and may have two or three (or much more) polygons in them, which would make them "components" in AF99. For more complex parts attached by glue-like commands, I use the word "section". Here, the top itself, part of the back, upper poles and upper windshield and wipers are forming a section.

I see just above the number 3 what looks like a mismatch of vertices of all the polygons that come together at that point.
Click to expand...
Optical illusion. The "mismatch" is the left corner of the front pole.

I see (and I don't know if this is intentional) above the back of the driver's seat and just below the serial number on the windshield frame what looks like a small gap between the windshield frame and the dash.
Click to expand...
This is in the original jeep as well. Not really intentional, but left there because it fits what research told me; rubberized felt used for junctions of windshield to dash tended to worn rapidly and loose its tight fit. In winter condition, it would soak-in water, freeze and crumble or be torn off when lowering the windshield. In summer, it would melt and sag. Many jeeps had lost their felt within a month or two of hard service. The same thing would happen with the rubberized felt between the internal "fold-up" window frame and the external "fold-down" windshield. One more reason not to open it that way.

P.S.- The "serial number" is in fact reading TP 35, which means "tire pressure is 35 lbs per square inch". This reminder appears on the low part of the windshield facing the front passenger (as in the picture), on the sides of both front fenders and just over the rear tires on the external box. The War Department was apparently very preoccupied with tires longevity!
 
Hi Hubbabubba,
I guess the difference here is that since I also build stuff, I am actually trying to understand exactly what you did. I don't believe everyone is actually reading your message for content. The terminology gets a bit confusing which is why I try to avoid using the words "Part" and "Component" unless I am specifically referring to AF99 meanings. I call other things "Pieces" to make the distinction.

When I want to show a gap in panels, I do something similar to what you do here, I move the vertices of a canopy frame 0.01 foot so that there is a barely noticeable gap. I can't do that with a texture because each pixel is generally at least three times wider than that and with the smoothing, the edges look a bit fuzzy.

Very Cool Jeep!
- Ivan.

P.S. Is the next Jeep going to carry a Recoilless Rifle?
 
Ivan said:
Here is a pretty good profile shot of a Soft Top Jeep. I found this when looking through photographs from the 320th Bomb Group (flying Marauders). My neighbour was a pilot in this unit.

http://320thbg.org/phpersonnel_84.html

Hubbabubba's Jeep looks pretty close....

- Ivan.
Click to expand...

Note the front pole; it is independent from the rear pole! First time I see this configuration. Usually, the front pole was attached to rear-main pole, forming a "Y" from the sides. Firsts jeeps had no front poles; the top would literally hang on the driver and front passenger's heads! When it was raining, the top would sag even more and fill with water. Not very practical. Maybe this jeep had a single rear pole and was "field modified"?

Concerning the recoilless rifle; I knew about a 75mm recoilless gun. Is it the same?

I've been pretty much away from the keyboard the past two days. With her retirement severance pay, my wife decided to replace all Televisions with HDTV. Transporting three HDTVs (37", 26" and 22") for a mile and a half on a little two-wheels hand cart (we no longer have a car) was tough enough, but removing the old ones was excruciating, especially the 26" on top of the fridge!

My work had reached a dead-end from which I had to "back-track" anyway. I had made a "tentative" bitmap for the top and, thinking I could go faster, I started applying that texture without the intermediate grid placement. Bad idea. Some of my polygons were inverted right-left, some were inverted top-bottom, some were both.

So I went back to using a grid for placement. For now, only the large squares on the top of the top are placed;

View attachment 33451

The sides are all made of triangles, with the exceptions of the corner poles and lower covered poles. The panels between row 6 and 5 are showing some distortion, probably caused by a mixture of the concavity and the irregular trapezoidal form of the panels. I will advise if it shows upon texturing for good.
 
With everyday life in the way, and a bit of R&R on top :sleep:, I haven't done much on the jeep. But, checking for texture application, I discovered a bleed;

View attachment 33964 This appears on both sides. It is due to the fact that glue-like plan between front seats section and rear box section is canted. I missed it on first inspection because it is only there from this very particular elevation and azimuth angles, give and take a couple of degrees. The "repair" will probably consist of a simple elongation of the external upper poles. No need to change the internal view, which is lucky; otherwise, I would have had to redo upper and lower poles to make a "middle pole" associated with front seats section, as internal poles would have bled through the back of the top.
 
Hello Hubbabubba,

Only YOU would have noticed this in your own creation, but now that you do, you NEED to fix it for your own sanity! Did you ever figure out why the textures were skewed a bit? I would venture to guess that when you adjusted the pixel locations of the vertices for texturing in SCASM that you picked the wrong vertices to move around. I have no idea what your code looks like, but that is the only thing that makes sense to me from what little I can see.

I make this comment about sanity because for the last couple of nights, I have been rebuilding the canopy on my A6M2 Zero and at 1156 polygons, I am bumping up against AF99 limits. I have just done a serious amount of rebuilding and my guess is that no one out there would have ever noticed the difference.

Awaiting the next screenshot.
- UBAH
 
Just a few words to tell you that the upper poles bleeds are gone, but not the distortion issue. I've tried many things, but none would work. If it was anything else than a canvas, this would be embarrassing, but, at least for now, I will go on with applying textures and get back to that annoyance later.
 
Hello Hubbabubba,

Glad you are making progress. I am having loads of fun also.

BTW, This isn't very far off topic, but in your "AIR" file for the Jeep, do you have a means for making the vehicle back up? That is a problem that I never actually addressed in my version of the AIR file. I am thinking this might be done with Propeller efficiencies, but haven't tried yet.

- Ivan.
 
Ivan said:
Hello Hubbabubba,

Glad you are making progress. I am having loads of fun also.

BTW, This isn't very far off topic, but in your "AIR" file for the Jeep, do you have a means for making the vehicle back up? That is a problem that I never actually addressed in my version of the AIR file. I am thinking this might be done with Propeller efficiencies, but haven't tried yet.

- Ivan.
Click to expand...

Hi Ivan,

Nope, the jeep is going forward only. Maybe it can be done and, if someone can do it, it's probably you. For myself, I have abandoned any hope of making it work.:isadizzy:
 
Hi Hubbabubba,

I may try out some stuff with Propeller Efficiencies later. That is what I was using to boost the acceleration from a very low torque engine in the Jeep. The numbers I picked were directly from the Gear Ratios of the Transmission and Differential. The problem is that I need also to figure out how to run Manual Pitch (Not RPM) Control to make this happen.

A thought occurred to me a little while ago: I am guessing that your location of the vertices of your Jeep's Top are all EXACTLY mirrored from Left to Right. Do you suppose that they need to be offset somewhat because of the smoothing / rendering of the actual simulator? I know that I need generally to move textures off center by around 1/2 pixel width to 1 pixel width to get things to look correct.

- Ivan.
 
A thought occurred to me a little while ago: I am guessing that your location of the vertices of your Jeep's Top are all EXACTLY mirrored from Left to Right. Do you suppose that they need to be offset somewhat because of the smoothing / rendering of the actual simulator? I know that I need generally to move textures off center by around 1/2 pixel width to 1 pixel width to get things to look correct.
Click to expand...

I had the same suspicion. After verification, this is not what's happening; distortion is even worst when smoothing is removed. The problem is with the rendering engine that has trouble in stretching a slightly canted trapezoid. The same effect appears in other panels, but is less apparent. I will probably end-up subdividing surfaces in smaller triangles where needed.
 
I don't see the canted trapezoid, or rather the specific canted trapezoid you discuss. With the method that is used to locate textures, do you suppose that smaller polygons would actually make the thing look worse because each vertex needs to be located on a pixel even if it doesn't quite match?

- Ivan.
 
Ivan said:
I don't see the canted trapezoid, or rather the specific canted trapezoid you discuss. With the method that is used to locate textures, do you suppose that smaller polygons would actually make the thing look worse because each vertex needs to be located on a pixel even if it doesn't quite match?

- Ivan.
Click to expand...

attachment.php


The troublesome polygon is the one containing the lower G6 to J6 squares. If I can stop sitting on my hands and move along, I will try some others tricks I still have in my bag. For the moment, that trapezoid (the front is slightly narrower than the rear) is made of four vertices that are only referenced in a Point declaration. It is also slightly canted as the two forward vertices are lower than the two rear ones. Note that other polygons have, in some cases, slight distortions.

I think that, for now, I will simply go on mapping all surfaces and return back later to that annoyance if it shows badly when the "real" texture is applied. It is, after all, a piece of fabric and it would not be so bad to see it flutter a bit.

If I ever resort to sub-dividing that polygon into many, I expect the distortion to be reduced accordingly. Of course, all is in the way division is made.
 
Do you notice the same issue happening with the G7-J7 line? I am guessing that your intent was to texture in a manner that the lines are all straight. Notie that the fore-aft lines are wider at the front and not just on the trapezoid you mentioned? I believe the front vertices of your polygon need to be moved out one pixel on each side....

Restated a bit better: The vertices are overlayed onto a particular pixel. I believe they need to be overlayed on the next pixel further out on each side of the texture.

- Ivan.
 
These two screen capture should help you understand what I'm doing, why I'm doing it and, most of all, why I can't do it another way.

progressvm.jpg


Above, you can see the three triangular polygons forming the left side of the forward top panel at he rear. Vertices 0, 1 and 2 are sharing the same texture positions as the rear central trapezoid polygon (0 and 1) and one of the triangular polygon of the mid section (2). Vertices 3 and 4 positions have to be determined, usually with EOD texturing tool and a bit of fiddling around for adjustment.

The texturing technique I'm using can be described as extending a texture like a piece of stretchy fabric, pinning it to the corresponding vertices. The code line in SCASM reads like this;

TexPoly( a pnum1 bx1 by1 ... pnumn bxn byn )

Where "a" stands for "automatic", "pnum" for the number of that vertex in the preceding points' declaration, and "bx" and "by" for the bitmap coordinates. In our example, it could read;

TexPoly( a 0 159 153 1 163 163 3 165 153 )

Where vertex 0 would correspond to x= 159 and y= 153, (that line is fictitious btw...), vertex 1 to x= 163 and y= 163, and finally, vertex 3 to x= 165 and y= 153. You also have to remember that SCASM reads bitmaps with the top at the bottom and the bottom at the top. Simple, isn't?

Unfortunately, this method also, sometimes, introduces distortion. A simple way to correct that would be to use another method that can be best described as cutting a rectangular piece of texture as wide and large as the widest and largest dimensions of the polygon to be covered, letting the rendering engine "snip" the extra texture. The code line would look like this;

TexPoly( abL xmin ymin xmax ymax pnum1 pnumn )

Where "abL" stands for "automatic, ratio-less, even", followed by the two opposite corner coordinates and the list of points to be covered. If the rectangle is a square, ratio is preserved. But otherwise, it adapts to the ratio created by the rectangle, using the texture to the fullest. For the same polygon as above, it would look like this;

TexPoly( abL 159 153 165 163 0 1 3 )

If I need to, this is probably what I will do with the distorted trapezoids, but only after having placed all my textures. For now, I must keep these textured polygons because they're also being used as "markers" for the contiguous-ones.

progress1p.jpg


As I had to suspend activities for a while (read; I procrastinated a lot...), finding where I was when I stopped isn't that easy. To that effect, I simply colored polygons until I get the one I want to work with. Above, you see the right side upper polygon of the same left section I've been working on in the precedent screen capture. Again, vertices 0 and 1 are already at known positions since they are sharing the same coordinates as the right side central trapezoid. Only vertex 3 needs to be found. I can use again EOD but, since I have the left side done, I could transpose since polygons are symmetrical. A bit of fiddling around will probably be necessary, but this is part of the "fun". Grid and lines come handy for that.
 
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