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SHERIFF JOE is at it AGAIN!

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n4gix said:
The real key to my concern about the situation is highlighted in red in the quote above.

It is grossly unfair to treat those awaiting trial as though they had already been convicted.
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Remind me again what burden of proof must be met for someone to be arrested and sent to jail to await trial?

It's not like people can just accuse you and off you go - I'm fine with the idea that pre-trial folks are treated this way.
 
CybrSlydr said:
Remind me again what burden of proof must be met for someone to be arrested and sent to jail to await trial?

It's not like people can just accuse you and off you go - I'm fine with the idea that pre-trial folks are treated this way.
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You could be arrested based solely on an officer's belief that you committed a serious crime. The burden of proof therefore, in theory lies on the accused (pre-trial, that is). If charges are filed against you, theoretically one could sit in jail awaiting a trial forever. Of course Habeas Corpus would be your friend at that point, but nonetheless many innocent people sit in jail for extended periods of time just to have their cases thrown out.
 
Panther_99FS said:
This statement by you proves without a doubt that you haven't actually read the law...
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Probable cause is based purely on an officer's own discretion. If it helps, then I'll quote "the law"...Probable cause is: "a reasonable amount of suspicion, supported by circumstances sufficiently strong to justify a prudent and cautious person's belief that certain facts are probably true".

To make an arrest, there is no need for tangible evidence, only a reasonable belief that a person has committed a crime.
 
Djscoo, although I think I understand your concerns about pre-trial detainees, look up the legal precept of "probable cause" as it applies to criminal procedures and police activity. You may get a better view of when the police can make a presumptive arrest - and when they cannot.

:running:


SORRY- I posted this just as you posted yours. . .
 
In Virginia and I would assume most states,when you are arrested you get a bond hearing and bail is set.If you can't make bail then you are locked up,you can post your bail at anytime from there on and get out.

Now listen closely here,the state has a set period of time to try you or they have to dismiss the charge.So your inane assumption that they can keep you there for as long as they like is nonsense.And if found guilty you get credit for the time served waiting for trial.

That's personal experience dude,not speculation.I served 8 months in jail and prison in one stretch and a number of other shorter vacations.These people as a general rule are scum,the worst of humanity.I have been there and seen it first hand.

So you know I have been in jail in VA,WV,SC much to my despair,I deserved to be there and my choice was pull my head out of my rear end or keep going there,I chose the former some years ago.Most do not.
 
Around here it is a well documented fact that Sheriff Joe is a publicity hound, prompting such things as chain gangs, pink underwear/handcuffs and "immigration sweeps". Although he initially saved Maricopa county millions of dollars by creating "tent city", his department has now cost the taxpayers of the county many millions of dollars more than he has saved. There have been several cases of "unexplained" deaths while in the care of the Sheriff's dept ( e.g. overly agressive deputies choking handcuffed inmates while seated in chairs). Although I agree that most of the rank and file members of the department are hard working dedicated peace officers, the upper echelons of the department are a PR nightmare for the county.
 
andersel said:
Yeah, except maybe give a damn about other human beings and the U.S. Constitution. He seems to me to be nothing but a self-involved, self-absorbed megalomaniac that has kept the voters of Phoenix fooled for years. I guess that that shouldn't come as much of a surprise.

PLEASE! Read and remember the Declaration of Independece, The United States Constitution and ALL the articles of the Bill of Rights!
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Living in Alaska, and I therefore must presume by your post that you think over 80% of the citizens living in Maricopa County, Arizona would vote for a person of such character for many years and elections in a row.

Of course, if the people who share the same county with him can be fooled, and you living in Alaska can see the reality, then I also presume you must be a mighty fine judge of human character from a thousand miles away.

Cheers,

Ken
 
djscoo said:
You could be arrested based solely on an officer's belief that you committed a serious crime. The burden of proof therefore, in theory lies on the accused (pre-trial, that is). If charges are filed against you, theoretically one could sit in jail awaiting a trial forever. Of course Habeas Corpus would be your friend at that point, but nonetheless many innocent people sit in jail for extended periods of time just to have their cases thrown out.
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I believe they still have bail and bail-bondsmen in Maricopa County, Arizona. I do not believe they have been outlawed.

So, even if arrested, normally bail is set within a few days at a pre-trial hearing.

In terms of the supposed "cruel and unusual" treatment. Precisely what would that be?

Wearing pink clothes?

Living in a tent in summer in Phoenix?

Well, like I wrote already, our troops get housed that way sometimes and I haven't heard many claim that is cruel and unusual.

Ken
 
Forum: The NewsHawks

Forum for Community news and announcements.
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I thought this was an a-politic, a-religious forum. This is turning into a right-wing law-n-order-get-tough-with-scumbag vs. left-wing anti-organized-slavery-racial profiling debate.

Yesterday, I wanted to post before it gets ugly.

Now, I'm posting because it does.
 
If our jails were more like those third world jails...our jails wouldn't be at the full capacity they are today. Our jails are more like a hotel with full medical,free cable and internet, three squares a day. As a matter of fact free everything. Everything you eat, all utility bill,ect..ect..ect you have to pay for. The prisoner get all that plus some for free. So next time you are writing a check for food, or pay high utilities bill...you are also paying for all there luxuries too while you are busting your a$$ at work. I could careless for any of them. They gave up everything when they broke our laws that we have to abide by. To get put in jail in this day and time you really have to have done a serious crime.
 
NoNewMessages said:
Precisely! FREE LINDSAY LOHAN!!! :ernae:
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Really?

She made a lot of mistakes with respect to DUI and subsequent violations of probation under a previous court ruling to wind up in jail.

Do you really think she deserves martyr status?

Her behavior could have just as easily gotten an innocent person injured or killed. I just hope this brief jail time finally sobers her up. That judge who put her in jail might well have saved her life.

Cheers,

Ken
 
If you really wanna see what it cost tax payers a day look at what it cost and house and take care of a prisoner, Goggle the cost. It makes me sick. 25,000.00 to 45,000.00 is more than some make in a year and that is just for one prisoner. Look what it also cost to get them a lawyer, court cost, appeals..ect..ect. Like I said in my earlier statement. Make our jails like third world jails...I bet cha the crime will slow down.
 
NoNewMessages said:
Precisely! FREE LINDSAY LOHAN!!! :ernae:
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Give me break...how many people DIE DAILY because of people like Lindsay Lohan who never met a alcoholic drink she didn't like while she was driving. She should of been put under the jail! That goes for anyone else who drinks and drives.
 
hubbabubba said:
I thought this was an a-politic, a-religious forum. This is turning into a right-wing law-n-order-get-tough-with-scumbag vs. left-wing anti-organized-slavery-racial profiling debate.
Yesterday, I wanted to post before it gets ugly.
Now, I'm posting because it does.
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Consider it ugly and about to be closed.
:cool:
 
hey_moe said:
If you really wanna see what it cost tax payers a day yo house and take care of a prisoner, Goggle the cost. It makes me sick. 25,000.00 to 45,000.00 is more than some make in a year and that is just for one prisoner. Look what it also cost to get them a lawyer, court cost, appeals..ect..ect. Like I said in my earlier statement. Make our jails like third world jails...I bet cha the crime will slow down.
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Mike,....I couldn't agree with you more. Remove the amenities, the weight lifting equipment, the TV's, etc. and run the prisons like they do in Mexico or Bolivia. I'm sure the word would get that various US prisons aren't places you would want to wind up in. It just might make that potential law breaker think a 2nd time before he commits a crime of some sort.
 
in before the lock....:icon_lol:

in my mind it makes more sense to steer someone away from crime in the first place. deterrents aren't really any more effective than rehabilitation. in my mind, the best approach would be to combine several different strategies.
education would be part of that, along with a minimum 3 years military or civil service for every citizen when they turn 18. at that point i would expect that most people would have enough education and life experience to support themselves without turning to crime, and at the same time more people would feel a part of their society.
 
cheezyflier said:
in before the lock....:icon_lol:

in my mind it makes more sense to steer someone away from crime in the first place. deterrents aren't really any more effective than rehabilitation. in my mind, the best approach would be to combine several different strategies.
education would be part of that, along with a minimum 3 years military or civil service for every citizen when they turn 18. at that point i would expect that most people would have enough education and life experience to support themselves without turning to crime, and at the same time more people would feel a part of their society.
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Cheeze has a good point - when young people feel a sense of attachment to their society, it is much more difficult to justify becomming a predator within that same society.
 
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