Should I Switch to VR? August Answers Your Questions!

Thank you August and DB ! I suppose i'm getting nearer, i.e. almost there, more or less..

My downloaded 'directx_Jun2010_redist' will not install, it doesn't recognise the folder i want it to install in. Possibly no wonder because i found a '_CommonRedist' folder in exactly the path you describe, August. Good thing there's something like a search system because otherwise i might not have found the 'Jun2010_d3dx9_43_x64.cab' in between the wagonload of cab files with my own eyes... ;-)

Anyway, i thought it best to just run the DXSETUP that i found inside that same folder. Installed fine, no problems there. So now i have the demo of "FlyInside Flight Simulator" running and select the first scenario (flight instructor). Looks fine on my monitor screen but i have no clue how to get it transfered to my G2..... ?? With MSFS i just hit Ctrl/Z et presto i'm in VR.

Possibly also no wonder because i think i downloaded and installed the wrong FFS installation.... :stupid:: namely "FlyInside Flight Simulator 0.6.0.0 Beta for Oculus, Vive, and Mixed Reality" ....

After downloading and installing, i am now trying "FlyInside FSX Pro 1.96 - for Flight Simulator X". That's the one i want, right ? Why i bothered with the former one first i have no clue. Must say i am getting slowly but certainly a little bit off my rocker here... :topsy_turvy:

So finally i have the FFS for FSX running but, like with my earlier attempt, on my monitor only, no VR....

The difference is that earlier FFS would start-up right away after clicking the FFS icon on my desktop. I could select some stuff from the menu and then i was put in the (2D) cockpit of a Bonanza (IIRC..). After realising my mistake i deleted everything pertaining to FFS and installed the correct version. This now gives me an icon that says 'FlyInside FSX' which i suppose is correct. When i click it i get the normal FSXSE start-up picture and it starts-up normally with the Trike Ultralight above Friday Harbor. The manual of FFS for FSX says that i should first get to select some basic settings where after FFS should start in VR. Not happening here at the moment.... While i click the 'FlyInside FSX' icon FSX just loads like i would've clicked the normal FSX icon.

So what do you think, gentlemen, clearly i am missing something, but what ??....

Have to say i don't know anything about DX9 or DX10 or DXwhatever, not even a clue where to look for it or check it. I just hit the DXsetup.exe from the "...._CommonRedist/DirectX/Jun2010" folder and let it do its work. There ends my knowledge of it. Is it überhaupt possible to check if FFS runs in DX9 mode ?? ...Would it run at all if not ??.... For the time being a mistery to me.. :rolleyes:

Thanks a lot as always for any hint/tip !
 
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Hi Javis
Due to this discussion I got Flyinside up and running again on my rig. I hadn't used it in ages what with having P3Dv5 and MSFS with their native VR to fly.

First the DX redist download just wants a temp folder to install to, its basically a glorified zip file.
Just make a new folder on your desktop and install it to that. Once its finished open the folder and run the setup file that's in it.
You can delete the folder when its done.

Yes FLYINSIDE_FSX_PRO_1.96_VIVE_1000.exe is the right one for you, I use FLYINSIDE_FSX_PRO_1.96_OVR_1300.exe which is the Oculus one.

Once its installed make sure your headset is up and running first so start Steam then start SteamVR, I don't have to start SteamVR my end because Oculus but I assume you will have to.

Now start FlyinsideFSX
You will get some prompts for things like setting a view centring button, registering or demo and it will probably want to change a few settings in your FSX.cfg for you.
It will also want you to restart Flyinside between some of the prompts.
That should be it.
 
Dangerous Beans said:
Hi Javis
Due to this discussion I got Flyinside up and running again on my rig. I hadn't used it in ages what with having P3Dv5 and MSFS with their native VR to fly.

First the DX redist download just wants a temp folder to install to, its basically a glorified zip file.
Just make a new folder on your desktop and install it to that. Once its finished open the folder and run the setup file that's in it.
You can delete the folder when its done.
Click to expand...

I already have that, DB. It sits in C: Program Files(x86)/Steam/steamapps/common/Steamworks Shared/_CommonRedist. Wasn't aware of that at first and that's probabely why a new install wouldn't work.

Once its installed make sure your headset is up and running first so start Steam then start SteamVR, I don't have to start SteamVR my end because Oculus but I assume you will have to.
Click to expand...

With the HP Reverb G2 we don't need SteamVR neither, it's "Windows Mixed Reality" that does the trick for us. Everything works flawlessly this way in MSFS regarding VR.

Now start FlyinsideFSX
You will get some prompts for things like setting a view centring button, registering or demo and it will probably want to change a few settings in your FSX.cfg for you.
It will also want you to restart Flyinside between some of the prompts.
That should be it.
Click to expand...

Well, here's where the shoe doesn't fit, DB. I click the 'FlyInside FSX' icon on my desktop and all that's happening is that FSX loads up normally. No prompts for settings, no registering the demo, no requests for restart FlyInside, nothing like that at all. Just FSX with the default Trike flight on my monitor. No VR whatsoever. (my G2 just shows the VR welcome scenario. Here's where i hit Ctrl/Z in MSFS and i am in glorious VR..)

It's clear that me hitting the 'FlyInside FSX' icon doesn't initiate the actual program for some reason (DX9/DX10 ??...). 'FlyInsideFSX.exe' sits inside the FSX folder together with 'FlyInsideAnnotator.exe' and 'FlyInsideLoader.dll' (during install it picked this FSX folder automatically..)

Thanks much for your reply, DB ! :encouragement:

Edit: i just realise something: may well be that FSX still has the DX10 Preview mode checked ! I'll look into it and report back. (feeling that must be it ! ;-)

(3 minutes later) Nah.....it's not. Bummer ! DirectX 10 Preview is not checked (i had it checked to take care of the black screen), i'm sure i did not uncheck it. Maybe it's like it needs to checked with each FSX session.... In any case nothing changed... :dejection:
 
Jan, you are close. I just have one tip.

YOU MUST RUN FlyInsideFSX IN ADMINISTRATOR MODE!

So don't double-left-click it. Right-click it and run as Administrator. Or, before you run it, right-click it and open the Properties menu and set it to run as Administrator all the time.

What is happening to you sounds like what happened to me until I figured this out.

When you do this right, the first time, you'll get the dialog box asking you to confirm that it can set all the settings it needs (DirectX9, no shadows, etc.).

Also, you WILL need to load SteamVR first, or at least Steam. Our G2s may not require it, but FlyInside does. You actually have to launch WMR and then Steam/SteamVR on top of that before starting FlyInside. Launch your Steam app as if you wanted to look at your game library, then you can close it again, the steam thingie will still be active in your system tray. If you forget to do this, FlyInside FSX will remind you.

Good luck!

August
 
BINGO v1.02 !!!
Thanks very much, August ! SteamVR is Bingo ! :ernaehrung004:

Heck, who could've thought this thing wants it all. ;)

Anyway, very glad it finally works ! Diner is served so no time to explore anything further but at first VR glance it looks great and works fine !

Thanks a lot again August and DB !! Happy FSX VR camper here !! :applause: :encouragement:

Cheers,
Jan
 
Whew, excellent. Please let us know what you think of experiencing your own masterpiece airplanes in 3D. Then we can talk about our other favorite planes and 3D in FSX vs. 3D in MSFS. I will have a few more tips as well.

August
 
Thanks, guys !!

This is gonna take a while.... ;)

I have to more or less 'learn' FSX again. Quite a different puppy compared to MSFS, i mean not only graphically. To my pleasant surprise i still have a ton of B-25 and F-86 stuff available including beta zip files. So i have atleast the F-86 working in glorious FSX VR ! Wow!! Magical ! :biggrin-new:

First inquiry if i may : do i need the G2 controllers to work with the cockpit switches, knobs, handles, etc in FSX ? In MSFS i have the cursor alright but in FSX i can't seem to get it going for now. So i'm flying our precious Sabre without the pilot figure and helmet/chute still on the wing... ;-) (wasn't there a key combo to get the pilot on board and the helmet/chute off the wing ?... A quick glance thru the manual nothing about that...bummer! ;-)

I have the B-25 show up in VR FSX as well (wonderful to see in VR too for the first time ! ) but no gauges. Found a gauges zip file ( all so long ago !...) and tried that but then FSX hangs up. I'll get it going somehow i'm sure. ( first tried buying the B-25 7th edition from the Maam-Sim shop but that reminds me of a shoe shop here of which the shop window looks like to have been setup in the early 50's and left like that..;-) There's a funny payment system of which i can't make heads nore tails. No go. Tried to contact Bill (Rambow, Maam-Sim boss) but to no avail sofar)

The C-47 works fine, gauges and all ! Just need to get access to the knobs and switches. A wonderful trip down memory lane especially hearing Tom's, Skip's and Kate's voices again. Been so much fun getting this all together ( and that's all because i posted a more or less sarcastic comment regarding someone who thought that Daniel's initial text2speech crew interaction was not up to scratch..;-) Quite amazing to see it all in 3D now no matter that the textures and mesh are old school today.

Still just messing about of course but now that it's all working it sure was worth the trouble to set it up ! Having a lotta fun with trips down memory lane in 3D ! :jump:

Cheers,
Jan
 
Glad you are making progress! OK, there's a lot to say here.

First of all, try this patch to get your gauges back in the B-25. https://flyawaysimulation.com/downlo...tchell-update/ This appears to be the official MAAM patch to bring the FS9 B-25 up to v7 (FSX).

Next, to prevent some airplanes from causing your FSX screen to go black until you restart, you need to open the panel.cfg file in all of the Panel folders for each plane you add. Look for any instance of either the following two lines. Some planes have them, some don't.

render_3d_window=1

child_3d=1

If you see either of these, you need to kill it, either by changing the 1 to a 0 or deleting or commenting out that line. The MAAM B-25 has the second one.

Your question about cockpit and menu controls deserves its own post so I'll stop this one here.

August
 
OK, cockpit controls. No, you do not need the G2 controllers. You can do it all with the headset, joystick, and your mouse.

First, you need to be able to bring up the FlyInside menu when you want it. When you setup the program you mapped a button/key for "Show/Hide Flyinside Window". Pressing that when you are in your plane should bring up FI window floating in front of you. If it doesn't, it's out of your field of view and you must press the button for "Recenter Head Position," which you also mapped during setup, and it will move in front of you from wherever it was.

Go into the Menu of that. In Settings, make sure you have enabled "3D Mouse Mode," "Hide Mouse When Not Moved," and "Show Tooltips."

Then go to Bindings. Bind buttons for "Recenter Mouse Position," "Show/Hide Mouse Cursor," and "Interact".

When you load a plane, there should be a mouse pointer (the usual Windows arrow) on the screen. If you don't see it, try moving your mouse, pressing "Show/Hide Mouse Cursor," and "Recenter Mouse Position" until it appears. You can move it with your mouse pointer, and when it moves over a switch that you can manipulate, it will show a tooltip and you can use your left mouse button and scroll wheel to operate it just as you would in 2D.

Note that this is a bit wonky and doesn't work all the time. Sometimes I load a plane and the mouse cursor appears, but doesn't respond to the mouse. I don't yet know why. But it does work for me in both the B-25 and Sabre at least most of the time.

Now here's another cool tip. You know all those instrument views like the radio stack, GPS, autopilot etc. that you can pop up in FSX using Shift-1, Shift-2, and so on? They work in FLyInside as well. Just open one using the Shift- keystroke or by taking off your headset and using the menu in the mirror window on your screen. You'll then see it in the 3D cockpit surrounded by a blue border with four manipulation icons on top. Those are for moving, resizing, changing the distance, and closing that window. You interact with this window by pressing the "Interact" button, which causes a blue dot to appear directly in front of you, then moving your head to look at the pop=up window. To move, resize, and redistance the window, move the blue dot over the relevant icon, hold down the "Interact" button, and move your head. It takes a while to get used to but once you do, it is way better than the MSFS VR interface. You can also manipulate the controls on these panels by moving the blue dot over them and clicking interact. If there are dials, you are supposed to be able to increment or decrement them by mapping the Increment and Decrement keys in the FI menu, but that isn't working for me yet. Regardless, it is cool to be able to pop up a GPS, move it around just like a tablet in MSFS, and control it using the headset and joystick in any plane.

I can't answer your question about the F-86 because my F-86 is in the proper configuration when I load it, and I don't know how to do any of that stuff with the helmet and chute on the wing. Maybe that's because I'm using somebody's FSX conversion of that plane and those features may have been eliminated for the conversion.

August
 
This morning I woke up with a headache, and my instinct was that the headset would make it worse. So I did something that, having now done it, I recommend to VR users. I treated myself (subjected myself?) to a VR vacation, using only TrackIR for simming today.

It was a revelation! The colors, contrast, and detail on my 1440p screen were so much better, it was almost like going from P3D to MSFS over again! Even if you have a rig that can run high/ultra settings in VR with good frame rates - and I'll pretend I believe that - you'd have to be massively indifferent to visual quality not to appreciate how much better the pancake is than a G2 headset or similar. I had to revisit all the scenery and skins I've downloaded recently to see detail that was invisible in my headset. I could zoom in and out on the scenery! I actually wanted to take screenshots for the first time in weeks. My flying was just as good, I spread some butter nicely on some runways. And I could see where my coffee was! So I really recommend a 2D day now and then for any VR user. Even if you much prefer VR, the experience will remind you why. So you win either way.

P3D, not so much. Although 2D has some advantages, the graphics don't really offer that much to make the greater sharpness pay off.

August
 
I see what you mean, and partly share your feeling.
My VR headset broke down a few weeks ago so I have been forced to go back to pancake mode for a little while. And yes, the added details and colors, compared to the VR display, is indeed quite pleasant.

However, having no Track-IR, it took me a while to get used to turning my head around in the cockpit again. While I could reach an acceptable level for flying a GA plane, it had become simply impossible to fly an helicopter. It just felt... too bad. A head-tracking device might have helped a bit, but I'm not sure it would have been enough.

That being said, flying liners was perfectly fine. I did miss the actual 3D view in the cockpit though, despite the lack of clarity and saturation in VR. But let's say, flying a liner in 2D was not a handicap.

Now my replacement headset has arrived a few days ago and I can tell you I was very, VERY happy to go back to VR.
 
Wow, and ouch. Despite my advice above, going back to 2D without head tracking isn't something I think I could stand to do.

I assure you it would have helped a lot. VR has no advantage over 6-DOF head tracking in terms of ability to look around. Head tracking actually is considerably superior for this, because of the wider FOV and ability to zoom.

Glad you are back up and running in VR though!

August
 
Gentlemen, sorry having been out of the loop (so to say...) for a while. Other matters of CR (Common Reality) have been needing my attention lately and maybe that's also why i have been struggling a bit with VR mostly because of the FSX ramification. After the first very positive experience a few days later i couldn't seem to get it going again. Errors here, errors there, to such extent that i thought it best to put my precious G2 aside for a moment.

August, thank you so much for the further tips and hints ! The question about needing Controllers was my bad. Completely forgat about that special button i assigned to my stick to bring up the FlyInside menu and to control the various peripherals in the cockpit. Sorry. Hey, i'm a dillitant, a VR rookie pur sang, hope i'm excused. ;-)

The great thing is that in the mean time i got in contact with Maam-Sim boss and good ol' friend Bill Rambow. He is retired too from his MAAM and Maam-Sim volunteer work and even FSX/P3D but loves to get back to flightsimming with MSFS, VR and a new system. He sent me links for the final FSX port versions of our R4D, B-25 and TBM/F so no worries there anymore. Of course i'll keep your tips re the panel.cfg's at hand. Thanks again, August ! :encouragement:

I'll report back once i get FSX VR going again. Atm my boat needs me more (Grand Banks 36 Europa which i love so much ;) )
 
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