Sundog
SOH-CM-2025
Thanks for the clarification.
Some Dora-9 Progress Shots
- Thread starter Mathias
- Start date
Thanks for the clarification.
First time I ever got a hands on look at a TA152 was at the Chaplain Fighter Museum at Falcon Field near Phoenix. That plane and the F2G Corsair are now at the Museum of Flight in Seattle.
MOI does affect the feel of flight, but more complicated is the reaction(and effectiveness) of the controls and aerodynamic ballance at varying airspeeds, and the speed stability which is affected by induced pitch moment vrs dynamic pressure.
I am sure it will be a nice plane when complete!
T
MOI does affect the feel of flight, but more complicated is the reaction(and effectiveness) of the controls and aerodynamic ballance at varying airspeeds, and the speed stability which is affected by induced pitch moment vrs dynamic pressure.
I am sure it will be a nice plane when complete!
T
Bomber_12th
SOH-CM-2025
I've been very excited about this news, and I look forward to seeing the project as it continues to develop! It's especially nice to see these aircraft being developed by Classics Hangar, knowing that they'll be done to perfection, with such a level of care and attention to detail in the visuals.
Tom, the example you saw was a Fw-190D-13. As you mention, it was owned by the Champlin Fighter Museum for quite some time. They used to do periodic engine runs with the aircraft (one of which can be seen in a Youtube video). The aircraft was fully restored to airworthy condition by GossHawk restorations, and after the Champlin Museum closed up shop, the aircraft was sent to the Museum of Flight in Seattle, where it went on display for a time. A few years back the aircraft was purchased by Paul Allen for his Flying Heritage Collection, where it can now be seen, located at Paine Field. Although the aircraft was restored to flying condition, it has and will remain un-flown. (One of the unique things about the restoration, was that for many years the aircraft's wing didn't belong - i.e., it wasn't the wing, nor the wing type, that it was originally manufactured with. It was found that its wing was actually in the possession of the NMUSAF, mounted to the museum's Fw-190D-9, and the wing fitted to the Champlin 109 actually belonged to the NMUSAF example (having been accidentally swapped decades beforehand). When the Champlin aircraft was restored, the wings were traded and now both aircraft have their original wings once more (though as a result, you can see that the paint finish on the NMUSAF Fw-190D-9 doesn't match up between the wings and fuselage).)
Note the white walls on the tail wheel tire - this indicates that the rubber tire is designed to dissipate static electricity from the aircraft, acting as a grounding wire. Also note the finish on the bottom of the wing - the forward half is bare metal, where as the rear half is painted.
Because of the lack of available resources at the time the aircraft was originally manufactured during WWII, items like the flaps and some access panels were lined with wood, due to a shortage of metal.
Tom, the example you saw was a Fw-190D-13. As you mention, it was owned by the Champlin Fighter Museum for quite some time. They used to do periodic engine runs with the aircraft (one of which can be seen in a Youtube video). The aircraft was fully restored to airworthy condition by GossHawk restorations, and after the Champlin Museum closed up shop, the aircraft was sent to the Museum of Flight in Seattle, where it went on display for a time. A few years back the aircraft was purchased by Paul Allen for his Flying Heritage Collection, where it can now be seen, located at Paine Field. Although the aircraft was restored to flying condition, it has and will remain un-flown. (One of the unique things about the restoration, was that for many years the aircraft's wing didn't belong - i.e., it wasn't the wing, nor the wing type, that it was originally manufactured with. It was found that its wing was actually in the possession of the NMUSAF, mounted to the museum's Fw-190D-9, and the wing fitted to the Champlin 109 actually belonged to the NMUSAF example (having been accidentally swapped decades beforehand). When the Champlin aircraft was restored, the wings were traded and now both aircraft have their original wings once more (though as a result, you can see that the paint finish on the NMUSAF Fw-190D-9 doesn't match up between the wings and fuselage).)
Note the white walls on the tail wheel tire - this indicates that the rubber tire is designed to dissipate static electricity from the aircraft, acting as a grounding wire. Also note the finish on the bottom of the wing - the forward half is bare metal, where as the rear half is painted.
Because of the lack of available resources at the time the aircraft was originally manufactured during WWII, items like the flaps and some access panels were lined with wood, due to a shortage of metal.
Back when it was at Chaplain @Falcon field the data plate said TA 152.... Of course that was in 1986, a time I sometimes remember better than 10 mins ago.... If you say it is a Dora 9-13, I am sure you are correct.
To fly or not to fly isle one of the most dependable piton ponders ever, have puked dozens of engines, not a big deal in a four holer a point of contention between the museum and warbird crowd. Sadly they get crashed now and then, the production rate of new ones being slower than the loss rate. Even when new, with military trained pilots, the operational loss rate was high. My DC6 friends flying the R2800, arguably the most dependable piston pounder ever, have puked dozens of engines. not a big deal in a four holer, but in a single engine aircraft a cause for some excitement.
FS plays an important part in preserving a dynamic history of these planes!
T
To fly or not to fly isle one of the most dependable piton ponders ever, have puked dozens of engines, not a big deal in a four holer a point of contention between the museum and warbird crowd. Sadly they get crashed now and then, the production rate of new ones being slower than the loss rate. Even when new, with military trained pilots, the operational loss rate was high. My DC6 friends flying the R2800, arguably the most dependable piston pounder ever, have puked dozens of engines. not a big deal in a four holer, but in a single engine aircraft a cause for some excitement.
FS plays an important part in preserving a dynamic history of these planes!
T
Bomber_12th
SOH-CM-2025
Tom, I'm affraid your memory is superb. The Champlin Fighter Museum did have the forward end off of a Ta 152 (engine and cowl) on display as well. I'm not sure where that has ended up since.
Although I'm sure most have already seen it, this is the video that was posted to Youtube quite a while back, of an engine start that was performed with the Fw 190D-13 sometime in the 80's/90's, at the Champlin Fighter Museum (many years prior to its recent ground-up restoration). Notice how similar all of the sounds are to that of a DB-powered Me-109 (the long-nose Fw 190's being of course powered by inline Jumo engines). The only (and key) item missing from the aircraft (both before and after the restoration), is the complex Kommandogerät, which kept it from having engine runs (note in the video all they were able to do with it was start it and run it at idle), and keeps it of course from flying (though its rarity is usually the only item noted for it being ground-bound). The Flying Heritage Collection's airworthy, and flown, original Fw 190A-5 does have a fully restored operational Kommandogerät.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Y5LBUVS1T8
For those interested, here are some unique photos of the only remaining complete Ta 152 (Ta 152 H-0), stored at the National Air and Space Museum (unfortunately the paint that you see is a mixture of different paint applications, the latest being from 1947). Note that much of the entire tail (aft of the fuselage plug) is made of wood, and as a result some easy to see preservation methods have had to be taken.
http://www.thomasgenth.de/html/tank_ta_152_h-0.html
Although I'm sure most have already seen it, this is the video that was posted to Youtube quite a while back, of an engine start that was performed with the Fw 190D-13 sometime in the 80's/90's, at the Champlin Fighter Museum (many years prior to its recent ground-up restoration). Notice how similar all of the sounds are to that of a DB-powered Me-109 (the long-nose Fw 190's being of course powered by inline Jumo engines). The only (and key) item missing from the aircraft (both before and after the restoration), is the complex Kommandogerät, which kept it from having engine runs (note in the video all they were able to do with it was start it and run it at idle), and keeps it of course from flying (though its rarity is usually the only item noted for it being ground-bound). The Flying Heritage Collection's airworthy, and flown, original Fw 190A-5 does have a fully restored operational Kommandogerät.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Y5LBUVS1T8
For those interested, here are some unique photos of the only remaining complete Ta 152 (Ta 152 H-0), stored at the National Air and Space Museum (unfortunately the paint that you see is a mixture of different paint applications, the latest being from 1947). Note that much of the entire tail (aft of the fuselage plug) is made of wood, and as a result some easy to see preservation methods have had to be taken.
http://www.thomasgenth.de/html/tank_ta_152_h-0.html
I almost wonder if at some point they had the other nose on the plane, (during a restoration stage) as I remember the spinner being more pointed. I remember examining this part of the plane rather closely because of the unusual annular radiator and almost radial engine like cowling on a V12. The paint job may have been a bit different as well, just light gray?
Don't ask me what day today is (here in japan or anywhere else....) Wonder if I took any photos that day? Remember film, I was lugging around a 6x6 Hasselblad in those days, I know I took photos at Pima Air Museum.
T
Don't ask me what day today is (here in japan or anywhere else....) Wonder if I took any photos that day? Remember film, I was lugging around a 6x6 Hasselblad in those days, I know I took photos at Pima Air Museum.
T
Cirrus N210MS
Charter Member
Looks amazing
Stickshaker
SOH-CM-2023
Matthias, would it be an option to release the Ta-152C as a paid-for upgrade? Even if it was not used operationally, it would be interesting to have the collection of 190’s that actually flew in more than prototype form complete.
grunau_baby
SOH-CM-2025
I guess this makes my entire year...
Best wishes
Alex
@ Bomber: John, thanks much for the additional snippets! I knew that the D-13 was newly being restored but wasn't fully aware that it's allready finished and back on display.
From the looks of it they did an exceptional job with this restoration, fixing the partial mess the first restoration left after the plane had been badly vandalized when it was stored on a meadow somewhere on the country side during the 60th. Good to hear also that it got it's native wings back.
Too bad they don't have the Motorbediengerät (what the item is called that would be the Kommandogerät on BMW801-equipped machines). Seems close to impossible to get that thing these days.
Stickshaker, the challenge is this:
Two aircraft are known to have been delivered to JG301, no photos exist, no combat records are known and it appears unlikely that they saw any use at all. Photos do exist of test aircraft though in various stages of "alikeness" to serial standards.
Mainteneance and pilot manuals as well as spare part lists exist only in snippets making it challenging to recreate the cockpit and some of the systems.
Test reports are incomplete either.
While each of the above mentioned points could be overcome by good measure and educated guesswork, in the summary it may not be enough to make it a Classics Hangar aircraft. However, final word is not spoken on the matter but I wouldn't hold my breath.
What might make me reconsidere is the fact that this one would be a truely outstanding aircraft at low to medium altitudes that would give any allied fighter a run for the money.
The D-11 ain't too shabby either!
Here's some unedited D-11 WIP shots.
It's very similar to the D-13 except armament and the lower panel that holds the inner geardoors which are somewhat simplified on the D-13.
D-11 changes over the D-9:
- New engine Jumo213F
- larger, oval shaped supercharger air intake
- upper nose guns removed, thus more streamlined cowling.
- Mk108 cannons added to the outer wings.
This one is shown with the old canopy.
Same aircraft with late style canopy.
Together with the D-9
Capture of the larger air intake.
Note undersurfaces partially unpainted bare metal as seen on a number of late war aircraft.
From the looks of it they did an exceptional job with this restoration, fixing the partial mess the first restoration left after the plane had been badly vandalized when it was stored on a meadow somewhere on the country side during the 60th. Good to hear also that it got it's native wings back.
Too bad they don't have the Motorbediengerät (what the item is called that would be the Kommandogerät on BMW801-equipped machines). Seems close to impossible to get that thing these days.
Stickshaker, the challenge is this:
Two aircraft are known to have been delivered to JG301, no photos exist, no combat records are known and it appears unlikely that they saw any use at all. Photos do exist of test aircraft though in various stages of "alikeness" to serial standards.
Mainteneance and pilot manuals as well as spare part lists exist only in snippets making it challenging to recreate the cockpit and some of the systems.
Test reports are incomplete either.
While each of the above mentioned points could be overcome by good measure and educated guesswork, in the summary it may not be enough to make it a Classics Hangar aircraft. However, final word is not spoken on the matter but I wouldn't hold my breath.
What might make me reconsidere is the fact that this one would be a truely outstanding aircraft at low to medium altitudes that would give any allied fighter a run for the money.
The D-11 ain't too shabby either!
Here's some unedited D-11 WIP shots.
It's very similar to the D-13 except armament and the lower panel that holds the inner geardoors which are somewhat simplified on the D-13.
D-11 changes over the D-9:
- New engine Jumo213F
- larger, oval shaped supercharger air intake
- upper nose guns removed, thus more streamlined cowling.
- Mk108 cannons added to the outer wings.
This one is shown with the old canopy.
Same aircraft with late style canopy.
Together with the D-9
Capture of the larger air intake.
Note undersurfaces partially unpainted bare metal as seen on a number of late war aircraft.
BTW, the eagle-eyed will have noticed that the right cooling flap at heigth of the exhaust stack is always fixed in the flush position.
They found out that this flap caused turbulences that led fumes into the intake effectively reducing the aircraft's critical altitude.
Keeping the flap flush increased critical altitude by a couple hundred meters.
They found out that this flap caused turbulences that led fumes into the intake effectively reducing the aircraft's critical altitude.
Keeping the flap flush increased critical altitude by a couple hundred meters.
Stickshaker
SOH-CM-2023
@ What might make me reconsidere is the fact that this one would be a truely outstanding aircraft at low to medium altitudes that would give any allied fighter a run for the money.
Matthias, that is exactly why I am interested in the -C. And with its heavy firepower it would have been a good bomber destroyer also. But I completely understand your reasoning for possibly not including it. You have to draw the line somewhere.
For customer who did pre-order of Dora, will be free gift like this:
;-))))))
LMAO! Now that's cool!
