stumpjumper1
Charter Member
well you know where i stand at stan, besides who else can make such good movies of my mustard gas and other mods lol:costumes:
Stan, shocked to hear you want to leave
You don't know me Stan,
but I sure as hell know you and all the wonderful things and movies that you have made and have always been most impressed at the gorges work you do. Our would would certainly be poorer for you going.
I echo the words of Nio's, Ousdogs, StumpJumpers, Capt Winters, Murry Cod, Polecat & Mustang and hope you will find it in your countenance to come and visit us at the Boys of 60 forum.
I for one would hate to loose the opportunity of seeing your talent and imagination. Your contributions would be sorely missed.
What ever is wrong, we can fix it. What ever is bad, we can make good.
Who ever did this to you, we will send the Boys. If you are Frazzed and worn out, we will help you rest with banter and good company.
Don't go Stan. Have a hot toddy and re-thing this thing.
Kind regards
Sir Rod.
You don't know me Stan,
but I sure as hell know you and all the wonderful things and movies that you have made and have always been most impressed at the gorges work you do. Our would would certainly be poorer for you going.
I echo the words of Nio's, Ousdogs, StumpJumpers, Capt Winters, Murry Cod, Polecat & Mustang and hope you will find it in your countenance to come and visit us at the Boys of 60 forum.
I for one would hate to loose the opportunity of seeing your talent and imagination. Your contributions would be sorely missed.
What ever is wrong, we can fix it. What ever is bad, we can make good.
Who ever did this to you, we will send the Boys. If you are Frazzed and worn out, we will help you rest with banter and good company.
Don't go Stan. Have a hot toddy and re-thing this thing.
Kind regards
Sir Rod.
gianlucabagatti
Charter Member
hi flyby, you gave so much to our beloved world of cfs3 and even if I respect middle so much as an admin I have to say: laws are made to be respected but sometimes we should be able to watch beyond... we will miss you so much. I still think you did what you did for good and still hope there could be a way to arrange that now or in the next future.my best regards, gianluca
M
Mad Dog
Guest
Thank you, and good night
SOH wont be the same with out you. Any chances of you changing your mind?
Thanks for all the times youve helped.
SOH wont be the same with out you. Any chances of you changing your mind?
Thanks for all the times youve helped.
BeauBrummie
Home for tea and tiffin!
Stan was one of the first buddies I made here, and will miss his illuminating posts. I hope to keep in contact with him personally and I'm sure he'd be touched by the comments made here. I can't speak here of his reasons for leaving, but they were important ones for him, so ta-ta mate and thanks for all the fish!
Beau
Beau
Sir Beau
If you allow me, Sir, I'd like to make mine your words about this great guy
Nonato
UnknownGuest12
New member
Just love these grandiose gestures....just go away and no need to tell your appreciated friends, why, who or what, offended my dear self...perhaps this way everybody will feel bad, perhaps a little guilty, and myself will always fly above the grey clouds.
Flyby, have no idea about your contributions, if you are a bad or good guy.
Find the vast majority of the people here, in the forums, and most of all, the Administrators, excellent persons beyond any repair. Some of them are just begging you to return.
So, would you be so kind and be more specific? You have all the right to go away, no one´s discussing that, but when you say nothing you´re accusing everybody.
best regards
Flyby, have no idea about your contributions, if you are a bad or good guy.
Find the vast majority of the people here, in the forums, and most of all, the Administrators, excellent persons beyond any repair. Some of them are just begging you to return.
So, would you be so kind and be more specific? You have all the right to go away, no one´s discussing that, but when you say nothing you´re accusing everybody.
best regards
sometimes theres no reason
"Live Well and Prosper." Always accompanied by the traditional Vulcan sign, Spock (Leonard Nimoy) and other Vulcans made this famous movie quote only second in popularity to "Beam me up, Scotty." The customary Vulcan phrase reminds of the peaceful nature of Vulcans and their humanity (but don't let Spock hear you say that). And it reminds us that even though they are supposedly non-emotional beings, even they have a sincere desire for others' happiness.
"Live Well and Prosper." Always accompanied by the traditional Vulcan sign, Spock (Leonard Nimoy) and other Vulcans made this famous movie quote only second in popularity to "Beam me up, Scotty." The customary Vulcan phrase reminds of the peaceful nature of Vulcans and their humanity (but don't let Spock hear you say that). And it reminds us that even though they are supposedly non-emotional beings, even they have a sincere desire for others' happiness.
cristiano103
Charter Member
Good Luck
Hi Flyby
I don't know You personally but I saw what You have done for this community and I can't believe that You are going to leave it.
You have certainly your reasons to do so and we have nothing to say but, let me say that it will be a sad loss for we all and You leave us with the doubt of what made You take that decision; if someone made something wrong with You I think it was made without intention and so it would be the right thing to let him know to avoid that it will happen with other again.
That's only my thought, the real things stay with You.
However, for whatever will be your new way, have good luck and may You always fly in clear skyes (but if You stay with us we shall be happier).
Cristiano
Hi Flyby
I don't know You personally but I saw what You have done for this community and I can't believe that You are going to leave it.
You have certainly your reasons to do so and we have nothing to say but, let me say that it will be a sad loss for we all and You leave us with the doubt of what made You take that decision; if someone made something wrong with You I think it was made without intention and so it would be the right thing to let him know to avoid that it will happen with other again.
That's only my thought, the real things stay with You.
However, for whatever will be your new way, have good luck and may You always fly in clear skyes (but if You stay with us we shall be happier).
Cristiano
the Dutchman
Members +
You either leave in silence or explain what your problem is,this is useless and gives room for speculations.......!?
I'm sure we will all listen to a highly respected member like you!
I'm sure we will all listen to a highly respected member like you!
F
flyby
Guest
OK fellas, I'll keep this brief.
First, I thank you sincerely for all your kind comments. I'm really quite humbled and more than a little embarrased to be held in such regard, and a mere 'thank you' doesn't seem to do it justice, - but thank you all the same.
I don't 'do' gestures Beaufighter, I left the SOH for good reason, I still feel the same, and do not expect I'll be back. Friends have urged me to explain myself, and against my better judgement I will do so.
I was gutted to learn our huge SOH database, spanning CFS3, CFS2, CFS1, FS2004, FSX etc had been lost, apparently forever. I cannot imagine a greater loss to our community. I know there was a lot of 'blethering' much of the time, but there was also layer upon layer of priceless expertise dedicated to keeping our systems working, a huge and intricate library of virtual experience and creativity, and all those spoken experiences of real veterans still amongst us. All of it gone.
I then became very uncomfortable to learn the reason this had happened was due to hosting the ETO release. As primarily a CFS3 player, I cannot help feeling a creeping sense of collective responsibility, - I believe we now owe our brothers across these wider forums a considerable and very humble apology.
I know and appreciate this was a terrible accident which many people bitterly regret happening, however the huge demand on bandwidth was definitely not an unforeseen issue. The huge initial demand on available bandwidth had swamped both OFF 1 & 2, and MAW on their release, despite the most dilligent preparations. How many times does this have to happen before the collective penny drops? We should have known better.
I won't point the finger, (there was more than one person anyway), but I found it rather distasteful that in the shadow of this disaster, people should comment to the effect that 'at least this problem showed the ETO was popular'. Hmmm, popular maybe, (and an excellent package I hugely admire) but all I was beginning to see was a monster I didn't recognise, which had just destroyed the living breathing soul of our forum.
The more I thought about it the angrier I got. The bandwidth issue was known, and better ways around the problem were known, - and known to work. The bit torrent which supported the MAW release was a tremendous success, and I remember the 'buzz' of watching well over 100 people at any one time download the release, getting faster and faster the more people who joined in. The busier it gets, the more and more efficient the torrent becomes. 'Unlimited download'is a term which means nothing, - ask the OFF team, - it's all about bandwidth. With torrenting, bandwidth is just not an issue.
I don't know whether it was already too late when he began, but it seemed to me Johann Steve had been alert to the problem, and one of the few prepared to actively help alleviate the problem by file sharing his own ETO copy. - Thus letting others obtain the ETO package from an additional source, sparing the overworked primary source and 'doubling' the number of available ETO download sources. He was using emule and quite open about it, (not a bit torrent as I initially understood), but the critical point was he was providing a new source for filesharing. Instead of supporting him however, he was condemned for doing this without permission, (the forum was in chaos you may recall), and ultimately banned for doing this. Though subjective perhaps, it seemed to me Johann Steve was the only person constructively helping, but was treated as if he was trying to steal the ETO and fire off bootleg copies. It was clear from his immediate comments he didn't understand he was doing anything wrong, and in the circumstances I do not believe he was. With the primary download collapsing, we needed a lot more Johann Steves, not the launching of attacks on the only help in town. Who was going to offer up their bandwidth after seeing what happened to Johann? Had we spread the burden of download more widely in the beginning, we just might have saved our forum. Johann Steve was condemned and banned. In my opinion this was inappropriate. What are our priorities here?
Running in parallel with the Johann Steve's file sharing issue, the Warfreak issue erupted. We all know Warfreak was a young gun prone to speaking out before his brain was fully in gear, but he is just a 14 year old, over enthusiatic kid needing some guidance on forum protocols, the like of which Dancat was (ok angrily) giving him in no uncertain terms. Happy to see that Dancat. The kid was a little shocked, but beginning to get the message I thought. However, following Warfreaks whinge about how long his ETO download was taking, a plan was hatched to get rid of him. I cannot show you the actual comments, because they appear in a private forum, but to quote one thread title 'Attenion XXX and others...I think I got Warfreak". - Yup, you sure did.
Cut a long story short, efforts set out to provoke a reaction from Warfreak, and ban him when he fell into the trap. You talk about dignity and respect? Want me to post the links? Well congratulations guys, you've proven yourselves smarter than an impressionable 14 year old kid, whom you've no doubt left very upset and bitter. Maybe he did need to tone down and think a bit more before he posted, but I cannot respect they way you went about getting rid of him. OK he swore, - (because you knew he would), and got offensive, - just like you all knew a 14 year old kid would - if you just kept pushing. He broke those rules so out he goes. Oh yeah, quote - "in three months he can email Ickie and grovel and snivel and beg forgiveness and promise not to do it again". - Hmmm, not if he's got any sense he won't.
It was right about then, that I decided it was time for me just to move on. I just felt very uncomfortable with all of this. That was all. I'm not intending to start a flame war, or huge debate, - it's not important for me anymore, I'm gone. It's your forum, run it how you like. I actually don't agree this disclosure will help, progress, or resolve anything. I actually think it can only make things worse, and that was not my intention. Next time somebody wants to walk away quietly, - you might want to think about letting them.
For the record, I'm not giving up flight sims, and I'm still looking forward to OFF3, but it's just the SOH which no longer feels like home.
I'm done. I would very much welcome this thread being closed now.
First, I thank you sincerely for all your kind comments. I'm really quite humbled and more than a little embarrased to be held in such regard, and a mere 'thank you' doesn't seem to do it justice, - but thank you all the same.
I don't 'do' gestures Beaufighter, I left the SOH for good reason, I still feel the same, and do not expect I'll be back. Friends have urged me to explain myself, and against my better judgement I will do so.
I was gutted to learn our huge SOH database, spanning CFS3, CFS2, CFS1, FS2004, FSX etc had been lost, apparently forever. I cannot imagine a greater loss to our community. I know there was a lot of 'blethering' much of the time, but there was also layer upon layer of priceless expertise dedicated to keeping our systems working, a huge and intricate library of virtual experience and creativity, and all those spoken experiences of real veterans still amongst us. All of it gone.
I then became very uncomfortable to learn the reason this had happened was due to hosting the ETO release. As primarily a CFS3 player, I cannot help feeling a creeping sense of collective responsibility, - I believe we now owe our brothers across these wider forums a considerable and very humble apology.
I know and appreciate this was a terrible accident which many people bitterly regret happening, however the huge demand on bandwidth was definitely not an unforeseen issue. The huge initial demand on available bandwidth had swamped both OFF 1 & 2, and MAW on their release, despite the most dilligent preparations. How many times does this have to happen before the collective penny drops? We should have known better.
I won't point the finger, (there was more than one person anyway), but I found it rather distasteful that in the shadow of this disaster, people should comment to the effect that 'at least this problem showed the ETO was popular'. Hmmm, popular maybe, (and an excellent package I hugely admire) but all I was beginning to see was a monster I didn't recognise, which had just destroyed the living breathing soul of our forum.
The more I thought about it the angrier I got. The bandwidth issue was known, and better ways around the problem were known, - and known to work. The bit torrent which supported the MAW release was a tremendous success, and I remember the 'buzz' of watching well over 100 people at any one time download the release, getting faster and faster the more people who joined in. The busier it gets, the more and more efficient the torrent becomes. 'Unlimited download'is a term which means nothing, - ask the OFF team, - it's all about bandwidth. With torrenting, bandwidth is just not an issue.
I don't know whether it was already too late when he began, but it seemed to me Johann Steve had been alert to the problem, and one of the few prepared to actively help alleviate the problem by file sharing his own ETO copy. - Thus letting others obtain the ETO package from an additional source, sparing the overworked primary source and 'doubling' the number of available ETO download sources. He was using emule and quite open about it, (not a bit torrent as I initially understood), but the critical point was he was providing a new source for filesharing. Instead of supporting him however, he was condemned for doing this without permission, (the forum was in chaos you may recall), and ultimately banned for doing this. Though subjective perhaps, it seemed to me Johann Steve was the only person constructively helping, but was treated as if he was trying to steal the ETO and fire off bootleg copies. It was clear from his immediate comments he didn't understand he was doing anything wrong, and in the circumstances I do not believe he was. With the primary download collapsing, we needed a lot more Johann Steves, not the launching of attacks on the only help in town. Who was going to offer up their bandwidth after seeing what happened to Johann? Had we spread the burden of download more widely in the beginning, we just might have saved our forum. Johann Steve was condemned and banned. In my opinion this was inappropriate. What are our priorities here?
Running in parallel with the Johann Steve's file sharing issue, the Warfreak issue erupted. We all know Warfreak was a young gun prone to speaking out before his brain was fully in gear, but he is just a 14 year old, over enthusiatic kid needing some guidance on forum protocols, the like of which Dancat was (ok angrily) giving him in no uncertain terms. Happy to see that Dancat. The kid was a little shocked, but beginning to get the message I thought. However, following Warfreaks whinge about how long his ETO download was taking, a plan was hatched to get rid of him. I cannot show you the actual comments, because they appear in a private forum, but to quote one thread title 'Attenion XXX and others...I think I got Warfreak". - Yup, you sure did.
Cut a long story short, efforts set out to provoke a reaction from Warfreak, and ban him when he fell into the trap. You talk about dignity and respect? Want me to post the links? Well congratulations guys, you've proven yourselves smarter than an impressionable 14 year old kid, whom you've no doubt left very upset and bitter. Maybe he did need to tone down and think a bit more before he posted, but I cannot respect they way you went about getting rid of him. OK he swore, - (because you knew he would), and got offensive, - just like you all knew a 14 year old kid would - if you just kept pushing. He broke those rules so out he goes. Oh yeah, quote - "in three months he can email Ickie and grovel and snivel and beg forgiveness and promise not to do it again". - Hmmm, not if he's got any sense he won't.
It was right about then, that I decided it was time for me just to move on. I just felt very uncomfortable with all of this. That was all. I'm not intending to start a flame war, or huge debate, - it's not important for me anymore, I'm gone. It's your forum, run it how you like. I actually don't agree this disclosure will help, progress, or resolve anything. I actually think it can only make things worse, and that was not my intention. Next time somebody wants to walk away quietly, - you might want to think about letting them.
For the record, I'm not giving up flight sims, and I'm still looking forward to OFF3, but it's just the SOH which no longer feels like home.
I'm done. I would very much welcome this thread being closed now.
Your Welcome
Very correct a Hugh lose but what it really pointed out that the backups of the system need to be modified to include a monthly or weekly back up to new media that is not over written. Plain and simple this will prevent the problem from happening on this scale again.
Johann Steve was unduly persecuted as far as I am concerned. The explanation given in the Respect and Dignity thread did not hold water. He did not as reported continue to post the availability of the download after he was warned instead the time line went like this.
September 30 2008, 14:28 post number 4 here Johann Steve posts he is sharing the files via eMule
September 30 2008 19:02 Post number 37 here Johann Steve posts in this thread he is sharing the file via eMule.
AT 18:49 and 19:07 rpb71854 rightfully asks that he discontinue sharing the file as he is in violation of the license agreement. (which he was) No arguments there.
September 30, 2008 @ 19:11 and 19:14 Johann Steve apologies in both threads and discontinues sharing the file (I am assuming).
I believe that he should be allowed back into the forums with an apologies from the Admins. He was wrong to share the file but considering all that was happening at that time it would not be unreasonable to forgive him for being overly helpful. It is not like he was sharing the file and posting it in another forum that it was available he announced it here at the Outhouse and was hiding nothing.
Do as you will but I stand behind my convictions that he was unfairly treated. Trust me I am a it's black or its white type of guy but I see a whole lot of gray here.
This is news to me but it explains some of the resposes that I saw that I took offense to. Clearly this individual needed a lesson in forum edict but now I see there are others who do as well. That is shameful behavior and adults should not be acting that way. You want to complain about how kids are today well you just messed that one up but good.
In the old database (now long gone) I remember reading someone posting (in the news hawks I think) If you have a problem with what a members saying take it off forum and send them a PM. That is what should have been done in this case.
I am not going to advise sending him an apology but the Admins should look into this {edit} (Baiting) and discipline the offending parties....OFF Forum. {edited for clarification}
Nope you have only helped raise the bar.
Take a vacation if you will.
Come back when you are well rested. This forum is not and will not be perfect but always evolving.
Thanks again for your help and advise (now in threads unaccessible)
Dave
PS you call that Brief ... :d
BeauBrummie
Home for tea and tiffin!
That is a nice and even handed summary Dave. I absolutely concur with Johann being reinstated (if he wants to come back).
As for Warfreak, that's a more tricky one. Nowadays 14 year olds are considered near adults by many (not me), but he didn't come over as a very mature 14. 14 year olds are not renown for their thinking ahead and reflecting, which is what we all should do before typing on a forum. So he should have been given a firm (non-abusive) warning. I've seen some chat posts my friend's teenage daughters send and they could make your hair curl, so maybe the kid was used to that stuff. For a number of people his complete insensitivity in the thread that involved Ed was too much. WF did have a number of folk speaking up for him, but in the end the hawks won. Some form of chastisement, showing the error of his ways was necessary. I gather Middle PM'd him and obviously we don't know what the tone or content of Middle's PM was to him was but from his posts, I guess it was some straight talking (no problem with that either), if however if he was wound up until he self distructed then shame on those who did it.
It's a big community with as is usual in such cases there are always some personality clashes. I must admit the WF's mails that I read put my back up just by their tone if not actual content. But that's the trouble with this form of communication, it's very 2-D and doesn't allow for the other subtler forms we all use on a day to day basis.
Admin have at times an unenviable job in the decisions they sometimes have to make, but others were involved here. We all have a responsibilty to ensure evenhandedness (is that a real word?) not just admin.
I'm saddened to lose Stan in this way but he has made us a bit more thoughtful, I hope.
Beau
As for Warfreak, that's a more tricky one. Nowadays 14 year olds are considered near adults by many (not me), but he didn't come over as a very mature 14. 14 year olds are not renown for their thinking ahead and reflecting, which is what we all should do before typing on a forum. So he should have been given a firm (non-abusive) warning. I've seen some chat posts my friend's teenage daughters send and they could make your hair curl, so maybe the kid was used to that stuff. For a number of people his complete insensitivity in the thread that involved Ed was too much. WF did have a number of folk speaking up for him, but in the end the hawks won. Some form of chastisement, showing the error of his ways was necessary. I gather Middle PM'd him and obviously we don't know what the tone or content of Middle's PM was to him was but from his posts, I guess it was some straight talking (no problem with that either), if however if he was wound up until he self distructed then shame on those who did it.
It's a big community with as is usual in such cases there are always some personality clashes. I must admit the WF's mails that I read put my back up just by their tone if not actual content. But that's the trouble with this form of communication, it's very 2-D and doesn't allow for the other subtler forms we all use on a day to day basis.
Admin have at times an unenviable job in the decisions they sometimes have to make, but others were involved here. We all have a responsibilty to ensure evenhandedness (is that a real word?) not just admin.
I'm saddened to lose Stan in this way but he has made us a bit more thoughtful, I hope.
Beau
Moparmike
Administrator
Warfreak had received several warnings from myself and other staffers previously about his language and attitude on the forum. His last outbreak was basically the straw that broke the camel's back.
the Dutchman
Members +
Impolite,impatient and improper behaviour seems common on forums across the boards with kids these days,hey if their parents didn't raise them properly someone has to,right?
