The OFF DiD Standard.

[Rick Rawlings]

Because it's not very realistic to have to find the control on a keyboard if the real ones were on a lever.

This is where you run into trouble. Everything is finding a control on a keyboard! These planes are fly by wire. As catch 22 reminded me above, I remember the RB3D boards years ago where people would argue every little bit of realism and forget that you don't actually die if you are shot.

Looking back at Mk2 saying that no warp was killing him, I thought about that a bit. Looking at his avatar and the N28 as his sig, I deduced that he was probably doing a lot of flying for the Hat-In-The-Ring squadron. Just for kicks, I started a US career in the first pursuit group and did a couple of missions. Cycling through, I found the shortest mission I could get was 244 miles. 244 miles! That's over three hours of flying. If he could somehow fly 1 mission a day real time, non-warp and had to fly three missions a day in game time to progress the campaign and started in September 1918, it would take him about eight months of his real life just to finish one campaign. And who can devote 3 hours a day to playing video games?

I understand you want to create a standard, but don't forget people like Mk2, who is a valuable and helpful member of this forum, or people like Over50 who contribute thoughtful input on other viewpoints.

I guess what I'm saying is just be careful you don't go from to , you would defeat part of what you were trying to accomplish.

respectfully,

RR

 

[Siggi]

This is where you run into trouble. Everything is finding a control on a keyboard! These planes are fly by wire. As catch 22 reminded me above, I remember the RB3D boards years ago where people would argue every little bit of realism and forget that you don't actually die if you are shot.

Looking back at Mk2 saying that no warp was killing him, I thought about that a bit. Looking at his avatar and the N28 as his sig, I deduced that he was probably doing a lot of flying for the Hat-In-The-Ring squadron. Just for kicks, I started a US career in the first pursuit group and did a couple of missions. Cycling through, I found the shortest mission I could get was 244 miles. 244 miles! That's over three hours of flying. If he could somehow fly 1 mission a day real time, non-warp and had to fly three missions a day in game time to progress the campaign and started in September 1918, it would take him about eight months of his real life just to finish one campaign. And who can devote 3 hours a day to playing video games?

I understand you want to create a standard, but don't forget people like Mk2, who is a valuable and helpful member of this forum, or people like Over50 who contribute thoughtful input on other viewpoints.

I guess what I'm saying is just be careful you don't go from to , you would defeat part of what you were trying to accomplish.

respectfully,

RR

But that's the same as saying DiD actually matters. Like people have to play it? Compelled, in order to validate their experience?

And if it is that important, and it does validate their experience, won't toning it down negate or dilute the very validation for which they're striving?

Classic Catch-22 methinks.

As I've said before, I really do appreciate the time issue. But the time issue is also a corner-stone of the standard. Whazzing around at light-speed totally diminishes the entire gig. It's about as divorced from the intended experience as a divorce could be. There are many knock-on effects involved as well.

Trust me, if you reach 17 hours, and those 17 hours took you only three or four hours of actual time, the satisfaction you thought you were going to feel will be very hollow in the final analysis. Some things truly have to be earned the hard way to hold any value. A career that consists of nothing but intense five or ten minute combats, with all the bits in-between conducted at warp-factor ten (Scotty), will count for nada.

It's easier for some people to use the standard, harder for others, and for a few it's impossible (your examples being two of them). That's just life I'm afraid. Bringing the standard down to meet the needs of the hardest-pressed would render it a non-standard, and then nobody would think it worth the bother.

Smokey, I believe "Normal" is considered "Realistic"?

 

[Rick Rawlings]

As I've said before, I really do appreciate the time issue. But the time issue is also a corner-stone of the standard. Whazzing around at light-speed totally diminishes the entire gig. It's about as divorced from the intended experience as a divorce could be. There are many knock-on effects involved as well.

Trust me, if you reach 17 hours, and those 17 hours took you only three or four hours of actual time, the satisfaction you thought you were going to feel will be very hollow in the final analysis. Some things truly have to be earned the hard way to hold any value. A career that consists of nothing but intense five or ten minute combats, with all the bits in-between conducted at warp-factor ten (Scotty), will count for nada.

That's fine Siggi, I understand where you're coming from. I have tried missions both ways (with and without warping) and I don't just agree with your asessment in terms of my feelings.

I don't really follow the whole non-warp point of view, anyway. The non-combat parts of OFF don't involve much in the way of skill. I presume everyone can take off and land and fly in gentle arcs, all day long if needed. I don't really agree with the fatigue argument, since you are sitting in a comfy chair in front of a screen using a joystick that in no way represents any of the physical strength needed to operate a real aircraft of the time. If people don't get tired sitting in front of a computer all day long for their jobs, well, no additonal skill needed. I will stipulate that your butt may get sore or your drink may grow empty. Couple that with the fact that the standard allows you to have the TAC on which alerts you to any and all aircraft that enter your zone and you would have to be almost willful to jumped outside of combat.

Now, I can certainly understand that warp may take you, Siggi, and others out of the experience of imagining that you are flying the great war, and that is certainly a real position, but it seems much more like a matter of choice than anything else. From my point of view, the skill difference between a person who warps and a person who doesn't is a big zip.

You mentioned that people may take more care when they fly in real time so as not to die and lose all the effort they have put into the character. While that may be true, all those reckless warpers will be rewarded by dying with much greater frequency. As I stated, since you will rarely, if ever, die outside of combat, I have no idea why anyone thinks it makes any difference for bragging rights or even just to share for fun...

The only difference between warp and non-warp that might alter my perception of a pilot is the possiblility of getting killed by flack, which I am not sure is possible under warp conditions. However, it is rare enough even flying in real time that it would seem a strange thing to base a standard on though.

I guess flying in real time doesn't indicate anything to me other than the pilot might be a bit masochistic

The best way to show your skill is to post combat videos, which are always entertaining and have been of remarkably high quality on this site!

But good luck to you and, as always, party on!

RR

As a final note, while I probably wouldn't mention DiD in my posts about my pilot anyway even if you changed the standard, but I did see that Mk2 had expressed interest and I do enjoy having reasonable discussions with people of different viewpoints, so thanks for the opportunity!

 

[british_eh]

Smokey and R Rawlings: I really am convinced...

that the DiD standard is a very significant value to have as a method of standardizing what we do. It isn't easy, nor should it be. However, there is one very real application that EVERYONE can achieve. DON'T fly by it. I mostly meet it, but Warp, so, well, just not up to DiD. However, the power of the PC will let me create one DiD standard pilot, in each Aircraft, or Squad that I wish. the rest, well, I can fly how I want. All the setting's can be changed, only takes a minute. Seeing some of the other comments on gun settings's perhaps I'll try them. In P2, used to fly my DR1 with "tight" setting for M gun. Will continue to do so, for my non DiD pilots.

Good points and all, and perhaps this is the route to an easy fix?

Cheers,

british_eh