Ukmil

[Stevo76]

Actually the entire scenery team quit today, therefore, you guys don't know the half.

Ben Hartmann

Hi Ben

The whole scenery team didnt quit today mate, Keith, Paul and Phil where still there and the scenery section was in good hands with them. 2 years ago there was only me there and before that ukmil was going along perfectly well on its own without any scenery section.

There can be no way by us 3 leaving, a site as big as ukmil can fall to peices so quickly, what does that say about the site. It's just sad.

read my post here http://forums.airshows.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=7416

 

[Scratch]

Nobody likes to have a free gift picked apart and criticised, but that certainly doesn't stop a lot of folks from doing it. I can sympathize with their frustration. What I don't agree with - at all - is this myth that creative personalities are somehow fragile or thin-skinned. It takes balls to keep putting your work out there day in and day out, knowing that some numbnuts is going to trash it in order to make himself feel better.

Not saying that UKMIL was justified, but I'm heartily refuting the idea that to be creative is to be somehow weak.

Thank God you are not weak! As much as you have done for us you quitting would be a huge loss. I hoist a glass of Red to you and look forward to your future creativity sir!:ernae:

 

[jdhaenens]

@ Stevo, John, and Ian: Thanks for your wonderful sceneries. I'll be really interested to see your new site as I am also a Historical Airport afficionado.

@ Dave: I also enjoyed your aircraft and best wishes for the future whatever it may bring.

@ Bill::kiss: ...lol

Jim

 

[Panther_99FS]

They definitely put out some fantastic scenery!

 

[Scratch]

Yup, a talented group for sure. I hope they will regroup after a short sabbatical.:woot:

 

[jojohnson9]

UK Mil's exit was quite dramatic. I might not be able to "build a pea", but I know what I like. I have tried many things from UkMil and have not kept them ... just did not like them. I guess I was not the only one who felt that way. I suppose with all the negative feedback they felt it was easier to fold their tent than it was to build a better airplane. Their choice, of course. But feedback (read criticism) both positive and negative serves to lead to a better product.

 

[srgalahad]

Not specifically about UKMIL...

Maybe it's just a different world, but having known some of those who have left over the years, I get the impression it's not about being criticized per se, but the balance that isn't there, nor is there the politeness.

There is a feeling that this being the internet, "I can say anything, and screw anyone who doesn't like it", a tendency to type before thinking, to press "send" before re-reading, and think that negative criticism will be taken positively because "that's how I intended it". However, in the anonymity of the internet we don't have to look someone in the eye when we tear down their work.

How often we've seen the comments, the gripes and yes, the well-meaning descriptions of flaws or oversights, and so often without a compensatory: "Thanks for the hours of work, the research and the desire to share, but..."

Even if you don't like it, honour the effort before the tirade or the picking of nits and maybe it will be taken in the spirit intended, but a hundred negative posts (anywhere) without the appreciation is most likely to offend/annoy/discourage. We've also seen that if a person defends their work they get told to 'get with the program' and 'come up to standards', or learn what your "customers" want and bloody well produce it (even, sadly on SOH). So what options do you have.. ignore the b*&chy comments and miss the good ones? Put up with flak from those who cannot, or will not do better? Or simply go and build model boats and live quietly...

Rob

 

[Stevo76]

Thanks jdhaenens I'll let you know when the site is ready.

I would just like to say on a friendly note, on behalf of myself and on behalf of John and Ian that we do 100% refute the fact that the site closed because we left, its just ridiculous and is a scape goat for the real reason the site was closed. The ironic thing is as far as we where aware we left on good terms the announcement saying nothing but good things about the site and people on it. The mind boggles!!

Misinformation can be a dreadful thing and unless all the facts are known things shouldn't be written.

Stevo

 

[Henry]

They just need a little pub time as do we all occasionally:ernae:
Currently I'm enjoying some Murphy's Red for the first time. Not too bad I might say:ernae:

that sounds great to me:ernae:
I guess we do not know the real reason
its still sad!
and gents dont let thisget to a point where i have to call in the local bobbies
cos i have a few friends in the Norfolk Joint Police
H

 

[stiz]

I am creative for a living (and have been for a long long time), and have learned over the years to take criticism in stride. Anyone can visit my site (second link in my sig) and critique my work as much as they like, here or anywhere. If I decide to agree with them or get discouraged and close down, that's my fault not theirs. You're right in that I may not know all the particulars of this specific case, but based on the grandiose farewell note it certainly appears that community crit "forced" the closure... it even says as much. As a professional creative type myself, that comes off as rather weak.

I'm sorry you took my post in a bad light, no offense intended of course. If this is as it appears, then it just bothers me that any creative person would fold up shop and blame others for their own lack of self esteem.

Again, if I'm totally wrong on this for lack of a deeper understanding of this particular circumstance... my apologies and nothing personal.

thing is, its different when your not being paid to do it

Try doing an FSX model during your free time and then release it for free, totally different than doing something for money

 

[SkippyBing]

thing is, its different when your not being paid to do it

Try doing an FSX model during your free time and then release it for free, totally different than doing something for money

Not, really. To be honest the closing down note seemed rather self serving and I think puts a bad light on something that could have been handled in a far more mature manner.

 

[datter]

thing is, its different when your not being paid to do it

Try doing an FSX model during your free time and then release it for free, totally different than doing something for money

Well I would argue that point as well in as much as I've done a lot of freeware type work for various things in the past, including acting as an unpaid art director for an MMP flight sim some years ago. Critique is opinion, and nothing more... sometimes delivered well, and more often stated harshly. The difference isn't in getting paid, it's in having the wherewithal in yourself as a creative person to be able to carry on in the face of negative commentary. I think it partly comes from just who the creative person is trying to please. My paid work is to please clients of course, but my personal work is to please me. As such, I need to be happy with the end result and will hear any criticisms, while not necessarily listening to them. It's all in your personal attitude as a creative guy.

Anyway, my comments earlier in the thread were based soley on the grandoise suicide/farewell note and not any real knowledge of the situation and people leaving etc. Just going by the note, there was a failure of self-esteem which ended in a public outcry of blame, that in all honesty was likely as much a plea for attention as was the initial efforts in being creative. If that's the case it was wrongheaded from the start.

I'll refrain from further commentary however, though I'd be interested in talking to whoever made the decision to close down.

 

[tigisfat]

I have to agree with Datter.

People whine a lot. I'm a musician that plays live constantly. People either love us or they hate us. Many people feel free to openly trash my creations that come from the heart. I simply deal with it.

Even payware developers get angry when a paying customer publically complains about their product. They seem to think a paying customer 'owes them' the right to try to fix it before hand. All this is bunk; in theory however, we should be nicer about free products. When noone is making money, the consumer does 'owe' the developer something.

I wasn't much one for UKMIL's products, but I'm glad they were around. If you really think about it, their freeware (that some thought wasn't up to par) was better than the payware of three years ago.

 

[Bjoern]

My suggestion: If you´re into this, either for free or comercially, dump the dumb idea that everyone is going to praise your work, LEARN from what they have to say,and listen, listen, listen....

The wisest words I've heard in a while. Kudos!


There's truth in every complaint, regardless of how immaturely it is composed.

 

[CG_1976]

Ukmil is open. I just accessed the site home page.

 

[kilo delta]

"MPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT!
NOTICE it seems I cannot win this issue. I closed the site, and now i get threats to return all the subscriptions! SO I have reopened the site, and you may download the files you paid for, but that is where this site remains. you will still have LIFETIME access to CLUB Files, and use of the server, but there will be no new products, and no forum.
I closed this site NOT because the scenery Guys left, that was just the last straw in a long line. I am sick of getting abuse from people over the aircraft products I produced. So this site will now remain static."

as found on the ukmil homepage

 

[gera]

Not specifically about UKMIL...

Maybe it's just a different world, but having known some of those who have left over the years, I get the impression it's not about being criticized per se, but the balance that isn't there, nor is there the politeness.

There is a feeling that this being the internet, "I can say anything, and screw anyone who doesn't like it", a tendency to type before thinking, to press "send" before re-reading, and think that negative criticism will be taken positively because "that's how I intended it". However, in the anonymity of the internet we don't have to look someone in the eye when we tear down their work.

How often we've seen the comments, the gripes and yes, the well-meaning descriptions of flaws or oversights, and so often without a compensatory: "Thanks for the hours of work, the research and the desire to share, but..."

Even if you don't like it, honour the effort before the tirade or the picking of nits and maybe it will be taken in the spirit intended, but a hundred negative posts (anywhere) without the appreciation is most likely to offend/annoy/discourage. We've also seen that if a person defends their work they get told to 'get with the program' and 'come up to standards', or learn what your "customers" want and bloody well produce it (even, sadly on SOH). So what options do you have.. ignore the b*&chy comments and miss the good ones? Put up with flak from those who cannot, or will not do better? Or simply go and build model boats and live quietly...

Rob

Rob, you are totally right. Some people simply write with their fingers but not with their minds......something like this happened to the great Mike Stone who got tired of all the stupidities he got, and all his planes were FREE!!!!!!!!!...some people in the net just belong in a large trashcan full or rats..........

 

[MikeH]

It's a real shame that UKMIL has closed it's doors. I'm sure that UKMIL's supporters far outweighed the detractors. Unfortunately it didn't come across that way in the closing message.

This is such a difficult subject. Do you critcise a product, free or otherwise, because you feel the need to rivet count and nothing less than perfect will do, or do you criticise a product to give 'feedback' and help a developer to improve his/her product?

The problem is that there is a very fine line between a ''nudge of encouragement' and 'slagging someones hard work off'.

UKMIL has given me a lot of pleasure. I don't have the skill/patience to model aircraft or build scenery but tried to help out where I could i.e. taking airfield photos for scenery builder's to use as reference work. Shame it's gone but I wish all of it's crew the best for the future.

Mike

 

[Henry]

You have to have a thick skin
to be in any sort of art
but bottom line is
manners maketh Man
One should always thank one for a gift
if you dont like it
just put it in the closet just like the ties me mum gives me
there is never a reason to hurt others
H

 

[gera]

I belong to a Developers group and I can tell you that most of what I have learned has come from this group, not tutorials, manuals, or anything. FS Developers have been to me the kindest people around......I hope the best for UKMIL.