What is it with MSFS and taildraggers?

K5083 said:
I remain agnostic as to whether it is sudden rudder authority or something else that kicks in at 40 kts and induces the veer. To me it is just an "invisible hand." It does not act like it is related to power setting, to rudder deflection, or to wind.
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I think the "invisible hand" can only be the tailwheel steering effectiveness. I misunderstood the contact points definitions earlier and your interpretation is correct - the longer the tailwheel is in contact with the ground, the more steering control you should have, but the max_speed_full_steering and max_speed_decreasing_steering figures are incorrect for taildraggers and that's why we get the "invisible hand" causing uncontrollable veering off the runway.

So what I've actually changed in my settings is that the tailwheel stays at maximum effectiveness until the tail lifts and the sim responds fully to rudder input for steering/yaw control.
 
Alan: Yes, I never saw that thread, but I understand about the rudder sensitivity. I think it might be dialed down to about 5x what it should be rather than 10x since SU4, but it's still too much. You can dial down the sensitivity of your rudder pedals, but since you also use them for tailwheel steering, that kills your steering. My solution, since I got an X56, has been to map a mini-stick to the rudder as well as my pedals. The pedals are dialed way down in sensitivity for controlling the actual rudder, and I use the mini-stick as a tiller to steer the nose/tailwheel when it is on the ground. If you have a twist axis on your joystick that you don't use because you have pedals, that could also be made into a tiller.

Tiger, I'm looking forward to trying your steering speed adjustment and seeing if it helps me to keep the aircraft centered until there's enough rudder authority. In an hour or so I "get home from work" (i.e., unplug the zoom mic and cam, and plug in the game controllers) and can try this out. Will report on results, especially with port-overs.

August
 
Hello,

I used this method to adjust the behavior of the Menestrel HN-433/434 and the result is almost perfect !
As it is, I can get it to take off with a minimum of correction on the rudder (it's only a 32hp VW) and on landing the width of the runway is more than sufficient, I would say even half the width.

I will publish a v1.6.0 with this flight model and some corrections on altimeter function, exterior beacon apparence is also better :applause:
 
That's great news! I look forward to flying the Menestrel again in MSFS. I also have fond memories of the Druine Turbulent by frenchvfr... :encouragement:
 
Here is kind of a stupid and obvious trick, but one which I took a while to catch on to, for controlling these crazy veers more easily.

Go to General Options/Camera and switch "Camera Shake" to OFF in the cockpit camera.

This is the option that bumps your virtual head around in response to aircraft movement. The worst thing about it is that besides shifting the eyepoint, it also rotates your view on the bank axis (like you are cocking your head). The other stuff I can put up with, but in real life, I have never encountered an acceleration that has caused me to tilt my head to the side like that. Or if it does, my brain corrects for it without me ever noticing.

The effect of this is to exaggerate deviations from straight and level, causing you to overcorrect. With respect to the bank angle, in the heat of the moment it is easy not to notice that what is tilting is not the horizon relative to the cockpit, it is the cockpit relative to your monitor, which requires no control correction.

I had this same issue with Accu-Feel in P3D and FSX, too, and turned off this one feature of that add-on, which I otherwise like a lot.

As a TrackIR user, I already get plenty of immersive eyepoint movement from my unconscious head movements, often in instinctive reaction to what is happening in the plane, so I don't need Camera Shake to exaggerate it. I can see that Camera Shake might add realism if you don't have head tracking or VR.

August
 
I'm starting to get a bit of the impression that with the SU5, this behavior and the oversensitivity of the rudder has been slightly improved (or maybe I'm lucky that I still encounter a lack or a very weak wind in my Real Weather :biggrin-new:).
 
PRB said:
All the default tail dragger A/C seem manageable. The two that I have that are difficult to handle are the Flying Iron Spitfire and the Milviz Corsair. But it doesn't seem to me that it's the rudder authority that kicks in at ~40 knots, but the torque or p-factor, or whatever it is that causes the plane to swing left. If you just motor on down the runway with no rudder input, it will go straight until about 40 knots, then you're along for the ride. And it isn't crosswind, as others have pointed out. I've managed to tame the Spitfire during take off by setting 7 degrees right rudder trim before takeoff. During the take off roll, apply back elevator and right aileron. She takes off with no fuss at all. Landings are still "expensive" though... I wish there was a way to observe the aerodynamic data in the sim. FS9/X/P3D have a nice program for that. Forget the name of it. Then we could see what's "kicking in" at 40 knots. There is supposed to be a "virtual wind tunnel" available if you're in dev mode but I haven't been able to get it to work.
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AFSD will allow you to monitor the data.

Flight Simulator Aircraft Dynamics and NavData (sors.fr)
 
Btw. do you know something more about it? Asobo/Microsoft working on it? I dont know that its reported already on Forum or Zendesk of MSFS.
Maybe we can vote for solving this issue?
 
I need more practice with tail draggers myself. I can take off fine, but the last time I flew the Xcub, I ground looped it on landing. I managed to keep it from completely spinning around, but I ended up swinging around and off the runway at a right angle.
 
Microsoft/Asobo have mentioned that there will be new updates to the overall flight dynamics coming as a result of the work done on the Reno Air Races addon being released this fall. I'm hoping that means improvements to the flight and ground handling dynamics of taildraggers, and especially high-performance taildraggers.
 
Bomber_12th said:
Microsoft/Asobo have mentioned that there will be new updates to the overall flight dynamics coming as a result of the work done on the Reno Air Races addon being released this fall. I'm hoping that means improvements to the flight and ground handling dynamics of taildraggers, and especially high-performance taildraggers.
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LOL, right, without it, it would be really fun with machines with such engines and so much power. I hope they will do something with this https://youtu.be/Vsmr339kx8c finally. You can train and improve your technique, but it cannot be denied that the landing and take-off component in MSFS is the worst part of this simulator I know (even if we compare other simulators like FSX, P3D, IL-2, DCS).
 
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