Wilco Harrier (Download version released!)

[Chris Sykes]

No, this has me stumped ....:isadizzy:
First of all, when you have an axis for Prop lever on your stick (and actually use it), there's no point in using these "snap" keystrokes as well; reason for that is, that if you use a keystroke, obviously the lever is in the wrong position afterwards; even worse, if the lever "jitters" even a little bit in that position (which is quite normal if the lever is not in its idle position), FS immediately reacts to it and sets the new position again as dictated by the lever.

To exclude this possibility, can you please test the following exactly as described:

1. IMPORTANT: Remove ALL possible assigments to "Propeller axis" and "Engine 1 Propeller Axis"
For ALL controllers that FSX sees (under ControllerType).

2. Load the Harrier fresh, via menu Aircraft. Without doing anything else.

3. Open the VTOLgauge 2D window.
The green needle should indicate 0 degrees. Right ?

4. Now, press CTRL+F1 a few times, and after each keypress, observe the position of the green needle. At each keystroke it should progress to the next dotted green line.
(resp. at 50, 80, and 98 degrees).
If it doesn't, what values do you read on the display after each keypress ??

5. Same as 4. but now starting from full nozzles (98), and using CNTR+F4.

Maybe it appears you've already done this test, but I want to make sure that:
- The problem isn't caused by a Prop lever "jittering"; because there's nothing I can do about that.
- That this occurs also right after initial load, without having done anything with PropPitch or STOlever in the VC.
I'm afraid this is the only way I can pinpoint this problem, because (as far as I know) you appear to be the only person having this problem at the moment. By the way, that doesn't exclude the possibility of a "bug"; just that "something" behaves different on your setup, making it happen like you describe.
And I surely want to find out what's causing it .... So you have my full attention

Rob

PS:
Just some additional info: the problem of "jittering" controller axis interfering with keystroke commands for the same function, is as old as FS itself. (not saying this is the case here of course).
I don't know how long you are a MSFS user, but if you have used various FS versions the frequently reported problem from users that can't activate "reverse thrust" on big airliners via F2, might ring a bell; and is another well-known example of the same problem: a "jittering" Throttle lever overriding F2 (Decrement throttle) commands, thus preventing activation of "reverse thrust".

Hi Rob, got me too! I have even redownloaded and reinstalled! I have done as you asked, had already tried without the axis assignment, here is what i got.

1. Done
2. Check
3. Check, 0 Degrees showing
4. First Ctrl+F1= 50 Degrees Second Ctrl+F1 = 98.5 Degrees! No more changes...
5. First Ctrl+F1= 0 Degrees, doesnt stop at any in between

Any further Ctrl+F1/F4 go from 0 to 98.5 and back...

No jittering experienced with the Axis assigned only when the null was moved...

Also i disabled all the DLL's and EXE's except the Harrier Hud from running... Im stumped!

 

[Stickshaker]

The HUD was created using two things. The first is Eric Marciano's excellent HUD gauge system, for which we were not responsible, the second is the simple 3D "collimated" HUD geometry for which we were. Until somebody develops a gauge solution for collimation that's the way it is done. This is what I meant by "in the constraints of FSX".

If it is not to people's liking, it needs to be adjusted, which we can certainly do in the upgrade. However, I do wish poeple would not keep calling it "collimated". Three dimesnional "focus" is not possible in two dimensional pixel worlds like FSX. Can you imagine what would be possible of it were? I'm talking about non-gadget, non-Track IR, just straight FSX as you see it out of the box.

The current solution is crafty and simple but it is not true collimation. It simply positions the HUD further out from the nose of the aircraft on a visual plane which is animated and set at the eyepoint.

Track IR is a brilliant thing but it is sometimes a double-edged sword for developers. We cannot keep cramming in more and more detail to VCs for example, to suit Track IR users. Sooner or later we'll be modeling the nuts around the back of the instrument panel that hold it on!

My point there is that we set the HUD up for people without Track IR. If you'd like it further out, that's an easy fix. But it is not true collimation.

Barry, thanks for the answer. It’s not the focus to infinity that matters, it is the fact that the horizon line etc. do not remain in the right position relative to the outside world if you move your head. All recent payware products that I know of deliver on this and it is the accepted interpretation of ‘collimated’, also in this FSX forum. The focal point issue is irrelevant as far as I know since in a sim the inside and outside world are at the same distance from the viewer, except when you have a projection screen or something like that.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>
I find the reasoning rather strange that you are not responsible for parts that you use in your product. If you let a contractor build a house for you, do you accept that the heating is not working because a subcontractor installed it so the main contractor is not responsible?<o></o>
And if you design a payware product for serious simmers while assuming that they do not use TrackIR it is perhaps a good idea to make this very clear to everyone who is tempted to buy it. <o></o>
<o> </o>

 

[rcbarend]

Hi Rob, got me too! I have even redownloaded and reinstalled! I have done as you asked, had already tried without the axis assignment, here is what i got.

1. Done
2. Check
3. Check, 0 Degrees showing
4. First Ctrl+F1= 50 Degrees Second Ctrl+F1 = 98.5 Degrees! No more changes...
5. First Ctrl+F1= 0 Degrees, doesnt stop at any in between

Any further Ctrl+F1/F4 go from 0 to 98.5 and back...

No jittering experienced with the Axis assigned only when the null was moved...

Also i disabled all the DLL's and EXE's except the Harrier Hud from running... Im stumped!

Hi Chris,
Since you appear to be the only user (sofar) with this problem, I need to do some serious thinking what might cause this on your PC.
Especially since the first time works diffrently then the next times you try.

One more question:
- Do you have a registered version of FSUIPC ?
- And if so, does it have any functions on, like suppression of continous events, or axis-smooting for the proppitch axis ??
I believe the registered version of FSUIPC has such functions, and (when used) might interfere with how my code works.
- To exclude this possibility (ONLY if you have the registered version), what you can try:
While FSX is not running, temporarily move the FSUIPC.dll out of the \Modules folder to somewhere outside the FSX folder structure. Then start FSX and try the test again.
(of course VTOL won't work now, but it's only trying to find out IF FSUIPC has anything to do with it). Because if so, I'm sure I can make a workaround.

Rob

 

[bazzar]

Excuse me for butting in here chaps but could it be that you are moving the STO lever to different positions each time? If you are then the snap function keystrokes will place the nozzles lever at the position you left the STO.

 

[bazzar]

Barry, thanks for the answer. It’s not the focus to infinity that matters, it is the fact that the horizon line etc. do not remain in the right position relative to the outside world if you move your head. All recent payware products that I know of deliver on this and it is the accepted interpretation of ‘collimated’, also in this FSX forum. The focal point issue is irrelevant as far as I know since in a sim the inside and outside world are at the same distance from the viewer, except when you have a projection screen or something like that.<!--?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /--><o></o>
I find the reasoning rather strange that you are not responsible for parts that you use in your product. If you let a contractor build a house for you, do you accept that the heating is not working because a subcontractor installed it so the main contractor is not responsible?<o></o>
And if you design a payware product for serious simmers while assuming that they do not use TrackIR it is perhaps a good idea to make this very clear to everyone who is tempted to buy it. <o></o>
<o></o>

Firstly, by "responsible" I mean that we did not build the HUD, that is all. Of course we are responsible for the end product, that is why we do patches and upgrades. Thankyou for your analogy of the building trade but after 12 successful years in this business I do understand what the word "responsible" means.

Secondly, The HUD is made with the exact same system everyone else is using.It is a simple business of varying the distance of the "projection"screen from the HUD screen that provides the illusion of depth and movement relative to your eyeline.

To prove to you that we have used this common system, the HUD itself, using this system will "float" as the aircraft moves about its horizontal axis. If you look closely, when you say,climb, you will see the HUD "slide"down the HUD screen.

All that remains is to make the distance of the floating screen appropriate to the aircraft and eyepoint so that you can move your eyepoint and see the HUD move with it.

For your purposes we have not moved it further out. That is all that is "wrong" here and has nothing to do with "serious simmers", Track IR or anything else. The distance has been altered and will be available to you in the next upgrade, probably at the end of this week.

 

[peter12213]

Just to butt in also but I'm using windows 7 64Bit with GTS250 with FSUIPC4.30 registered and I have 3 settings for nossles using ctrl F1/F4 Using the nossle preset leaver I can choose which position in degrees I want for the First hit of ctrl+F1, Everything working fine here an absolute dream! :salute:

 

[bazzar]

Thanks Pete. An enterprising owner with paint skills could set up their own STO lever positions for various manoeuvres and record them on the quadrant for further future use....

I guess we could include the quadrant texture in the painkit (?)

 

[bazzar]

For those interested, the auxilliary intake doors now work as they should.

Shots show, 1) Engine off with the doors flopped shut from about halfway down.2) Engine running on ground, doors opened by suction. 3) About 120kias pressure equalising 4) Normal flight, intake pressure closed doors.

Hope that will fit the bill.

 

[AndyE1976]

Looks good to me!

Do you know when the update will be released?

 

[peter12213]

Yeah thats it, not that I was bothered either way, but thats how it should be mate! Looks awesome!!! Just one thing to ask, more as a pilot than anything else but what fuel setting do you guys find best for carrier landings with tanks and Aim9's? Around 20 30 to 40% fuel?

I flew a sortie from Yeovilton with minimal fuel and think it was 30 for the centres and 15 for wings and did not run out, just interested what you guys are using!

 

[vonstroheim]

CF Wilco Harrier

...We're still working on the paintkit, hope to have it up tomorrow.

It's going to be much easier with the paint kit for sure... In the meantime, slapping some CF mapple leaves here and there is fun! 'Roos (RAAF) and kiwis (RNZAF) coming... why not RNLAF... landing on a NL2000 oil rig is fun with the Wilco Harrier too!

 

[peter12213]

What have you done to my baby Ludovic lol!

 

[Ian Warren]

Its well tried and tested with multiplay in New Zealand :salute:

 

[bazzar]

Wow!!!!

 

[bazzar]

Paintkit will now be included in the upgrade which should be up later this week or very early next.

 

[Chris Sykes]

Hi Chris,
Since you appear to be the only user (sofar) with this problem, I need to do some serious thinking what might cause this on your PC.
Especially since the first time works diffrently then the next times you try.

One more question:
- Do you have a registered version of FSUIPC ?
- And if so, does it have any functions on, like suppression of continous events, or axis-smooting for the proppitch axis ??
I believe the registered version of FSUIPC has such functions, and (when used) might interfere with how my code works.
- To exclude this possibility (ONLY if you have the registered version), what you can try:
While FSX is not running, temporarily move the FSUIPC.dll out of the \Modules folder to somewhere outside the FSX folder structure. Then start FSX and try the test again.
(of course VTOL won't work now, but it's only trying to find out IF FSUIPC has anything to do with it). Because if so, I'm sure I can make a workaround.

Rob

Hi rob,

Yes i have it registered but from IIRC i font have any of those you mentioned but will check... Ill remove FSUIPC from FSX but what should be happening when i do?

Regards

Chris

 

[rcbarend]

Hi rob,

Yes i have it registered but from IIRC i font have any of those you mentioned but will check... Ill remove FSUIPC from FSX but what should be happening when i do?

Regards

Chris

It is just to check whether FSUIPC has anything to do or not, with this funny CTRLF1/F4 behaviour you observe.
So just MOVE the file fsuipc.dll from the \Modules folder to a folder outside the FSX tree structure (so FSX can't find/load it). DOn't DELETE the file, just move it.
Then start FSX. load the Harrier, and do the CNTR+F1/F4 test again.
- If it works OK now, we know there is a relation with how FSUIPC works (NOT saying it's a bug in FSUIPC, just a clash of functionalities). And I have to find out why.
- If it's still the same problem, at least I know it has nothing to do with FSUIPC functionality.

After you've done the CNTR+F1/F4 test, exit FSX and move the file FSUIPC.dll back into the /Modules folder again.

Rob

 

[Chris Sykes]

For those interested, the auxilliary intake doors now work as they should.

Shots show, 1) Engine off with the doors flopped shut from about halfway down.2) Engine running on ground, doors opened by suction. 3) About 120kias pressure equalising 4) Normal flight, intake pressure closed doors.

Hope that will fit the bill.

Looking good on the intake doors!!! Is there possiblity of having more varied/custom loadouts? Would be cool to zoom around with 4x rocket pods instead of 2...

Thanks Rob, will be checking this out ASAP!

 

[svenks]

What fun to fly!

Hi Guys
I don't show up too often in these forum, but this seems to be the place for Harrier Praise & Support.
First the Praise: I think you've done a bl**dy marvellous job here. I've tried a couple of other Harrier 'hacks', but this actually feels right (AFAIK). It's still not easy to land vertically, but that also feels right. Did a flight Stornoway-Bergen and then all the way up to Cape North at low altitude and 500 kts - great fun. And of course, I did a couple of landings on my way just to check it out!
Then a few questions/comments:
1) My HYD LOW light is always on - what can I do?
2) Once you have selected a target, the rectangle stays on the HUD, even if your target is now 100+ miles behind you. It's not a biggie, but it is annoying as it flipping up and down and from side to side of the HUD.

BRGDS
Sven Sorensen, EKCH

 

[bazzar]

Hi Sven,

The hydraulics are cured by navigating to the [Hydraulics] section in the Aircraft CFG.

and using this value:

normal_pressure=3000.000000

During all the to and fro of editing FDs, the poor old thing lost all its hydraulics!

The collimation is being revised for the HUD so things will change there.