Windows 7 Support to End

[SW]

Thanks for the heads up! Classicshell was discontinued a while ago and I had not heard of Start10. Just purchased the full package!

Hmm, I wasn't aware of Classicshell being discontinued ("As of December 2017, Classic Shell is no longer in active development").

It turns out it lives on as "Open Shell", you can get it from:

https://github.com/Open-Shell/Open-Shell-Menu

or

https://open-shell.github.io/Open-Shell-Menu/

I'm not familar with Start10, I'll have to have a look at it.

Cheers,

SW

 

[Daube]

Hi guys,

Just a question out of curiosity from my part: what does this "classic shell" bring exactly, compared to the Windows 10 shell ?
So far, after switching from Windows 7 to Windows 10 last year, the only difference I noticed was the start menu, which is now in alphabetical order, and yes I prefered the Win7 one but that one is not too bad.

What else am I missing ? Excepted the start menu, my Windows 10 desktop looks exactly like my Windows 7 deskptop, which looked mostly like my Windows XP and Vista desktop, which looked almost identical to my Windows 98 and 95 desktops...

When I read your comments here, it feels like your Windows 10 desktops are totally different from mine...

 

[zswobbie1]

I'm also a bit confused as to how, apart from the Start Menu, how different the desktop looks, as compared to the older operating systems.

from http://www.classicshell.net/

 

[Jafo]

Dunno how big this turns out...but it's a side-by-side comparison of Start10 with the default Win 10. Start10 was specifically intended to restore the perfectly good and familiar GUI interaction found in Win 7, with its origins several versions prior...so everyone knew it...and where to find things.
Win 10's GUI was 'optimized' [and dumbed-down] for a touch-screen environment which inadvertently [perhaps] caused a longer click-through process to get anywhere compared with the tried-and-true 7 ...

 

[Mick]

... Would a purchase of Win7 disc now be ok to install after M$ withdraw support ?

Sorry for the belated reply.

My understanding is that when M$ releases a new OS, all sellers' licenses for thew previous system are voided as a condition of getting a license for the new OS. If this is correct, then nobody was licensed to sell Win7 once Win10 was released. And of course M$ won't sell any OS except their current product.

When my WinXP rig went belly up I wanted to replace it with a new custom built XP rig, but Win7 was the current OS and it was no longer possible to obtain a clean copy of XP. AS the only way to get XP was to buy a black market copy that might be infected with who knows what, I was forced to upgrade to Win7.

As far as I know, the only way to build a new rig with an older OS is to extract the OS from your old rig, and that only works if your present rig's license isn't keyed to the serial number of your present processor, which most usually are.

This is what I was told by my friend who is a professional computer techie. When he rebuilt my Win7pro rig, the only way he could do it was by using the same processor, which thankfully is pretty powerful despite its age.

 

[tommieboy]

Add to that, that you are only allowed x amount of re-installs / re-activations due to hardware upgrades before you need to purchase a new license.

 

[Jafo]

This is what I was told by my friend who is a professional computer techie. When he rebuilt my Win7pro rig, the only way he could do it was by using the same processor, which thankfully is pretty powerful despite its age.

Hardware replacement using the same OS key can be a pain in the bum but it's doable....done it myself several times. Minor differences such as an added HD are ignored...but biggest 'issue' is when a MoBo is swapped out....had to do that once when one went belly-up and was replaced with an identical one...still needed an ET-phone-home call to MS to accept the new hardware code...

As for out-of-date OS's ....further you go away from the 'high street' department stores the longer the Older OS can be found still available for sale....

https://www.ebay.com.au/b/Microsoft-Windows-7-Operating-System-Software/11226/bn_16499590

 

[Daube]

Dunno how big this turns out...but it's a side-by-side comparison of Start10 with the default Win 10. Start10 was specifically intended to restore the perfectly good and familiar GUI interaction found in Win 7, with its origins several versions prior...so everyone knew it...and where to find things.
Win 10's GUI was 'optimized' [and dumbed-down] for a touch-screen environment which inadvertently [perhaps] caused a longer click-through process to get anywhere compared with the tried-and-true 7 ...

Is that all ?
The interface is "dumbed down" because there are icons in it ?
Do you know you can choose them, rearrange them, and more importantly, choose between "big" and "small" size for each ? (on your screenshot the icons are set to big).
If anything, the start menu actually looks more usable in the Win10 version, actually :/

 

[Jafo]

Daube.... I think you're missing a bit. What's gone is those painful 'tiles'....the hunt and seek process to ever find access to a control panel....the 'where T F' is the 'off' button and everything else that is pointless if you are NOT on a Windows Phone.....and that's just about everyone these days.
Start10 is an identical reconstruction for 10 of the 7 GUI...which is its point/raison d'etre ...

 

[greenie]

Sorry for the belated reply. My understanding is that when M$ releases a new OS, all sellers' licenses for thew previous system are voided as a condition of getting a license for the new OS. If this is correct, then nobody was licensed to sell Win7 once Win10 was released. And of course M$ won't sell any OS except their current product. When my WinXP rig went belly up I wanted to replace it with a new custom built XP rig, but Win7 was the current OS and it was no longer possible to obtain a clean copy of XP. AS the only way to get XP was to buy a black market copy that might be infected with who knows what, I was forced to upgrade to Win7. As far as I know, the only way to build a new rig with an older OS is to extract the OS from your old rig, and that only works if your present rig's license isn't keyed to the serial number of your present processor, which most usually are. This is what I was told by my friend who is a professional computer techie. When he rebuilt my Win7pro rig, the only way he could do it was by using the same processor, which thankfully is pretty powerful despite its age.

Thank you Mick - just to be clear the question is - if I buy a copy of Win7 now, to be used in the future . As Priller pointed out, I may run into problems with the drivers and after reading the posts here I think I'll go to win10 with the mods. Can't help thinking that win10 will be just fine with M$FS when it comes out - same company

 

[Jafo]

Thank you Mick - just to be clear the question is - if I buy a copy of Win7 now, to be used in the future . As Priller pointed out, I may run into problems with the drivers

Main point is...if you did buy a copy...install it now, not later...and thus get any/all updates to it before they end [or you have to pay for them]. A 'vanilla' Win 7 would be pretty useless in the long term ...more so than ones currently in use...

 

[greenie]

Yes, but - my new system will happen ( hopefully !) when or after M$FS is released and the next set of improvements happen in VR. It will be built for VR and M$FS ( including the other sims too. P3D+X-plane). Could be a 1 years time next Christmas or so, whenever it all happens . Grief how I hate patience !!

 

[hairyspin]

Is that all ?
The interface is "dumbed down" because there are icons in it ?
Do you know you can choose them, rearrange them, and more importantly, choose between "big" and "small" size for each ? (on your screenshot the icons are set to big).
If anything, the start menu actually looks more usable in the Win10 version, actually :/

Shhhhh! And don’t tell anyone, but you can still use the keyboard too ... y’know, hit Start and begin typing the name of the program or file you want and it comes up on the menu. W ... O ... oh look, Word. Duh.

 

[Dangerous Beans]

I woulnt be suprise if FS2020 (or whatever its called) will require W10 so if your building a rig with that in mind forget W7, its time to move on.

 

[zswobbie1]

It is confirmed that Windows 10 is needed for MSFS.
Windows 7 is obviously obsolete, as it is not needed, and a waste of space. It is not optimized at all to run on modern hardware.

Bear in mind, that some Windows 7 drivers will not work with new hardware that's optimized for Windows 10.

 

[Daube]

Daube.... I think you're missing a bit.

Yes, definitely I'm missing something, and that's why I was asking questions.

What's gone is those painful 'tiles'....

These tiles can be configured, chosen, placed, resized. What's the problem ? Why are they more "painful" than the icons you're using in your Win7 start menu ?

the hunt and seek process to ever find access to a control panel....

The hunt to ever find ? I don't understand... You have the "find" field just there: type "control panel", right click on the result, choose "pin to start menu" and voilà, it's there forever...

the 'where T F' is the 'off' button

It's right there on top of the start menu button !?
It's even easier to find than on the Windows 7 start menu !

and everything else that is pointless if you are NOT on a Windows Phone.....

Like... what exactly ? What are these pointless things that are only relevant to Windows phones ?

Start10 is an identical reconstruction for 10 of the 7 GUI...which is its point/raison d'etre ...

I get the point of Start10. I just don't get the reason why people want to keep that Win7 menu. So far, you have not given any valid reason in your list, excepted that you need to search exactly ONCE for the control panel...

 

[Jafo]

Daube... The methodology of GUI design is highly involved and has been a sensible evolution process until Microsoft made everyone conform to their need for compatibility with a touch screen phone system, and they did it at the expense of and in spite of people who used their machines for actual WORK, not posting selfies on instagram, and texting while they drive and kill people.

All you have to do is compare 7 to a default 10 and count the key strokes to get anything done.

It is ONLY the 10 kernel that can be deemed a 'marvel' [or improvement]...it is what tends to make it less resource-hungry than its predecessors [ignoring the dogs...ME, Vista, and 8]. The GUI didn't even get the Windows phone out of the starter's gate. THAT is dead in the water...it's an ex-parrot.
So why the hell did users have to have its GUI thrust down their throats?
Might be fine for those born in this millennium...but anyone who has messed with computers since the 60's has seen enough crap come and go....though my real issue is with the [mostly] unavoidable/forced updates the general user has to suffer thanks to a policy change at Redmond....where everyone [bar the fat cats] becomes the beta tester, like it or not, and if it loses you everything you have ever worked on on the computer...every user file...so be it....and read the EULA....sorry, mate...ain't Microsoft's fault.

The lines of code in a current OS are so complex now MS can't afford to spend the millions on pre-release testing....nah....let the idiot customers do that for them...it's a win-win....

 

[Mick]

Thank you Mick - just to be clear the question is - if I buy a copy of Win7 now, to be used in the future . As Priller pointed out, I may run into problems with the drivers and after reading the posts here I think I'll go to win10 with the mods. Can't help thinking that win10 will be just fine with M$FS when it comes out - same company

Well, Jafo's post above suggests that you might still find a copy of Win7 to buy if you can finds a store that still has some in stock. Finding a store that has a copy and would sell it to you would be the hard part.

But what I was told is that it can't be, because when a seller gets a license from MS to sell the current OS, part of the contract is that they can no longer sell any older ones regardless if they have copies still in stock. If that's correct, then you'd not only have to find a store with Win7 in stock, but one that was willing to violate their license and risk somehow being caught and losing their license for the current version and all future versions. At least that's how it was explained to me by the shop that initially built my Win7 rig. My techie friend who rebuilt it for me (who I didn't know yet when it was built initially) didn't dispute that, and added the part about serial number linkage - which is part of MS's effort to force us to keep buying new confutors and/or Windows versions when we'd rather upgrade or rebuild.

If you could find a copy that was sold as just an OS in a box, meant to be installed on an existing confutor, not linked to an existing processor or motherboard, that would be great! But finding it might be a fruitless quest. If you do find one, I concur that you should install it immediately and get all the updates while they're still available, which they won't be after some time in January.

 

[Jafo]

Well, Jafo's post above suggests that you might still find a copy of Win7 to buy if you can finds a store that still has some in stock. Finding a store that has a copy and would sell it to you would be the hard part.

But what I was told is that it can't be, because when a seller gets a license from MS to sell the current OS, part of the contract is that they can no longer sell any older ones regardless if they have copies still in stock. If that's correct, then you'd not only have to find a store with Win7 in stock, but one that was willing to violate their license and risk somehow being caught and losing their license for the current version and all future versions. At least that's how it was explained to me by the shop that initially built my Win7 rig. My techie friend who rebuilt it for me (who I didn't know yet when it was built initially) didn't dispute that, and added the part about serial number linkage - which is part of MS's effort to force us to keep buying new confutors and/or Windows versions when we'd rather upgrade or rebuild.

If you could find a copy that was sold as just an OS in a box, meant to be installed on an existing confutor, not linked to an existing processor or motherboard, that would be great! But finding it might be a fruitless quest. If you do find one, I concur that you should install it immediately and get all the updates while they're still available, which they won't be after some time in January.

Mick....my comment above [#47] includes a 5 second search on Ebay for Win 7. It's still available in a box, new and unused. I expect your shop may have led you astray.

As for the hardware coding to an OS install....that was an effective [and successful] copy protection ensuring the one key was used on the one computer, but yes, it takes effort to have it used again on a replaced or upgraded machine... but it can be done ...via a call to MS explaining why a new install was needed...done it a couple of times myself...

 

[Bjoern]

Add to that, that you are only allowed x amount of re-installs / re-activations due to hardware upgrades before you need to purchase a new license.

Only when putting in a new mainboard (or CPU?).

I went from team blue (Intel) to team red (AMD) recently and had to reactivate Win 10 because of that...funnily enough, using a Win 7 key because MS somehow never got entirely rid of the "free upgrade" mechanics.

Linux, on the other hand, didn't care about the system swap at all.

I woulnt be suprise if FS2020 (or whatever its called) will require W10 so if your building a rig with that in mind forget W7, its time to move on.

If you're building a current-gen rig, you won't find Windows 7 drivers for your hardware anyway.