• There seems to be an uptick in Political comments in recent months. Those of us who are long time members of the site know that Political and Religious content has been banned for years. Nothing has changed. Please leave all political and religious comments out of the forums.

    If you recently joined the forums you were not presented with this restriction in the terms of service. This was due to a conversion error when we went from vBulletin to Xenforo. We have updated our terms of service to reflect these corrections.

    Please note any post refering to a politician will be considered political even if it is intended to be humor. Our experience is these topics have a way of dividing the forums and causing deep resentment among members. It is a poison to the community. We appreciate compliance with the rules.

    The Staff of SOH

  • Server side Maintenance is done. We still have an update to the forum software to run but that one will have to wait for a better time.

wrong engine data Wright Cyclone R-1820 ?

michaelvader

michaelvader

Members +
Hallo friends,
while working on the Sikorsky S-58 series to convert to piston engine I found some mysterious things about the engine.
A lot of aircraft used this engine from DC-3, B-17 and the Sikorsky H-34.
In a lot of cases (also the original Microsoft Douglas DC-3) the engine data said it was 14 cylinder two row radial engine with a
cylinder deplacement of 130 71 cu inch per cylinder.
When I look into my reference book "Major Piston Aeroengines of World War II by Victor Bingham", the engine is discribed as a
single row 9 cylinder radial engine. With 1823 cu inch and a cylinder displacement of 202,47 cu inch per cylinder.
of course the differencies in HP are understandable as there have been different series, also with single stage or two stage supercharger or as in the B-17 with turbo chargers.
Can some one explain me the differencies of the generarl engine conception. in which way the wrong (I presume 14 cylinder with 130,71 per cylinder displacement is the wrong one) has influence of the aircraft in our flightsim 2004?

Best regards

Michael
 
Hello Michael.

The S58/H34's were powered by a Wright Cyclone 9-cylinder, single row radial engine. DC-3's were mostly powered by either Wright Cyclones or Pratt & Whitney Twin Wasp 14-cylinder twin row radial engines. The C-47's only used the Pratt & Whitney. The Microsoft DC-3 engine specs look to be some flavor of P & W.

Both engine families covered about the same power ranges. Wright got a lot of oomph out of nine cylinders where P&W used two rows of seven cylinders. The Wright was about 54 inches in diameter and the P & W about 48 inches in diameter. Engineers made tradeoffs between design complexity (single row/ twin row), aero drag (diameter, length) and cooling (single row/twin row) among tons of other things.

Thank you for all the great models you have contributed to the hobby.

normb
 
FS computes the power from the cylinder displacement (one cylinder), the number of cylinders, and the rpm. The first two are easily modified, the rpm function is a torque curve chart in the air file. But the simplest way to adjust this is to input the proper parameters and use the engine power scalar to tweak the result if necessary; the scalar is a simple percentage adjustment, 1.0 gives whatever power is computed from your specs, 1.1 would be 10% more, 0.9 would be 10% less. With AFSD you can monitor the plane in flight and get a reading of the actual power being used (along with a ton other data).
 
Good evening friends,
thank you for your replies and explanations.
"AFSD" makes me rembering some thing, but I am not sure. I looked in my gauges and the rest of FS2004 but did n't find any thing. But it seems to me that in some airplanes I could pop up a window which did indicate me the airplane and engine parameters.

Best regards

Michael
 
Michael,

Are you looking for an appropriate engine data set to pull over from another Wright powered model? Maybe jgf could recommend something. SBD or B17 maybe.

normb
 
Michael,

AFSD helps in getting parameters closer to what you would expect within the limits of FS9 by letting you "see" what is happening in your aircraft while you are flying. I haven't used it myself, but I've used several other things from this site in working out things for PW:

Flight Simulator Aircraft Dynamics and Navdata

Take a look around -- there's plenty of interesting stuff in there for all! ;) The AFSD should be under the "Software" selection up at the top when you click on the "Designer" option.

Saludos!

Jorge
Miami, FL
 
AFSD runs in the background and has tabs for engine and prop data, fuel, cg, various flight dynamics, etc. You can alt-tab out of the sim, make cfg changes, go back in, reload the aircraft and immediately see the effects of your changes.
 
normb said:
Michael,

Are you looking for an appropriate engine data set to pull over from another Wright powered model? Maybe jgf could recommend something. SBD or B17 maybe.

normb
Click to expand...

Lol, I appreciate the confidence but am no expert. What little I've learned has been through trial and error (mostly the latter). And I am completely lost working with helicopters, most of my efforts there have resulted in non-flying aircraft.

I've read several places that all FS2004 helicopters are built on turbine models; but I have several third party aircraft that, according to cfg and air file data, have piston engines. Twice I've tried to convert older helicopters to the proper piston engines, each time, according to AFSD, gauges, visuals, and sounds, everything is functioning normally ...and each time the aircraft would lift on its gear but never leave the ground, throttle back and it settles down on the gear again. I even tried running the power and thrust scalars to ridiculous levels, as far as 8 for both (is there any upper limit for this?) and it made no difference. After cursing ...er, tweaking ... these projects a week each, I gave up. Where is Jordan Moore when you need him.

(Changing a fixed wing aircraft from turboprop to piston is tedious but not difficult.)
 
Nice shot!
Round engines...."A real airplane" as most of the older guys I worked with said when they heard that sound. Folks would always kind of slide out towards the hangar doors to see what it was. Rare sound now adays in most places.
normb
 
Good evening friends,

I also tried to convert Willy Vervaeckes Sikorsky HSS1 (H-34) to piston engine. And failed.
Than my french friend Alain directed me to a french sim site. Also hesended me his Sikorsky's.
They have been converted to piston engine by Benoit Dube in 2008. Sadly died some years ago.
I hope he flies now in friendly skies. His converted choppers flies very well. I am in the final phase to
adjust the panels and some details. I hope to release them soon. It is difficult to find the correct engine parameters.
I have the original manuals for the german and american versions and some other official documents.
And every one has other engine parameters. It is to consider that the was not "one" Sikorsky S-58/ HSS 1 / H-34, but a lot of versions.

Best regards

Michael
 
  • Like
Reactions: jgf
Concerning sounds - in france we say "colors and smells can not be discused".
For me a jet sound do not lift me from my chair but the sound of good old big radial
or 12 cylinder V engine YES LOL
"What a beautifull noise"

Best regards

Michael
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top