City Textures rework

[rince33]

Thanks for those files Clive.

Biggin Hill 1940

I won't edit in the painted airfield camouflage and bomb craters so don't even ask.
Both runways are visible under the layer of paint.

More photos available of various airfields on the bob2 forum on this page:
https://a2asimulations.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=69125
On scrolling down on that page I spotted a post by a certain 'Pat Pattle'.

 

[Pat Pattle]

Ah yes, I remember that thread. I downloaded and saved every image.

I won't edit in the painted airfield camouflage and bomb craters so don't even ask.

It's very difficult to get convincing camo on the airfields, it has been tried.
Frosty did a brilliant job of the original Kenley release but in game they do look a bit weird. I'm guessing that they probably did in real life.
It makes you wonder why we bothered, the LW still found them all.

 

[gecko]

Sure, the recon planes fly over, photograph everything, and the experts pour over the photos and find almost everything of value, not to mention they all had prewar knowledge of where these installations where. You can send a bomber formation to navigate to that location and they'll find it. However, it's surprising how well an airfield can blend into the terrain around it, even with no attempts at camouflage. Grass fields can be quite difficult, since the easiest part of an airport to spot is usually the paved runway. If you are not specifically navigating to it, there's a decent chance you will miss it. So I think the camouflage would be moderately effective at concealing the airfield from aircraft happening through the area looking for targets of opportunity. I would think that it would be most effective when viewed from lower angles.

The challenge in CFS3, or any flight sim, is getting it to blend so well with everything around it, it just doesn't work quite as well as in real life.

 

[rince33]

I received quite a shock when I saw Kenley with it's photo-real textures. I really like the look, but unfortunately it doesn't fit with my terrain. This was made to match the photo-real cities used in the Bob update.
I lifted the runway and taxi tracks and enlarged it to fill the image which meant that I had to re scale and reposition the facility texture parameters , which is why Kenley sits next to Hawkinge in my construction pit.
I subdued the very bright areas, added a field texture and reworked the road and hangar area, and this is the result . If this passes the constructive criticism test then I will use this as a standard for all airfield texture reworks .

 

[Shessi]

Glen,
Yes agreed, the original texs are too bright/stark. The second toned down tex is just about right, both runway and grass areas look very good and as a standard airfield tex I think would work well.

The only thing is that the original tex the excess trees/undergrowth and buildings on the outside (which are only 2D), but I think makes the airfield look more realistic. Are you planning to re-add a toned down version of the areas? To save you work and FR's I don't think they need to be replaced with 3D objects.

Cheers

Shessi

 

[Pat Pattle]

Take a look at the ETO install of Kenley, it uses Frosty's original texture.

I really like what you've done with the photo textures btw!

 

[rince33]

The only thing is that the original tex the excess trees/undergrowth and buildings on the outside (which are only 2D), but I think makes the airfield look more realistic. Are you planning to re-add a toned down version of the areas? To save you work and FR's I don't think they need to be replaced with 3D objects.

When I've cleared the Kenley area of city class buildings I will add placements and maybe some trees. Today I was working at my construction pit which is located next to Hawkinge. I'm very keen now to see if I can replicate the Kenley look at Hawkinge. I will definitely use the runway on other airfields.

Take a look at the ETO install of Kenley, it uses Frosty's original texture.

My external hdd crashed a while back with all my flight sim work files history and war doccies, as well as a plethora of il21946 and cf3 stuff which included Eto installs and installation files. I doubt I will ever download these again given the download restrictions on the site. Luckily I had all of my gmax source files and my modded Bob install containing all of my various gimp xcf work files installed on my present ssd. I now regularly back up my files to a working hdd which I leave disconnected power wise when I'm not using it. I must back up my stuff to cloud storage as well at some stage.

 

[Pat Pattle]

For your interest, heres Kenley from the originall BoB install. This is a collapsed version of the multi-layered ETO model.

 

[rince33]

Thanks , I'll have a look now.

 

[gecko]

I think you've done a great job with the grass. The color is a good fit for the rest of the scenery, and the worn areas as a nice touch that makes it look more lived-in. The paved portions look like they come from modern satellite imagery and look too bleached and worn to my eyes. It looks every bit of 80 years old instead of just a few. I'd recommend a darker look, with less wear. I think it would blend better with the rest of the terrain.

 

[rince33]

I think you've done a great job with the grass. The color is a good fit for the rest of the scenery, and the worn areas as a nice touch that makes it look more lived-in. The paved portions look like they come from modern satellite imagery and look too bleached and worn to my eyes. It looks every bit of 80 years old instead of just a few. I'd recommend a darker look, with less wear. I think it would blend better with the rest of the terrain.

Okay, this is good.
I had the same thought about the grass and downloaded various natural grass sections from Googlearth yesterday. So I intend to revisit my recent Hornchurch work.

So should the paved areas be more like Hawkinge and Hornchurch, though not quite so dark? I thought Hawkinge was a bit too dark, but that might just be because I have it so close to Kenley, though if I look at Hornchurch now, the hangar area looks a bit too dark.

I understand the less worn and more even look. Should this apply to the runway as well? I quite like the runway.

 

[gecko]

The runway looks like it's had its top surface stripped away, though I'm not sure what the original surface was. I'm also partial to the camouflage paint at Kenley ever since working on the original add-on with Joost and Clive many moons ago. But I do get that it is hard to implement. One thing the runway definitely needs is some rubber staining. You don't typically get defined skid marks with lighter aircraft such as would be operating from Kenley, as you might at a bomber base, but the center of the runway will tend to get a little darker, particularly near the ends where aircraft are touching down.

I think the Hornchurch pavement is a decent look that fits the rest of the world well. I agree the darker pads might be a little too dark. All of that said, you are the artist here.

 

[greycap.raf]

I'll have to agree with everything Dan said in #690. While photorealistic graphics are, well, realistic it doesn't mean they're the best option as the rest of the scenery doesn't come from the same source. It all has to work as a whole so that nothing stands out and at the moment the paved areas do that way too much, for example concrete areas should more or less match the concrete roads in the scenery for a uniform look. Hawkinge may be bland in comparison, but it looks a lot more like it belongs in there - save for a perhaps too bright grass, which is better with this new Kenley - instead of being glued on.

 

[rince33]

This is great input. It's sometimes good to see things from another's viewpoint. I like using photoreal images where I am able but it must complement the overall look which is why I decided not to use the original photoreal grass. Guys seem to like Kenleys grass which was meant to be a temporary addition until I could produce something that I thought would be better, so it's a keeper.

I'm currently working on Hawkinge, separating all the various tracks and road into separate layers which can be altered on viewing in the sim and balanced with each other and the general terrain. I will do the same with other airfields also standardizing the appearance.

I just wanted to get an idea on which way to proceed so that I don't waste time unnecessarily on what is a considerable amount of work.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Roger Hodgson , originally a member of the group Supertramp. In this vid, a one man band accompanied by a brilliant saxophonist. He is such a shining light on that stage. A lovely song with such meaningful lyrics.

 

[rince33]

I reworked Hawkinge surfaces yesterday, and a pic of Hornchurch paving.

 

[Shessi]

Nice work Glen,
Hawkinge grass tex looks good, fits well, but personally I think the concrete has lost definition and it's too pinky (many tex saves degradation?). Your Kenley represents a a very well used/busy summer time airfield (which it was), where a lot of rubber, oil, grease and petrol has been spilt and stained. And yes I see what G says about top surface look. The other issue is you can't have one tex that represents all times of day and lighting conditions! lol

Cheers

Shessi

p.s Good choice Supertramp, BIA is a great album, shame it all got acrimonious.

 

[rince33]

There is a slight pinkness which a bit of de-saturation of the paved sections will rectify. I don't want the concrete sections looking too defined which will give it a too perfect hand drawn look. I will look at maybe toning down the dividing lines so that they are less obvious.

I have managed to find some period pics of Kenley and there is more detail to be added to the hangar paved surfaces.

Breakfast in America was one of the few albums that I purchased at the time and I still have it, though no record player. I remember enjoying every track.

 

[Pat Pattle]

That looks great Glen.

The airfields look empty these days. Back when put together we were all still worrying about fps!

 

[rince33]

I'm still worrying about fps.

 

[rince33]

What were the famous last words of an amateur texture editor before he shot himself?
"constructive criticism is welcome"