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The Staff of SOH
Negative Comments and repercussions
- Thread starter Lionheart
- Start date
- Status
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gajit
Guest
Hi Harleyman - surely that would just do more damage as anyone reading would not know what the "concerns" were and therefore be even more wary of the product and could not make their own mind up.
As for refund - i have only had one developer ever offer a refund and that was just to by my silence. It worked as if they dont have my money i consider it as freeware and therefore I have no real right to complain after that.
krazycolin
Banned
I have a problem with the last part of your statement. If you buy something from me and you don't like it. I then give you a refund. You aren't supposed to use it anymore. You are supposed to delete it off of your system. Your considering it freeware is, I'm sorry to say, tantamount to theft. And that is how I would view it.
I'm having a real problem with lots of things that you and several others say and seem to believe. You think that you have the right to diss and critique but no one is allowed to do the same to you.
I would really like to see you do what we do. Really. If you are half as good, I would take the things you say with far less aggravation. You have NO idea what has to happen for a plane to be made and put into FSX. if you did, you would be far more polite about what you say and how you say it.
I've had my fill of this thread. It was a good shot Lionheart, but as someone said... play with pigs and you are going to get dirty. I'm tired of being dirty.
If anyone on this or any other site disses my work in such a way that is either non-constructive or impolite, they will not be responded to. Even if they're right.
nuff said.
out.
kc.
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gajit
Guest
Well KC - i can assure you that if I have complained about a product enough to get a refund there is no way I want it on my system and ever see the thing move again on my screen. I agree my freeware comparison was unwise but i wanted to make the point that i disagree with gratutious complaining about freeware.
As to understanding the time, effort and work that goes into products - yes i have some idea (i have also beta tested for 2 very well known producers) but still can only imagine - same as if i buy a book, cd, or any other product.
If you disagree with me - i think you might even find me disagreable reading between your lines - then that is your perogative (where is the spell check when you need it?)
BTW - Pigs are exceptionally clean and intelligent animals and can even be (Sim Out) house trained
Henry
Retired SOH Administrator
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gajit
Guest
Yep - im gonna drop out too from this debate as it will become repetitive and I there looks like there will be loads of great products out soon like the Bird Dog and the Carenado twin to get very excited and posisitive about.
Thank you SOH staff for allowing my view to be expressed.
:ernae:
Thank you SOH staff for allowing my view to be expressed.
:ernae:
Henry
Retired SOH Administrator
good job you are wearing shades
H
Good thing it didn't get in my Beer...
I would have had to cry
I have to agree. If the person agrees to give you a refund, you are expected to delete it. If you go on flying it, man... lol.. c'mon.. After all that?
If you return a toy to Walmart for a refund, you dont get to take it back home with you and continue to play with it, lolol... Goodness.. (Especially after trashing the guy in front of everyone who just spent a ton of his life making it).
Ears that hear but are deaf, eyes that see but are blind... Oh well.
On another note, we're having great weather here in Phoenix. Mild cloud cover to take the heat away.
:d
Bill
Henry
Retired SOH Administrator
come down to the sunny south
hot an humid
and after watering the plants outside
mosquito bitten
darn mosquitos oh wait!
LOL
H
Major_Spittle
Charter Member
I bought a XTX 260 GTX black edition video card the other day for $170. They have factory overclocked the memory too high and the thing crashes constantly in certain games even if I leave the side of my case open to give it plenty of cool air. Now I have had to download software to turn down the memory on the thing in order to get it to run. I don't like having to " tweak vid cards " with 3rd party software which is the reason I got this card that was supposedly tested and OC'd by them to a stable speed in BIOS. I could have got any number of 260 GTX cards for $20 less that are clocked to spec and then OC'd them my self with the same software. Now I am stuck with something I don't want that I paid too much for. My only recourse is to send it back to the company and have them send me another one that will most likely have the same problem but to do so means being without a video card for 4 to 8 weeks. The XTX 260 GTX black edition is a complete waste of money. Save yourself a big headache and stay away from that video card.
^^^^ This is my opinion on that video card. If it was a plane I would probably be " In Trouble " for stating my opinion openly and honestly here. Yet somehow people can comment about other things all day. I have not seen people personally attacking developers here, but I have seen some developers that can't handle someone buying their work and giving anything other than warm fuzzy comments on it. It is not the consumers job to help a developer FIX something that was sold to them. Sometime the consumer is just giving an opinion.
i.e. The FD was bad and it would sink into the carrier when I landed. There are much better plans to spend $30 on.
It may hurt someone's feelers, but it is not a personal attack. It is an opinion. And yes I agree with Bill's points 100%, but feel the problem (if there really is one) goes both ways.
ryanbatc
Charter Member
"I bought an XTX 260 GTX Black Edition video card the other day. Unfortunately, the factory clock is set too high and, when put into my system, it crashes constantly. It could be the fact that I have insufficient cooling, but right now this card is no use to me whatsoever and I wish I had got a cheaper card with a lower overclock. I really can't recommend this card, although it might work for someone whose case has more fans than metal!"
"I'm having a problem with the Hawker-Boulton SeaDonkey. Every time I try and land on a carrier, the wheels disappear through the flight deck. I strongly suspect it's a problem with the FDE. Does anyone else experience the same thing, before I contact the developer with my findings?"
I do agree entirely, as I said before, that the problem goes both ways. It's likely that the developer's test was insufficient in that case, but if there's one thing I've learned from writing reviews, it's that no product ever is entirely perfect, or entirely terrible. It's degrees of grey.
"I'm having a problem with the Hawker-Boulton SeaDonkey. Every time I try and land on a carrier, the wheels disappear through the flight deck. I strongly suspect it's a problem with the FDE. Does anyone else experience the same thing, before I contact the developer with my findings?"
I do agree entirely, as I said before, that the problem goes both ways. It's likely that the developer's test was insufficient in that case, but if there's one thing I've learned from writing reviews, it's that no product ever is entirely perfect, or entirely terrible. It's degrees of grey.
This is a good hypothetical example so lets break it down. 
You did good up until this point this is Fact (hypothetical but Fact). The only way you could have done better was to provide the reader your system specs. Then it all becomes an experience that other users/members could learn from. Like users would know right off the bat that they could be facing problems if they purchased the product configured like this.
Here is where you are going down hill. First off if it were a complete waste of money you would be purchasing a whole card and not getting a refund for the one you already bought. That would constitute a complete lose of money. In this scenario hypothetical as it is you are down loading software to turn down the memory at no cost to you. Now lets say that you are Computer Savvy I believe that to be the case. You knew purchasing the product that there is a certain amount of unknown so you purchased the card on a gamble and it did not work out. Those things happen but should we tell the other users it is a complete waste of money when it very well may work for them or be to their liking?
Not a bad statement but not fully qualified if you will. The card may well work for another user or it may be to their liking and this opinion stated this way holds no value to the reader.
Now lets restructure the statement. "If you have a system like mine {configuration stated above} save yourself a big headache and stay away from that card."
Notice how just a simple change in wording changed the aggressiveness. The situation and the product just don't warrant even mildly aggressive language.
Forgive me but i laughed when I saw this but it taught me something that i had not thought of before. I never return anything PERIOD. If I purchase something I don't like or didn't need I just put it away and forget about it. If I purchased a poor quality addon for FS I would just never purchase from them again but I would not taint someone else's opinion with mine. Why it is a $30 to $50 purchase and I have wasted/lost/misspent a whole lot more than that in my life time. I am not going to sweat a $30 addon. However that is just me.
You are right but throw in some emoticons to lighten the mode. What may not be a personal attack could be misconceived as one.
Put yourself in the developers place. You are the head leader of Major_Spittle's Premier Flight Simulations Aircraft Design (MS-PFSAD go out and register it on the web today). You just finished a project that took 1.5 years to create. Thousands of dollars in travel to research the product. 10000 man hours mostly late nights for you and your crew to bring the product to the public. Countless hours of your Wife/Husband/Girlfriend/Boyfriend B*tching at you that you spent too much time on the computer working on that stupid Plane.
And here we are you finally finish the Product Celebration time 
And
on the day of release your product is purchased by a member of a website who immediately goes out and publishes a very negative review of the plane. They call the Flight Dynamics Crap and list many things wrong with it. They refer to the look or paint of the plane as "Cartoonish". Without ever having consulted you the developer about the product to ask you why it was like that.
I would not fault you for Blowing a gasket but for the appearances of your company you better keep it together. That is easier said than done I fear.
See the problem is at the point you released the product everyones nerves are fried and guess what someone may have made a mistake on packaging the executable. That may have been the reason why the flight dynamics were off but the person who did the review never consulted you to find out what the problem was. If they had contacted you the developer and said hey this is way off something is wrong the mistake could have been found and the problem corrected.
Now of course we are still speaking hypothetically here but i bet this experience of a developer is not far off the mark.
BTW if you open up Major_Spittle's Premier Flight Simulations Aircraft Design I expect $.05 for every addon you sell for coming up with the name. :ernae:
For those of you how spent a lot of time reading this my apologies.
Dave
You did good up until this point this is Fact (hypothetical but Fact). The only way you could have done better was to provide the reader your system specs. Then it all becomes an experience that other users/members could learn from. Like users would know right off the bat that they could be facing problems if they purchased the product configured like this.
Here is where you are going down hill. First off if it were a complete waste of money you would be purchasing a whole card and not getting a refund for the one you already bought. That would constitute a complete lose of money. In this scenario hypothetical as it is you are down loading software to turn down the memory at no cost to you. Now lets say that you are Computer Savvy I believe that to be the case. You knew purchasing the product that there is a certain amount of unknown so you purchased the card on a gamble and it did not work out. Those things happen but should we tell the other users it is a complete waste of money when it very well may work for them or be to their liking?
Not a bad statement but not fully qualified if you will. The card may well work for another user or it may be to their liking and this opinion stated this way holds no value to the reader.
Now lets restructure the statement. "If you have a system like mine {configuration stated above} save yourself a big headache and stay away from that card."
Notice how just a simple change in wording changed the aggressiveness. The situation and the product just don't warrant even mildly aggressive language.
Forgive me but i laughed
when I saw this but it taught me something that i had not thought of before. I never return anything PERIOD. If I purchase something I don't like or didn't need I just put it away and forget about it. If I purchased a poor quality addon for FS I would just never purchase from them again but I would not taint someone else's opinion with mine. Why it is a $30 to $50 purchase and I have wasted/lost/misspent a whole lot more than that in my life time. I am not going to sweat a $30 addon. However that is just me. You are right but throw in some
emoticons to lighten the mode. What may not be a personal attack could be misconceived as one. Put yourself in the developers place. You are the head leader of Major_Spittle's Premier Flight Simulations Aircraft Design (MS-PFSAD go out and register it on the web today
). You just finished a project that took 1.5 years to create. Thousands of dollars in travel to research the product. 10000 man hours mostly late nights for you and your crew to bring the product to the public. Countless hours of your Wife/Husband/Girlfriend/Boyfriend B*tching at you that you spent too much time on the computer working on that stupid Plane. And here we are you finally finish the Product
Celebration time And
on the day of release your product is purchased by a member of a website who immediately goes out and publishes a very negative review of the plane. They call the Flight Dynamics Crap and list many things wrong with it. They refer to the look or paint of the plane as "Cartoonish". Without ever having consulted you the developer about the product to ask you why it was like that.I would not fault you for Blowing a gasket but for the appearances of your company you better keep it together. That is easier said than done I fear.
See the problem is at the point you released the product everyones nerves are fried and guess what someone may have made a mistake on packaging the executable. That may have been the reason why the flight dynamics were off but the person who did the review never consulted you to find out what the problem was. If they had contacted you the developer and said hey this is way off something is wrong the mistake could have been found and the problem corrected.
Now of course we are still speaking hypothetically here but i bet this experience of a developer is not far off the mark.
BTW if you open up Major_Spittle's Premier Flight Simulations Aircraft Design I expect $.05 for every addon you sell for coming up with the name. :ernae:
For those of you how spent a lot of time reading this my apologies.
Dave
Panther_99FS
Retired SOH Administrator
What if all he designers just up and quit - then what :ques:
H
harleyman
Guest
FSX would get BORING after a while..
I like new stuff......:ernae:
I like new stuff......:ernae:
Major_Spittle
Charter Member
When I buy a shovel, it is not with the intent to help the designer redesign the shovel. Thus, if I buy a shovel and the handle breaks I may be of the opinion that that shovel was a piece of crap. When my neighbor asks me " Hey Spittle, I am looking for a shovel do you have any advice? " my reply might simply be " Don't buy the Digger 3000 at Ace hardware because the damn thing is built like crap. "
I realise we have developers here and would never insult them on purpose or personally attack them. With this though I will not lie for them or change my opinion. I also will not spend $30 to be a beta tester. If I buy something I like, I will have a good opinion. If I buy something I don't like, I may have a bad opinion. If it is a bad opinion, a certain $30 Abacus purchase when I was new to FSX jumps to mind, I will tell people beware of Abacus because their stuff is over priced and may not be what's advertised. This is MY Experience and MY Opinion. I will not contact the developer, I will not write a five page post on my experience, but I will give MY honest opinion like it or not. Not to be mean, and not as a personal attack.
Trust me, people here will learn who to ignore because they are overly cheap, whiny, or know nothing about which they opine. :ernae: Opinions are like, ummmmm, beer; everbody have one. Just be mature and don't **** where you eat.
I realise we have developers here and would never insult them on purpose or personally attack them. With this though I will not lie for them or change my opinion. I also will not spend $30 to be a beta tester. If I buy something I like, I will have a good opinion. If I buy something I don't like, I may have a bad opinion. If it is a bad opinion, a certain $30 Abacus purchase when I was new to FSX jumps to mind, I will tell people beware of Abacus because their stuff is over priced and may not be what's advertised. This is MY Experience and MY Opinion. I will not contact the developer, I will not write a five page post on my experience, but I will give MY honest opinion like it or not. Not to be mean, and not as a personal attack.
Trust me, people here will learn who to ignore because they are overly cheap, whiny, or know nothing about which they opine. :ernae: Opinions are like, ummmmm, beer; everbody have one. Just be mature and don't **** where you eat.
This is getting way off topic and hypothetical. If guy X says this, product Y loses sales, developer Z will be pissed...etc.
Again, developers' business objective is none of users' concern. Never have been. Never will be. SOH is a public community shared between users and developers. Both sides should have total freedom of speech as long as they are polite and reasonable.
I am all for enforcing politeness and keeping the atmosphere mature. But "Don't diss me because I worked hard (or because you don't know Jack Schitt)" has nothing to do with politeness and maturity. In fact, and dare I say it, it show complete immaturity on developers' side of the argument.
Bottom line: the inventor of common sense jab will be the next Bill Gates!!!
Again, developers' business objective is none of users' concern. Never have been. Never will be. SOH is a public community shared between users and developers. Both sides should have total freedom of speech as long as they are polite and reasonable.
I am all for enforcing politeness and keeping the atmosphere mature. But "Don't diss me because I worked hard (or because you don't know Jack Schitt)" has nothing to do with politeness and maturity. In fact, and dare I say it, it show complete immaturity on developers' side of the argument.
Bottom line: the inventor of common sense jab will be the next Bill Gates!!!
"MAY" not be what advertised? You just scored enough "nice points" for the rest of year!
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