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A Lockheed "Rounder"

VB-125's Don Mason (left) and crew. Co-pilot M.A. Rigdon (next to Mason) and
gunner J.A. Holt wear what appears to be U.S. Army fleece lined jackets and
caps. The heavier gear was probably common in the Atlantic and Aleutians
theaters. Galoshes mandatory in the Aleutians.

View attachment 67899
 
common headwear in Europe for the larger aircrafts pilot...

View attachment 67908
the 'Summer Crusher cap' so called as it could be crushed down on the head if i recall

navigator/co-pilot commonly wore the Garrison cap... plenty here to choose from: http://www.alliedflightgear.com/USAAF caps.html ... if only there was a way to cycle headwear with a key command.... i think thats do-able? conditional animation or some such witchcraft/magic..... :isadizzy:
 
My own observations over the years have determined for me AAF heavy bomber pilots were more partial toward the dress cap, or "50-mission crush" cap, so called because it had been pushed together on the sides and shoved in a handy recess in the cockpit during flight, or sometimes worn on the head during flight. It was common practice for AAF "heavy" pilots to remove the wire grommet that went around the inside of the cap, stiffening it - the excuse was so that it could be worn on duty while placing headphones over it, the real reason was because it looked "cool." The second choice was the "overseas" cap, the "fore and aft" cap, because it could be easily folded into a flight suit pocket or left on the head, headphones placed over it. This was because many ground officers at AAF airfields they might drop into would give them hell for not having headgear once they were on the ground and outside the airplane; hence they carried this cap for ease of carry and its ability to be donned quickly. This tradition carries on in the USAF today. Other than that I don't think any other kind of headgear was popular for the bomber pilots than the flying helmet, leather or cloth (later in the war). It had the advantage of helping to keep the head warm, but was not as stylish as the other two caps already mentioned. Fighter pilots wore the leather or cloth flying helmet. I've only seen a couple of photos of pilots in BT-13s wearing 50-mission hats, I don't think a student would have the nerve to do this unless they were airborne and away from the airfield! Some guys (frequently transport pilots) also flew with nothing at all on their heads, but I don't think this would be advisable in a combat area. I'm a long-time student of the AAF and this is what I've noted in various photos of the service over time.

Navy aircrew had an assortment of headgear to wear, but many of them, officer & enlisted, used the ball cap as most of their flying was in temperate or tropical areas and this was better suited to shielding the head from the sun and aiding visibility as well. The other thing I've seen them wear in photos was the flying helmet. I've also seen photos of PBY gunners wearing their "dixie cups" while on the guns - sometimes the headgear was dyed dark blue.
 
Matt, the Navy version of that hat is usually more for dress uniform occasions than everyday use.
 
View attachment 67928

airmen of a B-17 belonging to the Mighty 8th, commonest head-dress visible, from your 'crush cap' to the standard cap :kilroy: this is how i'd imagine a Harpoon crew would look for their 'crew photo'
 
well there's the engine panel lines on... and the starboard nacelle shaded... time to get the rivet lines on :icon_lol:
 
Can I chime in here regarding flight uniforms?

Aircrew uniforms in WW II were dependent upon nation, branch of service and theater of operations. The British had their own gear and USAAF crews in Europe often used British gear, especially when it came to high altitude operations. The British had flight gear that was better suited for the cold air over Europe, at least until the electrically heated suites became available. In the Pacific, operations were generally carried out at lower altitudes and it was hot and humid. Most crews in the Pacific, both USAAF and USN/USMC, wore baseball caps and cotton uniforms. Even B-29 crews operating at higher altitudes over Japan generally wore baseball caps as the B-29 was pressurized and heated. In Europe the USAAF was the predominant branch of service and it was more common for enlisted crewmen to wear baseball caps, fleece lined leather caps or fleece lined leather fighter pilot helmets and commissioned officers would wear the "crusher" cap.
 
Thank you for that input.

The whole point of the questions was, what hats do I need to put on the pilot and co-pilot. If you all can help me with that, I will try to do it. The result will be the only option regardless of theatre or season.

Right now I have this (see attached) thanks to Jan Visser. :applause:
 
I like them Milton, especially the Ray-Ban pilot glasses. I guess after the war pilots from most nations wore similar head wear. Perhaps the one with the cap could be replaced by a triangular thingy (don't know what you call it, but I can tell you here in public how we used to cal them :icon_lol:)

View attachment 67954

When I was in the Air Force (30+ years ago) the transport pilots from 334 sqn still had all kinds of head gear and nobody bothered.

Matt great work ! I'm really amazed to see the progress you make a just a few days !

Cheers,
Huub
 
I am not aware of the Navy pilots ever wearing their visored officers hats in an airplane they were crew on. This was primaraly a Naval patrol aircraft. Going with the baseball caps or the folders and one would be pretty close, and the Mae Wests....

Great project! BTW spot welding was used on a lot of cowlings as opposed to rivets, which is what my mom did for B-24's and B-17's during WWII.

T
 
IF YOU WANT TO GET AHEAD GET A HAT

Milton,

What you have now looks just fiiiiine! Really impressed with the speed that you crank these a/c out and to such a high standard. The Harpoon certainly continues your run of outstanding American light bombers and patrol a/c. I love the power and sheer in your face agressiveness of the Beech Grizzly.

Really satisfying to do bumps and circuits in as well.

Thanks a bunch for your committment to our hobby.

Mal
 
fliger747 said:
I am not aware of the Navy pilots ever wearing their visored officers hats in an airplane they were crew on. This was primaraly a Naval patrol aircraft. Going with the baseball caps or the folders and one would be pretty close, and the Mae Wests....

Great project! BTW spot welding was used on a lot of cowlings as opposed to rivets, which is what my mom did for B-24's and B-17's during WWII.

T
Click to expand...

I'm with Fliger on this. The "crush" hats are called combination hats in the Navy and I've never seen a pic of anyone on a Navy flight crew wearing them. In my 20 years of Naval service, those hats were mainly worn with dress uniforms, blues, whites and dress khaki. That was mainly a Army Air Force thing.

I have seen them worn with working uniforms shipboard, but that's a surface Navy thing.
 
fliger747 said:
I am not aware of the Navy pilots ever wearing their visored officers hats in an airplane they were crew on. This was primaraly a Naval patrol aircraft. Going with the baseball caps or the folders and one would be pretty close, and the Mae Wests....

Great project! BTW spot welding was used on a lot of cowlings as opposed to rivets, which is what my mom did for B-24's and B-17's during WWII.

T
Click to expand...

All the older aircraft pictures that I have good clarity on, the cowling attachpoints (rivets/welds) look like this.

Is this rivet or weld?
 
Willy said:
I'm with Fliger on this. The "crush" hats are called combination hats in the Navy and I've never seen a pic of anyone on a Navy flight crew wearing them. In my 20 years of Naval service, those hats were mainly worn with dress uniforms, blues, whites and dress khaki. That was mainly a Army Air Force thing.

I have seen them worn with working uniforms shipboard, but that's a surface Navy thing.
Click to expand...

Well, part of my challenge is to provide something workable for all users/services of the aircraft, therefore, my request for assistance. :) Yank those hats off boys! LOL
 
vonernsk said:
Milton,

What you have now looks just fiiiiine! Really impressed with the speed that you crank these a/c out and to such a high standard. The Harpoon certainly continues your run of outstanding American light bombers and patrol a/c. I love the power and sheer in your face agressiveness of the Beech Grizzly.

Really satisfying to do bumps and circuits in as well.

Thanks a bunch for your committment to our hobby.

Mal
Click to expand...


Thank you Mal. It does help to be retired and able to commit 4-14 hours per day. :)

Edit: Always wanted to do a heavy bomber but they seem to all be well covered now. I had started working on a B-29 but Gnoopey beat me to that . LOL Only 90 miles from MAAF so I had hoped for some up close and personal reference pics from there.

I did the Grizzly at the recommendation of Willy long ago. Not sure he ever flies it though. ;-)
 
Justa Shot Inna Dark....

Milton Shupe said:
...All the older aircraft pictures that I have good clarity on, the cowling attachpoints (rivets/welds) look like this... Is this rivet or weld?...
Click to expand...

As a fabricator, I'm gonna make some guesses here, Mr S...

The B&W shot APPEARS to be rivets, possibly 3/16" Head diameter....

The color photo looks like Dzus fasteners, either Button-head or Counter-sunk.... and they're HUGE, so 1/2" head diameter, and probably "captured" style to prevent loss....

Spot welds are typically 1/4" in diameter and pretty much flat....

SC
:kilroy:
 
sc7500 said:
As a fabricator, I'm gonna make some guesses here, Mr S...

The B&W shot APPEARS to be rivets, possibly 3/16" Head diameter....

The color photo looks like Dzus fasteners, either Button-head or Counter-sunk.... and they're HUGE, so 1/2" head diameter, and probably "captured" style to prevent loss....

Spot welds are typically 1/4" in diameter and pretty much flat....

SC
:kilroy:
Click to expand...

Ah, great input SC. Thanks :)
 
fliger747 said:
I am not aware of the Navy pilots ever wearing their visored officers hats in an airplane they were crew on. This was primaraly a Naval patrol aircraft. Going with the baseball caps or the folders and one would be pretty close, and the Mae Wests....
Click to expand...

Hey Tom and Willy, I think there is a small difference between the US Navy and the ROYAL Navy, I think it took until well after the Harpoon before people at this side of the ocean were wearing caps. So perhaps is bare headed the best solution..... :icon_lol: :icon_lol: :icon_lol:

Cheers,
huub
 
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