Aeroplane Heaven P-51D released

[jmig]

Ok, that "no weapons of any kind" is utterly stupid and of course will not buy a Lancaster without turrets. I will be that stupid too. Only German and Austria have that law about nazi symbols. And I bet my life that vast majority of german and austrian simmers will not agree and will gladly have real liveries. That representation of swastikas in P-51 are just ridiculous. What did those pilots shot down??? Armchairs? And I own FSX planes from Flight Replicas Me' and Fw´s (Mathias), he's German, and they offered the option to change tail planes with or without swastikas. And some others, remember a Fieseler Storch. So at that time not long ago at all, they found a way to bypass that stupidity, and offer the real thing. I´m sure some artists, and I could name some here, will do real liveries free of charge for Aeroplane Heaven (good business). Just like someone did for the Heinkel He-111. Bought the plane got rid of their useless (AH) liveries

Anyway, we have the option to accept or not bad or good decisions, don´t want to be banned here so I will refrain to really state what I think about this one. For sure I'm of no importance for AH sale rates. So, when I find the same liveries correctly done maybe I will buy. If not, will spend my money in some other properly done product. Regards.

Beaufighter,

Welcome to the world of being a curmudgeon. While most of the world thinks of us as out of touch old men who complain a lot, we are, in reality, into historical preservation and accuracy. We simply want to preserve the past as we remember and revere it.

Unfortunately, every year we remember less and less of the past we are trying to preserve. Thus, the rant and raving over things being “unlike they use to be”, and “they are always changing things.”

Also, having a substantial amount of history under our belts and knowing how thing used to happen; “stupid laws” will provoke loud and vociferous diatribes where we attempt to educate the younger population of the purity of our historical times and the outright “idiocy” of things today. The laws against weapons on the models and Nazi symbols being “verboten” are examples of the above.

Our self-righteousness and need to live in the past are real. You young guys, need not worry. Soon we will pass, and you will never hear from us again. Then is will soon be your turn.

 

[UnknownGuest12]

Hi John
Had to find the meaning of "curmudgeon", new word for me. And yes I'm a little ill-tempered when someone try to change/alter/forget history and the so called "political right". Law or no law fail to understand why AH and other developers will avoid nazi symbols and then comes an artist, and I thank to all of them, and do a historically correct rendition of a historical plane or weapon. Have a room with hundreds of plane kits some of them german with nazi insignia. Is it wrong or history? not to mention tanks and guns. Should I throw away the 88 gun? there's an Afrika Korps logo on it. Nazi. And what about Soviet T-34? After all Stalin killed millions of his own people, I don´t like him, should I trash every russian model I own? Where is this going to stop?
So dvs company are not allowed to do things right based on a very stupid law. Then comes an individual and do it good. Sued, arrested? fined? Don´t think so. Wonder if it is the law or someone's will, not to picture what they find wrong . Just Flight page about the P-51 they say:
"16 authentic liveries". Is this true? Authentic?
Thank you for your kind words, regards

 

[jankees]

mmm, I tried my first flight, but no luck..
On the runway, the throttle is stuck at 55 inch manifold pressure, and if I change it, it goes back to 55 immediately.
I checked with the Asobo P-51, no problem there, so it seems to be the AH P-51...I just crash when I try to take off.
When I slew into the air, the throttle responds normally, really strange.
But when I fly it, I come to the next problem...
to be honest, I really really don't like the sound, at all.
I have been close to quite a few Mustangs (and other running Merlins), but I've never heard one that sounded anything like this. Outside it's bad, inside even worse.
I'm sorry Baz, I really want to like it, but I don't, so far.
I've hangered it till the next update.

 

[dvj]

mmm, I tried my first flight, but no luck..On the runway, the throttle is stuck at 55 inch manifold pressure, and if I change it, it goes back to 55 immediately.I checked with the Asobo P-51, no problem there, so it seems to be the AH P-51...I just crash when I try to take off.When I slew into the air, the throttle responds normally, really strange. But when I fly it, I come to the next problem...to be honest, I really really don't like the sound, at all. I have been close to quite a few Mustangs (and other running Merlins), but I've never heard one that sounded anything like this. Outside it's bad, inside even worse.I'm sorry Baz, I really want to like it, but I don't, so far.I've hangered it till the next update.

Thanks, I needed that. Just when I was about to buy it...... "accurate" audio is fundamental to any aircraft simulation.

 

[Twice43]

Who would be a Sound Engineer?
Quite fascinating reading initial impressions across a range of Forums.
Sim-Outhouse is generally supportive of new aircraft.
The P-51D is getting criticized on another forum, (MSFS Forum), for the sounds.
It sometimes seems that the cadence of a discussion takes its lead from the early adopters & what mood they are in that day.
T43

 

[Mathias]

Fw´s (Mathias), he's German, and they offered the option to change tail planes with or without swastikas.

To be fair, we do not offer Swastikas for our planes since we're bound by the same laws and customs as Bazz. By conincidence those historical markings so far have always been made available on third party sites by someone else on release day or soon after. I'd suppose the same is true for Aeroplane Heaven products.
So bottom line is, historical German markings are usually done by repainters these days, not by commercial vendors.

 

[shotgunshack]

Had a frustrating afternoon with ailerons against the stops and still rolling. So did what I have found has worked in the past and deleted the first P-51 then reloaded from the same exe and all was good. Managed several circuits at Duxford using as little throttle as possible but coming in quite hot as it says in the book. Absolutely love it, however I do think there is a problem with the sound specifically the start up as it seems two sounds have been knitted together from very different origins resulting in a tin of nails effect just after start up. Apart from that, wonderful.

 

[ftl818]

mmm, I tried my first flight, but no luck..
On the runway, the throttle is stuck at 55 inch manifold pressure, and if I change it, it goes back to 55 immediately.
I checked with the Asobo P-51, no problem there, so it seems to be the AH P-51...I just crash when I try to take off.
When I slew into the air, the throttle responds normally, really strange.
But when I fly it, I come to the next problem...
to be honest, I really really don't like the sound, at all.
I have been close to quite a few Mustangs (and other running Merlins), but I've never heard one that sounded anything like this. Outside it's bad, inside even worse.
I'm sorry Baz, I really want to like it, but I don't, so far.
I've hangered it till the next update.

I just checked the manifold pressure with full throttle (not that you need it though). For me it is about 60 inches. With WEP the manifold pressure goes to 70 but immediately drops back to 60 again. So the WEP is not maintained. Throttle 1 is mapped to my Saitek X55. I fully agree with Jankees, the engine sound does the Packard 1650 Merlin no justice. In fact when not seeing the aircraft directly you could not identify the engine as being a Packard or RR Merlin. Does the tailwheel castor freely? The tailwheel lock works but for me the animation of the tailwheel does not.

 

[keithb77]

Tempted by this, but the Twin Otter is coming...sounds are concerning, but remember you would actually fly with leather helmet and radio headphones so wouldn't get the full Merlin effect...
Alternatively maybe we could swap in the Msfs Mustang sound?

 

[ColoKent]

Okay...so I have pretty much confirmed that there is a conflict between the P-51 and the ORBX KVNY scenery that causes the freeze. I pulled the scenery out of the Community folder, and had no more crashes. BTW-- apparently whatever incompatibility there is, is not across the board, ORBX-wise, as KBUR works fine.

Nit picks...

1. Sound is "a-hem" not what we would expect on this bird
2. Prop blades do not go flat at shutdown...there is ALWAYS pitch in them. This does not seem to align with real life
3. PLEASE give us a 1950s/60's military pilot option with a bone done...this will facilitate a) Korean War and ANG repaints, b) Private owners who wear helmets, c.) Central American and other 1950s-60s users of the Mustang and it's Cavalier variant

Still hungering after the DC-3 though!

Kent

 

[collensr]

Okay...so I have pretty much confirmed that there is a conflict between the P-51 and the ORBX KVNY scenery that causes the freeze. I pulled the scenery out of the Community folder, and had no more crashes. BTW-- apparently whatever incompatibility there is, is not across the board, ORBX-wise, as KBUR works fine.

Nit picks...

1. Sound is "a-hem" not what we would expect on this bird
2. Prop blades do not go flat at shutdown...there is ALWAYS pitch in them. This does not seem to align with real life
3. PLEASE give us a 1950s/60's military pilot option with a bone done...this will facilitate a) Korean War and ANG repaints, b) Private owners who wear helmets, c.) Central American and other 1950s-60s users of the Mustang and it's Cavalier variant

Still hungering after the DC-3 though!

Kent

100% agree with the HGU-55 helmet request b) please. I have repeated this plea for all Warbirds released so far in MSFS. In the non-combat, modern world of MSFS it makes perfect sense to me that the first priority should be to accurately replicate the restored warbird versions that we see today at Duxford, Old Warden, Chino, Reno etc al.

 

[Fnerg]

I'm an awarded live sound engineer, I can handle pretty complex live consoles, I even create my own music in Cubase 11 so I'm familiar with the tools to produce quality sound for the ears. I will agree with the criticisms of this model's sound, it's definitely not the sound I was expecting for a ($50!) P-51D simulation. Can it be fixed? Or, maybe it can't. I want to be blown away by the sound of a Mustang too but, this product doesn't do that. As a trouble shooter by nature, I evaluate the reason why it sounds off to me, I can hear it, and I have a theory why it's not correct. I think it's to do with the process required to achieve the sound. Probably budget related. Specialists need to be paid for their work, and sometimes you need to commission the services of many specialists. The services I'm talking about are the audio recordists who use high quality audio equipment, and the sound engineers at sound studios with elaborate studio processing equipment, and you need a computer programmer who is fluent in Wwise for MSFS, you have to pay for all those services. But most importantly, you need free access to a P-51D. It all starts with a quality source of audio. I imagine it's incredibly expensive (if you're not Microsoft) to record the inside/out start up/run/shutdown of a P-51 Mustang these days, even if you can find one they would agree to pull it out and start it up for you. As you and a small crew run boom stands, expensive microphones and audio equipment all around the million dollar warplane, you're constantly under constraints of time and the critical eye of airport/owner authorities who don't understand your reason. It's a one shot deal and the pressure is enormous. Many months of planning for a 1 hour shot on the tarmac, weather permitting. So the logistics of getting that sound are complicated. It's too bad there wasn't a one company solution to this process.
To me, I consider a couple things. Aeroplane Heaven will always be one of my favorite companies, and I will always support their endeavors as long as I am able. Even if they are still learning and becoming proficient with the latest technologies, their heart is into it, and I like that about a product developer. Over time, it can only get better. Also, if there was enough work to sustain life as a full time aircraft sound recordist up here in frozen Ontario Canada, I would do that.

 

[bazzar]

100% agree with the HGU-55 helmet request b) please. I have repeated this plea for all Warbirds released so far in MSFS. In the non-combat, modern world of MSFS it makes perfect sense to me that the first priority should be to accurately replicate the restored warbird versions that we see today at Duxford, Old Warden, Chino, Reno etc al.

We like to depict these icons as they were in their heyday. Always have always will. That's our "priority"

Sounds.

This is, perhaps the most hotly discussed and debated subject in this game. With the change to WWise use and production comes a torrent of problems for developers. The learning curve for sound production is extensive to say the least. Sound is subjective too. We have many customers who like our sounds others who don't. WWise appears to have become the "new black" buzzword for people. Many have no idea what it means or could care less. If the writing on the box does not say WWise then the product is c/*!p. End of. Seriously?

Professional WWise sound production is very expensive to buy. Believe me, we are employing the best out there on the DC-3 right now. If we believe the budget and sales potential of a product warrants it, we will use a sound studio without question. But there are two main issues. 1) development time increases by some months and 2) product prices will have to rise to assist with recovering costs. Like the sound studios themselves, we run a business and need to maintain a reasonable profit. Otherwise there is no point in any of this.

If there are sound designers who want to work with us and can do this stuff, please contact me. I am serious.

 

[ColoKent]

100% agree with the HGU-55 helmet request b) please. I have repeated this plea for all Warbirds released so far in MSFS. In the non-combat, modern world of MSFS it makes perfect sense to me that the first priority should be to accurately replicate the restored warbird versions that we see today at Duxford, Old Warden, Chino, Reno etc al.

I didn't say "HGU-55", as that won't solve the problem, really...Would not work for the 1950s/60s schemes. We'd need an HGU-2/P for that. And BTW...private owners have used the HGU-2/P for decades as well...so we could scratch that itch too. I know many are "BEMHO" (look up the definition if you are interested) over the HGU-55 because is the "latest and greatest bitchin'-a$$" modern-day jet fighter helmet...but unless AH did both the -2/P and the -55, we'd still be stuck where we basically are now...with WWII or current day (albeit sans helmet)....Agree that other than civilians in the 60s, you almost NEVER see a civilian owner not wearing a helmet...

Just my .02 cents.

***EDIT*** Collensr: See there? Didn't make a difference anyway...didn't think it would...

Kent

 

[bazzar]

"Then comes an individual and do it good. Sued, arrested? fined? Don´t think so. Wonder if it is the law or someone's will, not to picture what they find wrong ."

Beaufighter, you are missing the point entirely.

Before I get into that, take a look at my age and I make these things...so curmudgeon away by all means but you are preaching to the converted my friend.

Now, the simple fact is, that as a developer of add-ons we are not allowed BY LAW to sell any aircraft depicting nazi symbols in most European countries. Our vendors would reject the product anyway as they have to abide by the rules also. Rules they or we did not make.

Freeware repainters are not bound by these laws because their work is FREE and distributed privately, for personal use ONLY.

The Marketplace on MSFS forbids weapons depiction OF ANY KIND and certainly forbids any nazi symbology. So we cannot sell warbirds with weapons or "kill markings" there either. BY LAW.

So, please stop shooting the messengers, getting any product to today's market is hard enough as it is.

 

[Twice43]

"Believe me, we are employing the best out there on the DC-3 right now."

Gee--z Baz, I'm looking for the 'Swoon' emoticon!
Music to my ears.
As they say in Oz, 'you little ripper!'
T43

 

[Tom Clayton]

Regarding historically accurate symbology...

There are those of us that want to see the planes we fly painted as they were when they originally flew. There are others of us that would rather see them painted as they would be today. Both desires are valid. But the reality is that some places do not allow certain symbols to be displayed. You can call it whatever you want, but Bazz and other dev's still have to abide by those laws. Fussing about it is about as useful as what this guy is doing. -> Keep doing it, and you'll just end up .

Buy it if you want it. Wait for the "accurate" liveries to be posted if you want to. But please keep this thread civil.

 

[DennyA]

Regarding the sounds, I did video clips of the Asobo P-51 and AH P-51 and compared them this Kermit Weeks cockpit video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQyDaMtjhfc

Neither sim P-51 sounded just like the real thing, but the Asobo Mustang was more similar on the low-end. I'm pretty sure that just accentuating the bass would give a better impression for both the AH Mustang and the F3F-2.

That said, though, having been lucky enough in my journalism days to spend some time in the cockpits of a few military planes in flight, all the armchair experts judging aircraft audio based on YouTube videos are missing a major aspect of real-life cockpit audio that is not captured by GoPros in cockpits: Real pilots in real planes, especially warbirds, are always wearing headsets. And those headsets isolate a lot of sound from the engine and environment. If you're judging how a plane should sound from cockpit recordings, you're missing a big part of the audio picture.

Also, WWise has become the new buzzword for the "feature bullet" crowd who look for things to complain about online to try to impress others with their expertise. If they can open the canopy and the sound doesn't change, they post "OMG it doesn't have WWise, it's unlistenable" no matter how awesome the sound actually is with the canopy closed (which is, y'know, host most planes are flown...). WWise can add a depth of sound features not found in standard audio in MSFS, but (1) WWise doesn't guarantee that sound is any better, and (2) you can do great audio without it, though it might miss a few bells and whistles.

I actually did open the canopy at about 8,000 feet in a Skywarriors T-34B once (I was getting really queasy from practicing dogfighting with another T-34) and even with the engine in front of me and the air whipping by at 170 mph, it wasn't loud. Because headset. The Continental in a T-34 is no Merlin, but it was plenty loud in the (VHS, it was the 90's!) cockpit recording I have.

Anyway, I'm not saying the AH planes can't use some tweaks in the audio department. I think balancing to add a bit more bass would be helpful and would probably satisfy a lot of the complaints. Interestingly, I though the AH P-51 sounded great on my sim PC (which has a small, cheapo subwoofer) and in headphones, but when I did the comparison, I did it on my video editing PC which is lighter on bass, and I could see how people thought it was a bit weak for a Merlin.

 

[UnknownGuest12]

Regarding historically accurate symbology...

Buy it if you want it. Wait for the "accurate" liveries to be posted if you want to. But please keep this thread civil.

Of course Tom, civil as always of course, why the remark ?. Everyone was respectful.

Bazzar, ok noticed that we are both getting old, thank you for enlightening me about that and the law about nazi symbols. Not aware about the difference about a commercial firm and an individual dev. Thought the law applied to everyone. it isn´t. Subject closed.
Best regards

 

[jankees]

I installed it again, and now we can take-off! yay!