AR196 Project in AD2K

hello Ivan,
a few years ago, a local hobby shop went out of business
and i acquired several WWII era models,
including a bf110 and do17.
they currently reside on a closet shelf, untouched.
don't know if i will ever find the time to assemble them,
but who knows, maybe someday...
the 196 model sounds very cool...covet, covet.

so, back to this fiasco.
i just spent a couple hours
writing a detailed explanation
of the wing to flap/aileron build process
and the build the hinge line and find it's angles process.
at first, i considered publishing it here,
but after looking at it, i decided not to.
talk about long winded...it's a flippin' typhoon!

long story longer...i used the wing you sent me,
copied it and removed everything, except the flap.
copied the wing again and removed everything,
except the aileron. then i added the sides
where the aileron and the flap join each other.
i also added the faces where each meets the wing.

i drew a line slitting the two faces in half horizontally,
root to tip and then, calculated the angle,
using the rotate feature of ad2k.
i came up with 5.8 to 5.9 degrees,
which is a accurate a the program will get.

next, i did the same thing from the top view
and came up with 5.4 degrees forward.

as i said above, i don't think the problem is the angles.
i can't seem to plug them into the program
and have them work for both extended and retracted.

i haven't even bothered with the aileron,
since it will involve the same process and angles.

here's a shot of the wing in 3d mode.
the modified wing in yellow,
the flap and aileron are in white,
and the added "hinge" line in green.

View attachment 59556

oh yeah, i forgot to mention,
i copied the wing again
and removed just the aileron and flap,
built the flap/aileron faces
and the aileron/wing tip edge.
 
BY JOVE,

I THINK I GOT IT!!! :jump:

starting at 03:30 this morning,
i reread the ad2k/fs2k tutorial
for the umteenth time...no exaggeration.
on the adding moving parts...page,
i noticed the line
"and this will make things simpler."
just for the heck of it, i clicked on simpler.
low and behold, a page came up
that explained how to calculate the angles
and how to set up the code.

well, i'll be jiggered!
it worked for the flap!
View attachment 59705
next, the aileron.

--------:kilroy:-----------
i don't remember if i mentioned this before,
but i found that i can compile this model
for fs2k and it will show in cfs.
(ad2k has both, fs98/cfs and fs2k/cfs2 compile options)
i still need to add the cfs/fs98 sequencing codes,
but there are a few fs2k features that will show
in cfs1 if i compile for fs2k.
i think that's how the B-17 was done.
if i am not mistaken, this model will be cfs1 and cfs2 compatible.
we shall see about that.

:a1089:enough talking, get back to work.
 
so much for the back flips
and all that kind of stuff.
it's a little much for an old man.

the aileron is done.
it works and shows properly.
along with all the other wing parts.
the main wing, flap, aileron and tip.

i was having a bleed problem with the wing tip,
so i chopped it off and put it in it's own subassembly,
made another seal plane, put it all together
and now she's sittin' pretty.

well, almost...when zoomed in,
there is a slight bit of the inner wing face showing.
it probably wouldn't show so bad,
if it wasn't orange.
i think i'll leave the easter egg as it is.

also, if you look at the above shot,
there is a shading issue with the tip.
i think i'll go mess with that now.

___________:running:____________
 
Hi Smilo,

If there is a feature in AD2000 to calculate the normals to each polygon on the wingtip you may find something interesting. I believe I got those polygons pretty close to where they should be, but this wing was built in about one evening, so I don't know that I checked as much as I should have. I still have it on my machine so I will check one of these evenings.

- Ivan.
 
hello Ivan,
sorry, i don't know what you mean,
"If there is a feature in AD2000 to calculate the normals
to each polygon on the wingtip"

what i did was delete the upper wingtip polys,
then copied the lowers, changed the coordinates
of the copies so they were the same as the deleted uppers,
then flipped them all.
interestingly, only one still has the shading issue.
all the others are okay. weird.
i still have not figured out why there is a shading issue, sometimes.

i have spent the afternoon and evening
working on the prop/spinner animation.
it's close, but no cigar.
i'm mainly, trying to figure out
exactly when the blur kicks in
and the turning props disappear.
the blur is one of those fs2k
things that works in cfs.
it uses alpha blending.

more later, i need to sleep... :sleep:
 
If the polygons don't all face consistent directions (normal vector to the polygon will tell you), then shading might look strange. I was pretty sure I didn't do anything quite that careless because I did check things out in my CFS installation.

Actually I had a thought overnight about the subject: There is a good possibility that just triangulating all the Wing Tip Polygons might fix the problem. I don't normally do that with AF99 because it costs resources.

- Ivan.
 
do you have the time to explain exactly what
..face consistent directions (normal vector to the polygon...
and
...just triangulating all the Wing Tip Polygons
mean and how to accomplish these things.

:isadizzy:....i guess i need a picture

i'm sure i could figure it out,
but i'm trying top focus my brain
on this prop viewing issue.
which, by the way, is closer.

thanks in advance for your assistance.
 
another update;
i've been working on the prop blades
and spinner animation for a few days now.
early this morning, i had a break-through.
i believe i've finally figured it out.

everything stops moving when the engine is shutdown.
when the engine is running, the spinner turns.
the blades turn from idle to about 65% throttle,
then disappear.
the prop disk is invisible at stop, idle,
and up to about 55% throttle.
at that point it appears up to 100% throttle.
there is a space at around 55% to 65%
where the prop and disk are both visible.

the prop disk is an alpha blend
which makes it, i believe, 80% transparent.
there is a setting for that,
but i haven't messed with it, yet.
the bmp has a yellow boarder that needs a little work.
i grabbed it from a B-17.

i haven't searched yet,
but does anyone know what color
the germans used for prop tips?
i'm thinking red, but i'm not sure.

of course, everything is built at 00,00,00
so i can pan around for a better view.
now, i need to move it all to it's proper location,
7.8 feet forward and 1.55 feet up.
that shouldn't be a problem.
i can do it with vectors.
(famous, last words)

i really need to get up and move around. :running:
my knees are aching from inactivity.
and then.....

i'm thinking, it's time to put
some of these pieces together,
just to see what happens.
it's going to take a wee bit of glue
and a heck of a lot of patience.
let's see about them limits.

finally, if anyone wants to take a look
at the prop/spinner assembly,
let me know and i'll post it.
there are part overlaps and bleeds
that i will deal with when
everything is moved into place.
once again, no problem.
 
did a little searching, as time allows.
found that prop tips weren't red on 196.
they will be black.

also, while looking around,
i cam to the conclusion
that i don't like my props,
so i've redone them.

nothing major, just not so pointy.
got rid of about six points on each one.
it's probably not even noticeable.
 
i don't know about the rest of yaz,
but i needed to see what this thing
is going to look like.

i also needed to see if the animations
would work in the main model.
flaps are extended and the control surfaces function.
haven't done the spinner/prop yet.
that's just a prop...pun intended.

this also, is a limits test.
so far, so good in that department.

the interior has a long way to go.
there is no lower intake or exhausts.
no tailgun or forward gun pod.
i still need to figure out
the bottom floats visibility issue,
but i have a few ideas.
and then, if there's room,
a few surprises i'm mulling over.

there is still the coding for other views.
sorry, this one is just a visual teaser.
(i should post a shot of the view from the rear)
i think i'll work on that, today and tomorrow.

although, i don't know how much
i'll get done on sunday.
the wife has invited people over for the races.
DANG!!! i've gotta go be social again.

--------------:kilroy:---------------
oh yeah, i learned an important lesson today.
i'm not sure, but this might have been for the second time.

when i was putting together the model,
i was searching through the files
for the right wing/float/frames 3DM model file.
it was nowhere to be found,
but there was a rw/float/frames MD1 file.

ad2k creates MD1 files, but will not open them.
they can not be seen in the sim,
but can be inserted into a master project
and then, can be seen
in the sim as a part of the main model.
the purpose is that it saves space.

to create one, you need to rename a master project,
uncheck the master project box and compile and save.
apparently, i after compiling the MD1,
i forgot to go back to rename the project
and check the master project box.
so...i lost the right wing/floats/frames master project.

AAAAAARRRGH!!!!!

but wait...i have a flash drive that i use for backups.
i went back a few days and there it was.
whew.
catastrophe averted.
i may be learning
 
here's that shot of the view from the rear;
View attachment 59806
nice mess, huh?
anybody seen that instruction sheet?

i've spent the morning
getting the mid fuselage, windscreen,
the cockpit and gun station interiors
and the canopy frames and glass (interior and exterior)
up to snuff and consolidated.

i've also added a forward fuselage
that will be forward of the windscreen
to the aft of the cowling.
it's a minor section, but will also have
the accessories, like air scoop,
exhausts and forward gun pod.
i think i will move it out of the mid fuselage
and create a new forward fuselage master project.
that way i can keep it consolidated
and view the build without distractions.

after the last post, i've been thinking
about the inserting of MD1 assemblies
into the main model to save space.
i am seriously considering an experiment
to see how far i can take this concept.
the 196 project has been a series
of master projects for each section of the ac.
needless to say, each section is highly detailed.

so far, i have master projects for;
the mid fuselage, which includes the interior and canopy,
the tail section, the cowling, the prop and spinner,
the right wing/frames and float,
and the left wing/frames and float.
finally, there are the right wing control surfaces
and the left wing control surfaces.
as i said, each of these assemblies
are individual master projects,
with the seal/glue, for the most part,
already done within each.

so, why not just convert each to a MD1,
(while not forgetting to put them back to 3DMs)
create a new master project,
and then, insert each into that master?

unless i am sadly mistaken,
all i would need to do is seal/glue
the inserted assemblies together,
so they don't bleed over each other.

i'm very anxious to give this a try.:jump:
so, stop talkin' and start rockin'
 
Hi Smilo,

You asked about Normals and Triangulating earlier. Here are some screenshots to illustrate.

The normal to a plane is a vector that is perpendicular to the plane. The problem with guessing about these in AF99 is that you really can't spin the object around. All you have is a Side, Top, or Front view. If AD2000 helps you calculate normals, and you see this kind of sictuation (Orange Normal), you know something is probably wrong. In general each part's slope should be between that of the part in ahead of it and the part behind it. The problem is that once you adjust the slope of one part, you may affect the others and havce to adjust them as well and then you are back to the first part..... You get the idea. I had to do an awful lot of that with the Nose / Cowl area on the Hawk 81.

Also if your Polygons are not in nice even rows, even if they look right in the development tool from the orthogonal angles, you might get a weird combination when a 3D view is seen in the simulator.

- Ivan.
 
Hi Smilo,

As for Triangulating a Polygon, keep in mind that a Triangle MUST fit within a plane. Anything with more Vertices MAY fit within a plane but also may not. Because of limitations on the number of "Parts" in AF99, folks generally use a lot of Polygons with 4 or more Vertices. When these Parts are displayed in the simulator, they often blink out when viewed from shallow angles.

When that effect is objectionable and there are sufficient resources, we can take a 4 sided Polygon and divide it into two Triangles by cutting along a diagonal. Since we are cutting along a diagonal, there are two ways to do this. One way will give a Convex effect. The other will give a Concave effect. (If it were Flat - Neither Concave nor Convex we would not be doing this!) For most pieces of an aircraft, the best choice is to make the combination Convex. (The exception is for things like Wing Fillets which are Concave in reality.)

In looking at this Wing Tip, the Side View is misleading because the Outside edge of the Part (Unconnected Side) isn't parallel to the Inside Edge. The Top View is pretty much useless for information. The Front View shows the difference in angles between the Fore and Aft Edges of the Polygon.

From this I believe Choice 2 is better.

- Ivan.
 
hello Ivan,
thanks for the pictures and explanation.
i will check it out later.
for now, i am reassembling
using the technique i mentioned above.
it was smooth sailing from the tail
to the spinner and prop.
then i hit a small snag.
as the view rotated horizontally around the ac,
everything would disappear as soon as
i got perpendicular to the spinner.
turns out the seal was just a bit off.

i'm sure it's the same thing now,
with the wings and floats.
i am just unable to figure it out.

at this point, i think the best thing
will be to step away for a while
and take a break.

:icon_eek: i'm a little fried. :greenf:
 
thanks for the encouragement, Dave.
i'm back at it after a short nap.
i've already tried one idea i came up with,
no joy.
so i took a screen shot of my coding so far,
dumped it and am starting over.
sorta, kinda.
it's still there, but i've blocked it
and started writing new above it.
so far, the first part has worked.
we'll see about the rest
 
this is a real pain in the a$$,
both, figuratively and literally.

i've been sitting here for far too long.
since 04:30, to be exact.
okay, i got up to get some coffee
at about 7:30, but other than that...

every time i put together a model
that seems like it will work,
i jump in the sim and something,
somewhere is bleeding through.
i go back, correct it, reload
and either it's still screwed up
or something else is out of whack.
bitch and moan, bitch and moan.

so far, i have the tail section,
the fuselage, cowl, prop and spinner,
and the floats and frames,
all showing pretty decently.
yeah, there are a couple issues,
but they are minor and i can live with them.
then, when i add the wings...:pop4:
it all goes to hell in a hand basket.
i thought i had it figured out,
went back and rebuilt, tried it,
no joy...i'll just say, fudge.
i know the solution is there,
i just need to find it.

maybe, watching nascar shortly
will take my mind off it for a while.
but i doubt it.
judging from past experience,
i'll sit there watching the all commercials,
pretending to be interested in the race.
when in truth, i'm thinking about the project.
the hard part is if, and when, i get an idea,
i can't jump up and go try it.
i have to sit there and try to remember it.
good luck with that.

i can hardly wait for the time
when i know how to do this,
so i can stop the incessant complaining.
it must be tiresome for you.
it surely is for me. sorry


one other thing to report;
building a master assembly using just inserts
and coding is a real space saver.
currently, the main project 3DM is only 70.2kb
and it includes nearly everything
condensed to MD1 files, plus the coding.
in contrast, the individual section 3DMs
range in size from 17kb to 144kb,
with most hovering around 70kb.
this is a real savings in final resources.
 
greetings all, whinelo, here.

a few days ago, i spent a lot of time
trying to figure out a couple
of ad2k animation commands.
they are, basically, designed
to be used with props.
one of them, calls for the prop to turn.
the other, basically, makes the blades
disappear and the blur disk
appear at a selected throttle %
and vice versa.

while muddling through each setting,
i wondered why the props weren't turning.
duh, i figured out that i had not
used the prop turn call.
purely by accident,
i finally thought, hmmm,
i wonder if....ah....maybe later.

well, later has come and gone,
and i have run a few experiments.
HOT DAMN, i can make the bottom
of a float appear and disappear,
based on the throttle percentage.

granted, this test was rudimentary,
but i have no doubt that a solution
to a float sitting on the water
and a float up in the air
visualization problem has been found.
now, for the fine tuning.

as far as i'm concerned,
this is a very cool turn of events.

:greenbo:to bad the races were rained out, huh?:greenbo:
 
Hello Smilo,

I do the same kind of Propeller animation in Aircraft Animator. I am guessing that it is really Propeller RPM Percentage rather than Throttle Percentage that is the setting here.

Typically this is what I do:
Blades Shown from 0-35%
Blades become Transparent above 30%
Transparent Propeller Disc shows from 30% to 100%
Propeller Blur shows from 35% to 100%.

That generally works pretty well for me. I also try really hard to get the Propeller Blur (Transparent Triangular Shapes) to rotate in the same direction as the actual Propeller rotates at maximum RPM. I want the Blades to show at Idle which I try to set around 500-700 RPM.

Hope this helps.
- Ivan.
 
....One other thing: The AIR file also affects what happens here. Look at Minimum and Maximum Governed RPM. I use that to tune Propeller Blue rotation direction.

- Ivan.
 
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