Arado-234 freeware?
- Thread starter dmaloof
- Start date
BorekS
Members +
Basically I am done with the changes I've planned for the beta public release. Now I would spend some day to replace some of the front panel gauges and and I would make the right panel engine related gauges working yet.
As to flight model and other end user editable tweaks I would let it on the community, after the release.
BorekS
Members +
I think there is no free hand now, all modders are pretty busy with own projects yet, our planned helijahs Ar 234B-2 model based release is still meant like a beta solution and it just may serve as a tweakable startup stuff after the release, so its ok to me, how is it now however needs to say the beta FM is addapted from the stock Me 262 by hairyspin and acts as the Blitz already, be my feeling
The later release, if will come, should be the fully scratch made Blitz / Nachtigall 3d model based. But technically it looks similar to the helijahs based release, because there is cca 75% overhaul fingerprints of me now... and the texture uv-mapping match cca 90% of the actual Bravo/4s skin template
yet, our planned helijahs Ar 234B-2 model based release is still meant like a beta solution and it just may serve as a tweakable startup stuff after the release, so its ok to me, how is it now however needs to say the beta FM is addapted from the stock Me 262 by hairyspin and acts as the Blitz already, be my feeling The later release, if will come, should be the fully scratch made Blitz / Nachtigall 3d model based. But technically it looks similar to the helijahs based release, because there is cca 75% overhaul fingerprints of me now... and the texture uv-mapping match cca 90% of the actual Bravo/4s skin template
BorekS
Members +
Manifold Pressure gauge
working on the (gmaxed) gauges now.
well, all images seems presents the most left positioned panel gauge as "manifold pressure", see
images:
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/67/ac/75/67ac7526e631a37461806197a3bba1a1.jpg
https://www.surclaro.com/addons/hd-images/ar234pnl.jpg
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/eb64VkBOCWw/maxresdefault.jpg
such gauge can work in CFS3 (is a part of stock Ju-88 for example). but it doesnt work at our Ar 234 jet. most easy way how to check it is to put into the VC the manifold pressure tooltip gauge, as I did. but it is always "0". so the related needle(s) can never work of course.
I can do (I did temporary) the gauge another function, but I still would like to know:
is manifold pressure gauge a matter of CFS3 propeller airplanes only?
if not, then there needs to redo something in our .air file? I didnt found anything such related in the .xdp file.
working on the (gmaxed) gauges now.
well, all images seems presents the most left positioned panel gauge as "manifold pressure", see
images:
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/67/ac/75/67ac7526e631a37461806197a3bba1a1.jpg
https://www.surclaro.com/addons/hd-images/ar234pnl.jpg
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/eb64VkBOCWw/maxresdefault.jpg
such gauge can work in CFS3 (is a part of stock Ju-88 for example). but it doesnt work at our Ar 234 jet. most easy way how to check it is to put into the VC the manifold pressure tooltip gauge, as I did. but it is always "0". so the related needle(s) can never work of course.
I can do (I did temporary) the gauge another function, but I still would like to know:
is manifold pressure gauge a matter of CFS3 propeller airplanes only?
if not, then there needs to redo something in our .air file? I didnt found anything such related in the .xdp file.
gecko
Charter Member
Do you have a source that says what it is supposed to be measuring? The handful of photos I found are either too small or have that gauge covered by the controls. The Il-2 pic shows a gauge with two needles and two scales, while the pictures of the real aircraft seem to show 1 needle and one scale, although there is still the chance that there are two needles, one above the other on the same scale, as is common on some engine gauges for twin engine aircraft. If it's an engine gauge it would make sense for there to be two needles.
If it's an engine pressure gauge of some sort, EPR or Torque would be good options, as these could be correlated to whatever pressure it is supposed to read in the FM. On the Komet we used the oil pressure gauge for something similar. That one may be best since it can be adjusted in the FM without effecting engine power. I'm not sure about the other two, I've not done a jet engine before.
If it's an engine pressure gauge of some sort, EPR or Torque would be good options, as these could be correlated to whatever pressure it is supposed to read in the FM. On the Komet we used the oil pressure gauge for something similar. That one may be best since it can be adjusted in the FM without effecting engine power. I'm not sure about the other two, I've not done a jet engine before.
BorekS
Members +
the "manifold pressure" term is depicted on the CFS2 screenshot above. the other google reachable sources are bad to recognise as you mentioned.
at WINGS OF POWER / FIREPOWER pdf manual is this Ar 234B gauge marked just like a "pressure".
at one real Blitz book is there image depicting cca 10% of this gauge, still there is a visible description "Gasdruck". no need to translate I guess
the point is why "manifold pressure" doesnt work in our jet projet at all. to fake or replace such gauge with something else is not problem for me, I am just not sure if it is neccessarry
at WINGS OF POWER / FIREPOWER pdf manual is this Ar 234B gauge marked just like a "pressure".
at one real Blitz book is there image depicting cca 10% of this gauge, still there is a visible description "Gasdruck". no need to translate I guess
the point is why "manifold pressure" doesnt work in our jet projet at all. to fake or replace such gauge with something else is not problem for me, I am just not sure if it is neccessarry
BorekS
Members +
thank you for help do decide how to take it
ok, I did the gauge tooltip and needle "engine pressure ratio" tagged. I never used it before, I think. the CFS3 SDK readme says 0-5 key animation value set. our Blitz usually runs cca 1 - 2 unit at stright flight, however can reach the max value in a very mad, live dangerous dive bombing angle, at full speed so, I am taking it as a solved thing.
ok, I did the gauge tooltip and needle "engine pressure ratio" tagged. I never used it before, I think. the CFS3 SDK readme says 0-5 key animation value set. our Blitz usually runs cca 1 - 2 unit at stright flight, however can reach the max value in a very mad, live dangerous dive bombing angle, at full speed
so, I am taking it as a solved thing.
Frosty
SOH-CM-2022
It is an EPR gauge.
My sincere apologies that I didn't think of this before but I went through the books in the developer's eLibrary and there are some on the Ar 234. The Aero Detail No.16 -book has some decent cockpit photo's of a restored aircraft and labels the lower left most gauge as an EPR gauge.
Borek, I don't know if you are still interested as this comes quite late in your modelling process but I have zipped up 9 books that mention the Ar 234. Check your PM for the download data.
There's even a copy of an original flight handbook for the 'B' model. In German, of course, and some others appear to be in Polish or Czech but that's probably decipherable for you
...
BorekS
Members +
great, thank you very much, Frosty!
yes, to read books in english, german, czech or polish isnt a problem
ok, one book depicts the gauge as I recogised it originally as the manifold pressure in ata units. compare the values with the Ju-88 panel sample below.
note: a bit confusing is the Ju-88 CFS3 depicted unit 21 PSI on the 0.7 ata dial paint. the 0.7 value match 21 HG unit infact. hell, who cares, right?
lets still stuck with the 0 - 5 valued engine pressure ratio (EPR) gauge solution for now I have to keep some other pressure gauge library for the right panel yet
and here is what should come as next work to do.
yes, to read books in english, german, czech or polish isnt a problem
ok, one book depicts the gauge as I recogised it originally as the manifold pressure in ata units. compare the values with the Ju-88 panel sample below.
note: a bit confusing is the Ju-88 CFS3 depicted unit 21 PSI on the 0.7 ata dial paint. the 0.7 value match 21 HG unit infact. hell, who cares, right?
lets still stuck with the 0 - 5 valued engine pressure ratio (EPR) gauge solution for now
I have to keep some other pressure gauge library for the right panel yet and here is what should come as next work to do.
Hi Borek,
The EPR gauge, yes, as you say it it the engine pressure ratio, it shows the overall pressure ratio. BUT the gauges are measuring different things, at different locations in an internal combustion and a jet engine, but ending up with the same result.
Whereas an internal combustion engine would have a manifold pressure gauge measuring at the inlet manifold, as in the Ju88 you mention, this would be measurring the pressure of the mixture coming from the turbo-charger and fuel injection, before it enters the engine. It would be linked automatically to the fuel injection (which could be also manually altered by the pilot and throttle) and the turbo-charging system (which has a pressure regulated waste gate). There may also be an EGT (exhaust gas temp) gauge for fuel mixture and pressure regulation.
On the jet engine, as in the Ar234, the EPR is measured at the exhaust, and in the later models of the BMW 004 it would automatically adjust or the pilot could make manual adjustments to the 'zwiebel' (onion) in the eflux/exhaust area and throttle, to keep the back-pressure and therefore the overall ratio within limits. They also had an engine temp gauge which measured the combustion chamber temps.
I think to get it to work properly would be very hard as you would have provide inter-correlating performance graphs for the throttle, EPR, air temp, altitude/air pressure...would be brilliant but....
(engineers are damn clever people!!)
Cheers
Shessi
The EPR gauge, yes, as you say it it the engine pressure ratio, it shows the overall pressure ratio. BUT the gauges are measuring different things, at different locations in an internal combustion and a jet engine, but ending up with the same result.
Whereas an internal combustion engine would have a manifold pressure gauge measuring at the inlet manifold, as in the Ju88 you mention, this would be measurring the pressure of the mixture coming from the turbo-charger and fuel injection, before it enters the engine. It would be linked automatically to the fuel injection (which could be also manually altered by the pilot and throttle) and the turbo-charging system (which has a pressure regulated waste gate). There may also be an EGT (exhaust gas temp) gauge for fuel mixture and pressure regulation.
On the jet engine, as in the Ar234, the EPR is measured at the exhaust, and in the later models of the BMW 004 it would automatically adjust or the pilot could make manual adjustments to the 'zwiebel' (onion) in the eflux/exhaust area and throttle, to keep the back-pressure and therefore the overall ratio within limits. They also had an engine temp gauge which measured the combustion chamber temps.
I think to get it to work properly would be very hard as you would have provide inter-correlating performance graphs for the throttle, EPR, air temp, altitude/air pressure...would be brilliant but....
(engineers are damn clever people!!)
Cheers
Shessi
BorekS
Members +
yum, thank you for the explanation, Shessi!
ok, I would try to solve the right panel gauges now and will see what it all gives. then I could return to the pressure gauge case again
as gecko mentioned some CFS3 gauges can be solved just as some kind of compromise... at the end they can look as the real ones, but will present other data
ok, I would try to solve the right panel gauges now and will see what it all gives. then I could return to the pressure gauge case again
as gecko mentioned some CFS3 gauges can be solved just as some kind of compromise... at the end they can look as the real ones, but will present other data
Last edited:
BorekS
Members +
ok, really having issues to synchronise some of the gmaxed german (european) dial values with the uk/us needle keyframe and tooltip logics, but hell, who cares, its about a beta release. it can fly...
the right panel gauge tool tip so like the needles are set to show oil pressure, fuel pressure, engine temperature, inlet turbine temperature and fuel content.
the left panel contents gauges to show flaps, elevator and rudder position.
its nothing special, but its better then a static panel paint I suppose.
the right panel gauge tool tip so like the needles are set to show oil pressure, fuel pressure, engine temperature, inlet turbine temperature and fuel content.
the left panel contents gauges to show flaps, elevator and rudder position.
its nothing special, but its better then a static panel paint I suppose.