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FSX on a MAC

Great thread...

....I have been debating going the Mac route for the last six months. Lemme tell you-- it isn't a debate anymore in my mind....I'm saving up to make the change to Mac.

PCs seem to me like Bill Gates' science fair project gone out of control (and I say this as a person who runs machines with both Vista and XP...and they have run pretty doggone well over the years, so I don't have a particular axe to grind there).

The Macs are well thought out and engineered-- much less of a "kluge job" than PCs and Windows [expecially Vista], in my opinion.

The only thing I can say to those who have (repeatedly) pointed out how comparatively expensive the Macs are versus PCs is "Yeah, you're right. And BMWs Z4s are more expensive than Toyota Corollas-- what's your point?" If you can't afford a Mac, then don't buy one-- but I wouldn't knock someone else based on how they choose to spend their money.

I wish we could have a logical technical discussion on this. Personally, I like what those on this board who are flying FSX on the Mac have to say.

It's interesting how polarized people get on this topic-- not just on this board, but EVERYWHERE.

Cheers,

Kent
 
ColoKent said:
....I have been debating going the Mac route for the last six months. Lemme tell you-- it isn't a debate anymore in my mind....I'm saving up to make the change to Mac.

PCs seem to me like Bill Gates' science fair project gone out of control (and I say this as a person who runs machines with both Vista and XP...and they have run pretty doggone well over the years, so I don't have a particular axe to grind there).

The Macs are well thought out and engineered-- much less of a "kluge job" than PCs and Windows [expecially Vista], in my opinion.

The only thing I can say to those who have (repeatedly) pointed out how comparatively expensive the Macs are versus PCs is "Yeah, you're right. And BMWs Z4s are more expensive than Toyota Corollas-- what's your point?" If you can't afford a Mac, then don't buy one-- but I wouldn't knock someone else based on how they choose to spend their money.

I wish we could have a logical technical discussion on this. Personally, I like what those on this board who are flying FSX on the Mac have to say.

It's interesting how polarized people get on this topic-- not just on this board, but EVERYWHERE.

Cheers,

Kent
Click to expand...

Kent I understand where you are coming from, which I why I responded to the wild-eye fanaticism that seems to come with MAC ownership. I represent both camps. I want MAC to succeed as they are a part of my income. I not only repair but help with setup and answer help desk questions at times, but like said APPLE betrayed those of us who believed in the original dream that the WOZ and JOBS had promised in the beginning...that was to provide the simplest to use, least expensive platform for the common user.

There is nothing in an Apple better engineered that you can get on a custom PC...that is the truth. IF you build the custom PC yourself you will beat Apple prices by a large margin and have a PC you should not have to crack the case on. Mine is 4 months old and never been opened or down-except to add an E8600 processor-try doing that on a MAC. My wife's is over a year and never been opened or down.

The other problem with MAC is that it is still not ready for prime-time gaming. I run FSX with all sliders right except autogen at very dense and maintain 40 fps (36fps solid in a storm over New York-I posted those pictures on here) you can't even come close to that in a MAC. I play CRYSIS at 80fps, you are lucky if you can reach 40 in a MAC. For the price you pay it is no smoother than a well built custom unit that cost a lot less. I have told APPLE at the tech conferences over and over again that if they want to capture the market they have got to address gaming on a wide scale-they just continue appealing to yuppies who, by the way, now no longer have the money to support their APPLE habit.

-Allow people to open their box and change out parts
-Make high-end processors available for the masses
-Make high-end video cards(SLI and CROSSFIRE) available even if it is external-that one really chaps thier arse because it takes away from their stupid idea of simplicity. My God you can unplug and go back to simple and play chess!:karate:
-Forgot this one-Open up to third party vendors-NOW

Trying to talk to Apple from a tech standpoint is hopelsss they have made up their minds in the direction they are going. Why pay their riduculous prices for a system that doesn't do as well gaming as a lower priced home built unit? Sometimes I'd like to take an i-ERASER and clean out the marketing and engineering departments!
Ted
 
ColoKent said:
The Macs are well thought out and engineered-- much less of a "kluge job" than PCs and Windows [expecially Vista], in my opinion.

The only thing I can say to those who have (repeatedly) pointed out how comparatively expensive the Macs are versus PCs is "Yeah, you're right. And BMWs Z4s are more expensive than Toyota Corollas-- what's your point?" If you can't afford a Mac, then don't buy one-- but I wouldn't knock someone else based on how they choose to spend their money.
Click to expand...

I just started college again yesterday and all of the computers there had XP on them... ugh. I know how much I really like Vista Ultimate now. XP feels like its 8 years old. Oh wait, it is!

Even better, I didn't see a single mac in the entire building including the IT department and all the computer labs... that was a relief.

ColoKent, your car analogy would work if it were true. There's nothing more fancy or better about a Mac, it just simply costs more. Not affording it isn't a reason for me not to get one. Its inferior and aged parts, lack of software support, and even its move to Intel are reasons I'd never even consider them. If I want an Intel machine, I'll put windows and linux on it, play the latest games, have access to something that ISN'T windows, get better performance, and save a ton of money.

I've read every word the mac supporters say and I STILL don't see a reason to buy one. Not a single real reason. I guess I'm missing something? I don't understand the sophistication of the mac? I'm trying to be open too, but no one has presented a single good AND TRUE reason to buy a mac over a "PC".

I don't know what it is, but I'm not getting it.:help:
 
txnetcop said:
There is nothing in an Apple better engineered that you can get on a custom PC...that is the truth. IF you build the custom PC yourself you will beat Apple prices by a large margin and have a PC you should not have to crack the case on. Mine is 4 months old and never been opened or down-except to add an E8600 processor-try doing that on a MAC. My wife's is over a year and never been opened or down.

For the price you pay it is no smoother than a well built custom unit that cost a lot less. I have told APPLE at the tech conferences over and over again that if they want to capture the market they have got to address gaming on a wide scale-they just continue appealing to yuppies who, by the way, now no longer have the money to support their APPLE habit.


Why pay their riduculous prices for a system that doesn't do as well gaming as a lower priced home built unit? Sometimes I'd like to take an i-ERASER and clean out the marketing and engineering departments!
Ted
Click to expand...

Love the iERASER comment, Ted!!:amen:

I can say the same about my homebuilt PC's. I haven't had to open them except to make sure they're clean from dust particles and cat hair. (My wife has a cat that resides inside our house during the cold days and nights of winter!)

I view Macs the same as Starbucks; overpriced comfort computers. :d

Kevin
 
Wiens said:
Love the iERASER comment, Ted!!:amen:

I can say the same about my homebuilt PC's. I haven't had to open them except to make sure they're clean from dust particles and cat hair. (My wife has a cat that resides inside our house during the cold days and nights of winter!)

I view Macs the same as Starbucks; overpriced comfort computers. :d

Kevin
Click to expand...

Heres how I see this issue. Ted has built 3 computers for me and I have never had to go inside the box, except to keep them clean as Wiens said. I have one computer that is over a year old and another that is 9 months old. There performance is is outstanding. So as I see it if it aint broke dont fix it. I beleive that Ted gave the best and as a former pilot , I expect my Flight Sims to perform at a high level. Mine do just that and I will just open the box and make sure they are clean. Time to go flying.
 
txnetcop said:
Kent I understand where you are coming from, which I why I responded to the wild-eye fanaticism that seems to come with MAC ownership. I represent both camps. I want MAC to succeed as they are a part of my income. I not only repair but help with setup and answer help desk questions at times, but like said APPLE betrayed those of us who believed in the original dream that the WOZ and JOBS had promised in the beginning...that was to provide the simplest to use, least expensive platform for the common user.

There is nothing in an Apple better engineered that you can get on a custom PC...that is the truth. IF you build the custom PC yourself you will beat Apple prices by a large margin and have a PC you should not have to crack the case on. Mine is 4 months old and never been opened or down-except to add an E8600 processor-try doing that on a MAC. My wife's is over a year and never been opened or down.

The other problem with MAC is that it is still not ready for prime-time gaming. I run FSX with all sliders right except autogen at very dense and maintain 40 fps (36fps solid in a storm over New York-I posted those pictures on here) you can't even come close to that in a MAC. I play CRYSIS at 80fps, you are lucky if you can reach 40 in a MAC. For the price you pay it is no smoother than a well built custom unit that cost a lot less. I have told APPLE at the tech conferences over and over again that if they want to capture the market they have got to address gaming on a wide scale-they just continue appealing to yuppies who, by the way, now no longer have the money to support their APPLE habit.

-Allow people to open their box and change out parts
-Make high-end processors available for the masses
-Make high-end video cards(SLI and CROSSFIRE) available even if it is external-that one really chaps thier arse because it takes away from their stupid idea of simplicity. My God you can unplug and go back to simple and play chess!:karate:
-Forgot this one-Open up to third party vendors-NOW

Trying to talk to Apple from a tech standpoint is hopelsss they have made up their minds in the direction they are going. Why pay their riduculous prices for a system that doesn't do as well gaming as a lower priced home built unit? Sometimes I'd like to take an i-ERASER and clean out the marketing and engineering departments!
Ted
Click to expand...



Lovin my Mac. :d Runs FSX... All is well.


:rapture:


Bill
 
Aaarg! As the OP, I was leary of posting this 'FSX on a MAC' question, even here. It's almost impossible to mention Mac on a predominatly PC Forum or just the opposite without the pitchforks and nooses coming out. It always starts out nice but has a tendency to deteriate to a 'my 'computers bigger than yours' contest.

Both 'sides' (it's unfortunate that sides end up being taken among a group with a common interest) make good points and it's great to hear from experienced (I'm not gonna use the word 'experts' to avoid more trouble) computer users that can give us all good insight. Unfortunatly, personal experience can bring with it personal bias and maybe even a chip on the shoulder or two (at least thats the way it comes across when read) which intern has a tendency to lessen the validity of a post from a readers point of view.

Just to be clear, I like PC's. Maybe because I like to tinker and try to make things faster . I had a great time building my own custom PC and it turned out pretty darn nice for the most part but I cant say it doesn't suffer from many of the same hassles a PC owner has to deal with. It's 3 yrs old now with all the original components and it's still my main home computer so I must have learned enough to at least pick compatable parts.

But, I've also been curious about all the Apple hype. Not just from cheesy commercials but from regular folks that own one, my neighbor, a brother in law, guys at work. Like I said, an unplanned stop into a new Apple store left me genuinely impressed. But the prices, yikes! (I still dont want to know what my wife paid for this thing) Theres no argument that for what one of these costs you could build a much more powerful gaming PC.

Speaking of which, I also have to agree that , so far, there's no MAC that I know of that can beat a PC for gaming. My new Macbook Pro is way ahead of my old custom PC as far as specs go...

PC:
CPU:AMD Athlon 64 3700+ 939 90nm 1mb L2 cache
GPU:1-BFG GeForce 7800 GTX OC 256mb
Memory:2GB (2x1GB) Crucial Ballistix Tracer PC4000

Macbook Pro:
CPU:Intel Core 2 Duo 2.8GHz 1066MHz frontside bus with 6MB L2 Cache
GPU:Nvidia GeForce 9600 GT with 512MB of GDDR3 memory
Memory:4GB 1066MHz DDR3 SDRAM

So there should be a big difference in gaming for me (we'll find out when XP arrives in the mail). Never thought a 'notebook' (much less, a Mac!) could ever stomp all over my custom PC. But I know right well I could rebuild my ol' PC today with components much, much faster and maybe some day I will.

I'm glad I now have a Mac, I'm very impressed with it's workmanship, smooth interface and ease of use but I wont be getting rid of my PC because of it. I expect it will play FSX just fine (COD 4 Modern Warfare looks/plays freak'in awesome!), Apple has made huge strides towards gameability, but, PC's are still king in the gaming world.

Thanks for all the replies, and I'll leave it at that.


Codeseven
 
Congrats and best wishes to Codeseven, Lionheart, Ghostrider and all of the other Mac users that are enjoying their FSX experience. I'd be the first to admit that I have no experience of Apple's products whatsoever. I work for a company who build gaming computers that are on the "bleeding edge" of technology and there isn't a Mac in sight:kilroy::whistle::engel016:.
Both platforms have their own merits, but we would be wise to accept their shortcomings too. If you need a gaming platform then , as of this moment, PC's cannot be beaten. If you need to burn a DVD....then get a Mac (unless you can wait a few years to burn one off using a PC, obviously) ;):d
 
THAT does it...

I've reconsidered. Since someone on this board pointed out that Macs are "Yuppie" computers, I won't be getting one after all. God forbid anyone think I'm a yuppie-- that's what motivates me...someone trying to make their point by resorting to name calling. Nice try.

I didn't post here to convert people to Mac...I don't currently own a Mac, and I don't dislike PCs. I do however, like the Mac interface-- and I can afford to buy it (Sorry if you are one of those who can't-- look at the bright side: "Change" is on the way--BHO style). I also like Starbuck's-- and I can afford to buy those too-- a lot of 'em as a matter of fact.

I don't care who uses PCs on this board (and if they are happy with them, more power to them), and I don't care who uses Macs (and if they are happy with their machines, more power to them, TOO)-- I don't lend much credence to those who say that one is "better" than the other...I think it just depends on the application and your personal preferences.

I'll readily agree that FSX most likely runs better on a PC. I am intrigued however, at the possibility of getting 25-30 FPS on a Mac-- because I do many, many other things on my computer besides fly FSX. And I'm willing to get 25-30 FPS in FSX on the Mac, in order to have an enjoyable experience using the Mac for other things.

Cheers,

Kent

P.S. Does anyone know where I can get a good latte and biscotti tonight? Heh heh
 
ColoKent said:
I've reconsidered. Since someone on this board pointed out that Macs are "Yuppie" computers, I won't be getting one after all. God forbid anyone think I'm a yuppie-- that's what motivates me...someone trying to make their point by resorting to name calling. Nice try.

I didn't post here to convert people to Mac...I don't currently own a Mac, and I don't dislike PCs. I do however, like the Mac interface-- and I can afford to buy it (Sorry if you are one of those who can't-- look at the bright side: "Change" is on the way--BHO style). I also like Starbuck's-- and I can afford to buy those too-- a lot of 'em as a matter of fact.

I don't care who uses PCs on this board (and if they are happy with them, more power to them), and I don't care who uses Macs (and if they are happy with their machines, more power to them, TOO)-- I don't lend much credence to those who say that one is "better" than the other...I think it just depends on the application and your personal preferences.

I'll readily agree that FSX most likely runs better on a PC. I am intrigued however, at the possibility of getting 25-30 FPS on a Mac-- because I do many, many other things on my computer besides fly FSX. And I'm willing to get 25-30 FPS in FSX on the Mac, in order to have an enjoyable experience using the Mac for other things.

Cheers,

Kent

P.S. Does anyone know where I can get a good latte and biscotti tonight? Heh heh
Click to expand...

Kent I am not surprised you would try to malign me and say that I called you a yuppie, reread the post and this time without all the emotion. I could care less that you are getting MAC, all I was doing was pointing out both sides of the equation as I not only have access to MACs but repair same. The choice is yours and you will not be maligned for it. We welcome debate in this forum. You're supposed to be an adult and you wanted logical debate and you got it. It should not become emotional. Have a latte on me:ernae:
Ted
 
I'm the one that brought up the Starbucks analogy and therefore the migration to an accusation of being a "yuppie"!

:focus:


Kevin

PS. My brother-in-law is a Mac fanatic and he is a yuppie.............:d
 
Hey, I dont mind being called a yuppie.. They seem to have level heads on their shoulders and I think alot of them are probably into being pilots and other high asperations in life.

Lets not let this get out of hand. :focus:



Bill
 
By the way, to clear up something. They are indeed designed to be worked on, and this one is deisgned for extreme simplicity of it. No wires in the way, etc. Everything is 'slots' and full access. Note the row of HD's along the top, and the RAM chambers at the bottom, (2) with a capacity of 32 Gigs of DDR3 RAM.

From what I understand, its all 'snap in' or uses those finger tightened 'textured' screws.

This is one of my next goals, the G5 tower.
 
I'm done here...

If anyone with a Mac wants to PM and talk about their experience, that would be great-- I would love to hear about it.

Later,

Kent
 
I still can't see the point of buying a Mac to play Windows games on. If all I wanted to do was use Office type stuff with some Video and Photo editing, then sure the extra cost might be worth it for the Operating System, but if I was to get one for my primary usage i.e. FSX, gMax, gaming and video editing etc. then I'd essentially be paying over the odds for a swanky looking PC that's more expensive to upgrade.
One example I've seen was a comparison between upgrading a Mac Pro to it's full memory capability, from Apple it was going to cost ~$9000 vs ~$1400 for identical memory from a third party vendor. I don't begrudge other people spending their money on stuff if they want, but I have better uses for mine.
As for better reliability etc. a colleague brought a Mac Book last year to go to see with, it now looks less than prisitine, what with white being a crap colour to keep clean, and various keys don't work. I remember another guy on one of my ships who was missing a number of keys off his less than 12 months old Mac Book. Meanwhile my two year old Toshiba is running fine and looks as good as it did when I got it.
Similarly my iPod touch randomly resets or plays silly buggers far more often than my PC to the extent I had to reset the thing and reload all my music last week.
 
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