Just finished a new 2D panel for the Storch..

[Shessi]

Ha ha!...I thought the same when I came across it, but realised there are no He115 in this condition out there (at the moment), and then read it was a Ju88A4. As you say it was the colour I wanted to show you.

It's strange as this was the Luftwaffe's best torpedo bomber, used from 1939-1943-44 and in the Battle of Britain, a well known ac, and yet there are very few, if any, pics of the inside or instrument panel...only if you have the manual.

Cheers

Shessi

 

[gaucho_59]

So here is the latest effort....

Ha ha!...I thought the same when I came across it, but realised there are no He115 in this condition out there (at the moment), and then read it was a Ju88A4. As you say it was the colour I wanted to show you.

It's strange as this was the Luftwaffe's best torpedo bomber, used from 1939-1943-44 and in the Battle of Britain, a well known ac, and yet there are very few, if any, pics of the inside or instrument panel...only if you have the manual.

Cheers

Shessi

Hope this is in keeping with your suggestions... I am fast approaching the limits of my re-doing skills... lol

 

[gaucho_59]

Ooops.... need to edit ...

Hope this is in keeping with your suggestions... I am fast approaching the limits of my re-doing skills... lol

I forgot to eliminate the windshield area where the nose showed erroneously...
and changed the volume of the handholds...

 

[Shessi]

Great work there G,
The overall colour is much better, the loss of the nose in the windscreen is much better, the bigger yolk is just about right and the stop-watch looks good as well.

And yes you must be fed up with keep going on!

Saying that! (don't laugh), could I ask a couple of minor things.
Would you make the rudder straps and the front observer pad either a dark brown leather or dark grey. These would not have been canvas and it's a bit too greenish/yellow.

And the ammo feed for the nose gun would not be belt-fed but an ammo magazine as below, would mind either removing the ammo belt or replace it with a magazine if possible?

I really appreciate what you've done, I could not do it, and I look forward to putting it with the finished He115...sometime in the future. Thanks.

Cheers

Shessi

 

[gaucho_59]

no problem...

Great work there G,
The overall colour is much better, the loss of the nose in the windscreen is much better, the bigger yolk is just about right and the stop-watch looks good as well.

And yes you must be fed up with keep going on!

Saying that! (don't laugh), could I ask a couple of minor things.
Would you make the rudder straps and the front observer pad either a dark brown leather or dark grey. These would not have been canvas and it's a bit too greenish/yellow.

And the ammo feed for the nose gun would not be belt-fed but an ammo magazine as below, would mind either removing the ammo belt or replace it with a magazine if possible?

I really appreciate what you've done, I could not do it, and I look forward to putting it with the finished He115...sometime in the future. Thanks.

Cheers

Shessi

Apparently, it is an aircraft version of the MG38 OR MG42... can do...
will post the changes on next installment...

 

[gaucho_59]

How's this now?

Great work there G,
The overall colour is much better, the loss of the nose in the windscreen is much better, the bigger yolk is just about right and the stop-watch looks good as well.

And yes you must be fed up with keep going on!

Saying that! (don't laugh), could I ask a couple of minor things.
Would you make the rudder straps and the front observer pad either a dark brown leather or dark grey. These would not have been canvas and it's a bit too greenish/yellow.

And the ammo feed for the nose gun would not be belt-fed but an ammo magazine as below, would mind either removing the ammo belt or replace it with a magazine if possible?

I really appreciate what you've done, I could not do it, and I look forward to putting it with the finished He115...sometime in the future. Thanks.

Cheers

Shessi

Hope this gets closer to what you seek... Must tell you a little secret... I am partially color blind... so sometimes I get confused with colors...
I usually recur to chips to get some colors...

 

[Shessi]

Well G that's on the money for me (like the MG magazine in the nose).

A huge thanks for the all time and effort, as I said before, much appreciated.

And I think I'll fit out the panel with gauges etc, doing something different, and hopefully do it justice!

Is the posted panel picture the best quality for the panel or?

:ernae:

Shessi

 

[gaucho_59]

Right now... it is basically finished...

Well G that's on the money for me (like the MG magazine in the nose).

A huge thanks for the all time and effort, as I said before, much appreciated.

And I think I'll fit out the panel with gauges etc, doing something different, and hopefully do it justice!

Is the posted panel picture the best quality for the panel or?

:ernae:

Shessi

Will add some refinements... you need to tell me the measurements you want to use...
I will have to extrapolate everything to the original... which is larger and high DPI...
then see about the resolution you want to use... for optimal frame rates, etc.
I am pretty happy with the results so far... especially the drum magazines... that was an excellent suggestion...
When you get the VC textures done... we can see about making them match...

 

[gaucho_59]

This about it...

Will add some refinements... you need to tell me the measurements you want to use...
I will have to extrapolate everything to the original... which is larger and high DPI...
then see about the resolution you want to use... for optimal frame rates, etc.
I am pretty happy with the results so far... especially the drum magazines... that was an excellent suggestion...
When you get the VC textures done... we can see about making them match...

This is the last one... at top dpi and colors... Best format will be extended BMP or DDS.. because straight bmp take
a lot of space... and 256 colors does not do justice to the details...
If you know what gauges you want to use... and they have "built-ins" like screws.. I can re-do the textures to eliminate
things like screws... or "dirty" black spots that become transparent... also I can add lenses with reflections to them...
(like reflection of light through the greenhouse posts.. subdued clouds reflected... etc. So send the gauges to me by
email so I can work on them....

 

[Shessi]

Have been messing about with it in the sim, and unfortunately there's going to be a major problem, which is very annoying,,,,grrrrr.

The problem is the high line of the top of the panel, which in the sim means to see anything ahead, the ac has to be basically descending/diving at a great rate. I have tried different sizes and ratios, and either get a good looking panel but no view, a very wide and squashed panel or I moved the panel down to give me a view ahead, which then loses a lot of the lower detail, but is usable.

Here are the pics, 1= your original panel, 2=your panel roughly adjusted to be useable, 3= another He115 panel for comparison.

I don't think there are many options on this, what do you think?

Shessi

 

[gaucho_59]

I don't know whether...

Have been messing about with it in the sim, and unfortunately there's going to be a major problem, which is very annoying,,,,grrrrr.

The problem is the high line of the top of the panel, which in the sim means to see anything ahead, the ac has to be basically descending/diving at a great rate. I have tried different sizes and ratios, and either get a good looking panel but no view, a very wide and squashed panel or I moved the panel down to give me a view ahead, which then loses a lot of the lower detail, but is usable.

Here are the pics, 1= your original panel, 2=your panel roughly adjusted to be useable, 3= another He115 panel for comparison.

I don't think there are many options on this, what do you think?

Shessi

you have much experience flying in the cockpit of fair size birds... Like I think I told you... I flew second seat several times on a C-12 in Viet Nam... (it's Cessna small twin)
and you could see the horizon fairly well... but on big birds like 130s 141s and c-5s... I sat on the flight engineer seat behind the pilot... and really... the horizon in the distance
is barely visible... of course... the pilots can jack up their seats during take off... but basically... yes in level flight not much view... only on descent... and once you are at the
end of the glide path... i.e: just prior to touch down... you don't really see the apron..
P-47 and Corsairs... (tail-draggers of course)... often had a ground crew member sit on the tip of the wing to be the "eyes" of the pilot.
We can add headroom and cut the panel just above its lower edge... like in picture Nr 2...
check pictures of cockpits taken from the seat...and you'll notice that there really isn't much of a forward view... I'll post some photos to give you an idea...
Both of the pics you took in the sim present the view you'd have when you stand up behind the pilot... like a visitor...

 

[gaucho_59]

Here are some illustrative photos...

Have been messing about with it in the sim, and unfortunately there's going to be a major problem, which is very annoying,,,,grrrrr.

The problem is the high line of the top of the panel, which in the sim means to see anything ahead, the ac has to be basically descending/diving at a great rate. I have tried different sizes and ratios, and either get a good looking panel but no view, a very wide and squashed panel or I moved the panel down to give me a view ahead, which then loses a lot of the lower detail, but is usable.

Here are the pics, 1= your original panel, 2=your panel roughly adjusted to be useable, 3= another He115 panel for comparison.

I don't think there are many options on this, what do you think?

Shessi

Here I got some pics that illustrate the point

 

[Shessi]

Hi G,
I have 20 years experience in medium helos and light aircraft but not in medium to fair size fixed wing, but I totally agree with you about what can be viewed forwards from a large-aircraft seat, not that much!

I know we started this process knowing there would be a lot of artistic licence in this, so trying to get reality AND a useable panel is just not going to work, not without a bit of compromise.

You have to remember that the He115 was a medium-sized long-range observation and torpedo bomber and not a long range heavy bomber, with that in mind, the pilot would have to have good all-round visibility and especially close to the water for torpedo dropping and seeing the target.

You can see the construction sets the cockpit canopy high up on the top of the fuselage, so that the pilot and rear gunner/radio op have a good observation platform, more as in a fighter than a bomber. In fact if you look at the Grumman Avenger TBM, the pilot sits poking up out of the cockpit, see pic, to aid the torpedoing concept, as with most torpedo dropping ac.

I've got some pics of different flying He115s, see below, they are not in the taking-off or landing stage, but level flight, and you quite clearly see the pilots are sitting quite high up in the cockpits.

I hate to see a great panel, and all your effort, go to waste, or get butchered about and so it would not look like the real thing, just to get it to work. Maybe the answer is to have a half-way house, i.e. move the panel not quite down to where I put it but much nearer, to make it more usable?

Cheers

Shessi

 

[gaucho_59]

Just hum me a few bars and I..

Hi G,
I have 20 years experience in medium helos and light aircraft but not in medium to fair size fixed wing, but I totally agree with you about what can be viewed forwards from a large-aircraft seat, not that much!

I know we started this process knowing there would be a lot of artistic licence in this, so trying to get reality AND a useable panel is just not going to work, not without a bit of compromise.

You have to remember that the He115 was a medium-sized long-range observation and torpedo bomber and not a long range heavy bomber, with that in mind, the pilot would have to have good all-round visibility and especially close to the water for torpedo dropping and seeing the target.

You can see the construction sets the cockpit canopy high up on the top of the fuselage, so that the pilot and rear gunner/radio op have a good observation platform, more as in a fighter than a bomber. In fact if you look at the Grumman Avenger TBM, the pilot sits poking up out of the cockpit, see pic, to aid the torpedoing concept, as with most torpedo dropping ac.

I've got some pics of different flying He115s, see below, they are not in the taking-off or landing stage, but level flight, and you quite clearly see the pilots are sitting quite high up in the cockpits.

I hate to see a great panel, and all your effort, go to waste, or get butchered about and so it would not look like the real thing, just to get it to work. Maybe the answer is to have a half-way house, i.e. move the panel not quite down to where I put it but much nearer, to make it more usable?



Cheers

Shessi

will play the tune for you... hahaha Make a small sketch of how you wanted to be... and I will adapt the texture to it....
Probably.... like I said before.... increase headroom and cut the panel to just that... the panel bottom edge... or whatever can be
salvaged of the lower portion... no problem at all...

The panel can be made wider and taller also... and show everything.... like more oblong...

 

[gaucho_59]

Like I said in my last bit...

will play the tune for you... hahaha Make a small sketch of how you wanted to be... and I will adapt the texture to it....
Probably.... like I said before.... increase headroom and cut the panel to just that... the panel bottom edge... or whatever can be
salvaged of the lower portion... no problem at all...

The panel can be made wider and taller also... and show everything.... like more oblong...

everything can be done... the canvas is large enough and with sufficient dpi definition that it can be cropped,
enlarged, etc. and support additions...
Here is what it would look like... no problem detailing and resizing as well as putting into perspective
said detailing... can probably support a 1024 x 768 without any appreciable loss of detail...
Let me know what you desire...
Of course this is only a preliminary sketch so to speak....

 

[OleBoy]

Hey Gaucho,

Your 2D panels are amazingly nice.
I don't fly 2D, but if I did yours would be in their proper place if you know what I mean.

Very impressive stuff! :salute:

 

[Shessi]

Works for me! Glad you came up with that one, great work.....

And looks good in the sim and is useable. I made the yolk, pop up, but it doesn't really block everything out if it was permenantly there? Your thoughts on that?

I think this is the way to go, as it's got the great detail, good view and useablility all in one. Means putting a bit of cockpit detailing at the sides, as you say.

To help with the making of the panel could I ask you to replace the white or sky texs background with pure black, and replace any pure black anywhere else on the panel with anything just off pure black. When making a panel 0,0,0 pure black is used for see through bits such as windows etc, so you get that moth eaten effect if it's anywhere else on the panel (see the shadows in the nose and framing issues, the guages will be replaced anyway).

Many thanks and patience

Shessi

 

[gaucho_59]

No problem...

Works for me! Glad you came up with that one, great work.....

And looks good in the sim and is useable. I made the yolk, pop up, but it doesn't really block everything out if it was permenantly there? Your thoughts on that?

I think this is the way to go, as it's got the great detail, good view and useablility all in one. Means putting a bit of cockpit detailing at the sides, as you say.

To help with the making of the panel could I ask you to replace the white or sky texs background with pure black, and replace any pure black anywhere else on the panel with anything just off pure black. When making a panel 0,0,0 pure black is used for see through bits such as windows etc, so you get that moth eaten effect if it's anywhere else on the panel (see the shadows in the nose and framing issues, the guages will be replaced anyway).

Many thanks and patience

Shessi

I will start working on the detailing.... the panel has a black background... you see the way I do things... I start with a black background... first layer... then a layer -usually light blue - so I have good contrast to work out edeges, etc.- and then the cockpit background... another layer with the panel... another layer with the instruments... and however many layers for detaling... shadowing.. shines.. etc. So the panel in the works is usually about 5 or 6 layers...or more
when I finish, I flatten all layers without the black background.. and this renders a jpg to post... the final panel.. I flatten all layers keeping the sky layer out... and you have a panel with a transparent (black) background.. which for use... I usually format as an extended bmp to test on plane... Now since the extended bmps suffer in quality everytime you open them to edit... I do the editing in the 5 or 6 layer original... and replace a flat copy using Wrights dxt program on the panel being edited...
so each time I return it to the sim... it is pristine again... if you open an extended bmp and edit it... there is moiree patterns... loss of detail.. etc. but this way... the panel is returned to the aircraft in pristine condition... so I always keep a PSP layered texture... and put an extended bmp version on the plane in the sim...
Often people like Di Giuli.. are so anxious to try them out from what I post... that they copy the jpg and turn it into a bmp... with poor quality results... when the panel is finished... I will send you a set of textures at high-def... but you should not try to edit them in any way... for they will suffer... to edit them and come with equal quality as the finished product... one has to always go back to the original high def PSP file... make a copy... edit.. and etc.

Now... I think you need to wait for the finalized panel... to be used as a background to work out a panel config... for testing it is ok to do it like you have been doing now with the test textures... to place bezels, etc.
In other words... test all you want... suggest changes and they can be edited into the original... I do that with regular textures... work on the original and make quickie copies to put in the sim... see about fits... midlines.. camo lines, etc.
take a screen shot of the aircraft in flight in different positions... go back to PSP and translate changes into the original... until I am finally decide not much more can be done... and put the finalized extended bmp copy on the sim...

 

[Shessi]

Ha ha! Sorry if I insulted your intelligence, not meant at all. I know you're a pro and have very high standards, it was just that you did ask "Let me know what you desire..." (a dangerous ask!)

I did realise the final product would look much better than me copying and trying it out, it was just to give you an in-sim view, and others reading this post a taste of what's to come.

I'll sit and be patient then.....

Shessi

 

[gaucho_59]

zNo offense...

Ha ha! Sorry if I insulted your intelligence, not meant at all. I know you're a pro and have very high standards, it was just that you did ask "Let me know what you desire..." (a dangerous ask!)

I did realise the final product would look much better than me copying and trying it out, it was just to give you an in-sim view, and others reading this post a taste of what's to come.

I'll sit and be patient then.....

Shessi

No offense taken at all....I just went into the long explanation so you are aware of my methodology...
Some folks are what I think, too impatient, in the quest to "publishing" their work for all to see...and in
the process - however well intentioned to be the first one out the "line" so to speak - they "publish"
the type of work that that suscited that long Aussieman's tlhread about insulting repainters... basically,
a storm in a teacup... In a way... one envisions a certain product... then you make it available...and these
folks sort of chop it up... into an unrecognizable "primitive" version of what you took time to evolve....
Had that experience with detailing textures for a certain aircraft which... in the end... was "published" with crude
versions of what I created... just so the author can put the imprimatur... model, textures, etc. by "Joe Blow"
wasting what I think was an honest effort to produce a nice, clean and sleek product...
You are very patient and methodical... I like that... I did a set of interiors for a certain aircraft that, I think, I am the only one who flies it as such. now..
because the finalized version came out without interiors (just dark shadows) because the author had the integrity of eliminating my textures when he fired me from the project...
So... I commend your patience and good will... I think in the end we can give the community a nicely done effort...


Tschuess....or Cheers, as you say...