SOH Team Project - Grumman Tracker, Trader, Tracer

[p3aewguy]

Just a little Hi... I've been doing some preliminary work to practice on my skinning... thought you might like to see
what I have done so far... it still needs weathering... Do you think it can be up to the high standards you have set?

View attachment 50055

Looks pretty good! One thing, the Tracer didn't have a bomb bay. The left side shows a hinge line that wouldn't be there on the E-1B. Also, the E-1B and C-1A had slightly fatter fuselages and didn't have the bulge behind the cockpit side windows like the S2F did.

Dave

 

[gaucho_59]

No problem...

Looks pretty good! One thing, the Tracer didn't have a bomb bay. The left side shows a hinge line that wouldn't be there on the E-1B. Also, the E-1B and C-1A had slightly fatter fuselages and didn't have the bulge behind the cockpit side windows like the S2F did.

Dave

Thanks for the info... easy enough to correct the bulge and the piano hinge ... I am just trying my hand on it waiting for the real thing to be made available...
As to the fatter fuselage... the mapping so far available is what it is... the model is like that I think... You might tell Milt about that... but I think his modelling
is pretty accurate... (don't know much about this... I am just an illustrator artist...):salute:

 

[fliger747]

Milton some new files adjusted for FS9. Some planes do well in both sims with similar files, this is not one of them. Please do not adjust my files, this is highly un appreciated. One thing affects another, especially do not approach within 10 km with Airwrench.

T

 

[Milton Shupe]

Hiya Milton,



Do you have the exact ratio with which you enlarged the textures? Did a quick test seems to be bit more then 150%.

Regards,

Marcel

[EDIT] Nevemind found it, it's 175% duh. ;-) btw Milton this is a very good improvement in resolution!

[EDIT2] Is it possible to fix fuse1.bmp, the bottom mapping to move 3 pixels to the left (based on 1024 pix) to get it exact alignment with the right and top fuselage?

Also for making repainting more strait forward is it possible to mirror/flip on fuse2.bmp the bottem and upper texture part? This way you get a better alignment as well. See below what i mean.

Marcel, I do see your point but you are asking for a lot for me in this situation. The 4th re-mapping of the fuselage and the 10-12 parts that are mapped with it to accommodate higher resolution required most of a full day and part of another to fix some things. I have also remapped one other aircraft the same way so I have about 3 days in remapping those two units. It is not a painless, quick process. So I ask that you accommodate me on this one.

Meanwhile I just finished up the S2Turbo CDF variant. I remapped the wings, nacelles, tails, and fuselage, another 16 hours of mapping. Higher resolution for the fuselage too but you will have the same issue there.

Milton some new files adjusted for FS9. Some planes do well in both sims with similar files, this is not one of them. Please do not adjust my files, this is highly un appreciated. One thing affects another, especially do not approach within 10 km with Airwrench.

T

Gentleman, we have 5 aircraft variants in progress. I ask that you be patient with all of it while we work through the details or I will consider pulling back everything until done. We cannot have you making modifications to WIP variants and sharing results. It just confuses our efforts and the comments in the thread.

Please feel free to provide feedback and input but we need to know your setup when you make comments. Everyone sees things differently, especially on different platforms. If you provide input or feedback, we need to know what you are testing on, weather conditions (standard day for most flight tests), aircraft configuration when you are talking about takeoff, climb, cruise, descent, approach, etc.

Jacking around with MOI's or anything else is not helpful to our efforts. We do not want you to change and test; we want to know what you experience and in what environment, then we will address the issues the best we can. If when the project is delivered, you help yourself to any changes you like. Right now, this stuff can be experienced and commented on; that's it.

I understand the enthusiasm, but we have our hands full and we need sensitivity to the developers' efforts and time.

The S2F-1 and the C-1A are yet to be done. Let's not sour the dough before the projects are completed.

 

[nigel richards]

View attachment 50064 View attachment 50065 View attachment 50066

:toilet:

 

[lazarus]

Looking terrific Gentlemen! WOW! Nigel, you're onto something there. Don't give up!. I'll have to muck about with some ideas I'm getting from you chaps about a paraflare now.

 

[patful]

I understand the enthusiasm, but we have our hands full and we need sensitivity to the developers' efforts and time.

The S2F-1 and the C-1A are yet to be done. Let's not sour the dough before the projects are completed.

Keep plugging along guys, there's no hurry. It's free , and every ounce of your efforts is greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Pat

 

[p3aewguy]

Thanks for the info... easy enough to correct the bulge and the piano hinge ... I am just trying my hand on it waiting for the real thing to be made available...
As to the fatter fuselage... the mapping so far available is what it is... the model is like that I think... You might tell Milt about that... but I think his modelling
is pretty accurate... (don't know much about this... I am just an illustrator artist...):salute:

Milton had to go back and rework the S2F-3 to thin the fuselage and add the bulges behind the cockpit windows. He used the E-1B as the base to model it and didn't know about this either. If you look at the wire frames (attached) for the S2F you can see the line marking the edge of the bulge. No problems though.

I like your profiles! Do you have a large collection of them or are you starting out?

Dave

 

[gaucho_59]

Thank you... for all the info

Milton had to go back and rework the S2F-3 to thin the fuselage and add the bulges behind the cockpit windows. He used the E-1B as the base to model it and didn't know about this either. If you look at the wire frames (attached) for the S2F you can see the line marking the edge of the bulge. No problems though.

I like your profiles! Do you have a large collection of them or are you starting out?

Dave

I have a large collection of profiles... started doing them back in 2001, I think, there is a large number of them in my site:
http://westwood.fortunecity.com/chanel/132/index.html

which I have not revised in so many years... (I've been travelling a lot... from Italy where I lived since I retired form the US Army,
to Germany, Hawaii, Korea, Germany again... etc. so I didn't put in much "puter" time... but now finally in the US for a while...
I dedicate more time to it... and you can see the progress comparing my present collection to my early ones...
I am planning to redo my site sometime soon...
Had to develop a style, so to speak.... and now I am pretty much where I wanted to be when I started the site
I have literally myriad unfinished profiles to do.. this is a Hellcat I was working on when I got bit by
the Milton's S2 fever
View attachment 50091

I've completed both a nice 2d panel and textures for a redo model I am also working on.... to wit:

View attachment 50092

 

[MaddogK]

Yes, library objects can be attached.

Just reading the SDK again and it repeats "Scenery Only".

Here is the whole spiel indicating that XML XFILE extensions can be used to use the attachpoint feature:

<snip>

Any ideas that would move this effort forward is appreciated so I appreciate your interest and questions. Keep'em coming. Or if you wish to jump in and try some things, I will send you te necessary stuff.

Thanks for the encouragement but as a novice in the presence of masters it's a bit intimidating to throw in with you guys. But I do believe in 'from the mouth of babes' sometimes comes wisdom, or in this case a fresh idea. As I've not once used the attach tool nor apparently read the docs with my glasses on I was a bit unaware of the limitations of the uses of the tool, and how aircraft MDL's differ from terrain. It did occur to me this morning that light is an effect not unlike smoke, and may simply be placeable (and editable) like exhaust smoke without a node in the model. <edit> Only 1 smoke system- busted again. I've never created a custom effect controller, is that possible for aircraft ? I mean are we limited to the predefined tokens listed in the aircraft container SDK ?

I realize now that Nigel is truly on to something, and after I install and read the effectsSDK I may take you up on your offer to send me the materials to help out.

Keep up the GREAT work guys,

 

[mgr]

Hello Tom,

Milton some new files adjusted for FS9. Some planes do well in both sims with similar files, this is not one of them. Please do not adjust my files, this is highly un appreciated. One thing affects another, especially do not approach within 10 km with Airwrench.
T

I'm sorry if I, in my enthusiasm did something to offend you, there was no harm indented. I've removed the modified files from my server.

Do not know what you have against Airwrench but my experience is that the accurate most of the time, and really show the effects of change you make either to the aircraft.cfg and/or air-file. Mind i am modifying flightmodels since the good old FS98 days.

Regards,

Marcel

 

[Milton Shupe]

Hello Tom,



I'm sorry if I, in my enthusiasm did something to offend you, there was no harm indented. I've removed the modified files from my server.

Do not know what you have against Airwrench but my experience is that the accurate most of the time, and really show the effects of change you make either to the aircraft.cfg and/or air-file. Mind i am modifying flightmodels since the good old FS98 days.

Regards,

Marcel

Marcel,

No, you did not offend me in any way. I do appreciate your enthusiasm and all the help. All of you have been super at contributing.

We have a lot of things going on with the team simultaneously and we need to minimize confusion, keep the feedback and input well organized so it will be more beneficial, and not be be confusing the task at hand with comments regarding privately modified files.

Let's keep focused, provide meaningful input and feedback by identifying specifically the aircraft, the conditions, configurations, and your problem or recommendations.

Believe me, we would not be where we are had it not been for all of you doing the research, providing drawings, manuals, reference pictures, input, and feedback along the way, just when needed.

On our part, with so much in progress on 4 fronts, it does get confusing, rework is frustrating, and we have to maintain our sanity, energy levels, and motivation. Keep feedback and input positive and we will try to deliver 6 aircraft that you will hopefully feel part of building, and will enjoy for years to come.

Thanks to all of you for your help, interest, and patience.

For the last two days, I have revisited the S2Turbo military variant and have it about wrapped up.

Meanwhile, I have also take some screenies in gmax of the 4 aircraft for your viewing pleasure.
Javis is providing a pilot and co-pilot soon, and he will then begin work on the S2F-1.
Once I get the pilots on-board, I will begin on the C-1A.

 

[Milton Shupe]

A few more ...

Pics taken in gmax of the 4 aircraft ...

You can get a sense of the many parts. I just noticed the S2Turbo military version has 1150 parts and I know the round engines variants have over 1200 parts each.

 

[nigel richards]

Artwork!

Pics taken in gmax of the 4 aircraft ...You can get a sense of the many parts. I just noticed the S2Turbo military version has 1150 parts and I know the round engines variants have over 1200 parts each.

Sir, may I ask you to please, please retain those views somewhere safe on your HD. When the dust is settled after all the hard work is behind us, I for one would appreciate a couple of those and have them framed as 'line drawings'.

Thankyou.

 

[Maarten -]

What can I say? I'm in awe by what The Stoof Team has achieved so far. Thank you so much for all that great work and patience.

Cheers,
Maarten

 

[Milton Shupe]

What can I say? I'm in awe by what The Stoof Team has achieved so far. Thank you so much for all that great work and patience.

Cheers,
Maarten

Thank you Maarten,we have some really great SOH members helping us get this done, some great expertise here. That we got this much accomplished since the August 1st start date, is a testament to that.

Frankly though, I am looking forward to what Jan will bring to the table with the S2F-1.

 

[nigel richards]

Sound progress update...



Wright R-1820-82WA sounds

Having aquired significant new sound recordings, work on the re-make of these sounds has been pushed forward enough to convice me of the validity in cutting a final version. They are predominantly changes to exterior sounds.

On completion these will be forwarded to Milton.


Garrett TPE331 turbo sound

Good progress is now being made; completion now well within sight.


Question: Can the startup pt1 (pre-ignition) and shutdown sequences be extended by about 7 seconds each, without;

1.) Causing new headaches for Milton?

2.) Gauges or other time consuming side-tracks?

 

[fliger747]

What I have against Airwrench? It is a good tool and Jerry has contributed much to the sim world over the years. However run Airwrench and it changes everything, in ways you do not know about. A lot of things need to be individually handled, such as the engine friction and power curves, the airfoil lift curves and many others. Run Airwrench and everything is changed, everything, using some other assumptions. I ultimatly rely on a lot of calibrated test flying for performance (this takes a long time!) and some 22,000 hours as a pilot from everything to light aircraft on high mountain glaciers, landing Herks on the Arctic Sea Ice, to flying the 747-Dreamlifter to get them to fly like planes.

These things go through a lot of iterations, a lot.

T

 

[nigel richards]

Proof of the pudding is in the eating...

What I have against Airwrench? It is a good tool and Jerry has contributed much to the sim world over the years. However run Airwrench and it changes everything, in ways you do not know about. A lot of things need to be individually handled, such as the engine friction and power curves, the airfoil lift curves and many others. Run Airwrench and everything is changed, everything, using some other assumptions. I ultimatly rely on a lot of calibrated test flying for performance (this takes a long time!) and some 22,000 hours as a pilot from everything to light aircraft on high mountain glaciers, landing Herks on the Arctic Sea Ice, to flying the 747-Dreamlifter to get them to fly like planes.

These things go through a lot of iterations, a lot.

T

You do get them to fly like planes indeed Tom!

Infact it's this most rare combination of Milton's supreme modelling craftsmanship, together with your unmistakable expertise and talent in creating a true flight envelope that provides the community with these truly unsurpassed aircraft.

Your knowledge and expertise is recognizable to anyone fortunate enough to be flying them.

Thankyou Tom.

 

[Milton Shupe]

C-1A Trader

Starting thhe C-1A today. Looking for more cabin interior pictures. Have 3, all different of course.

No hurry, but will need next week sometime. Otherwise will work off these 3 pics from the web.

Thanks