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The EAGLE is out ........

LilSki said:
Is this a modified version of my model? I never gave ANYONE any permission to sell my model in any way shape or form.

I just was messing around a googled my name and this came up. I am a bit upset at the moment.

EDIT: IF it is a new model from scratch that is fine. But if there is any shed of my model (and it looks like it) then we have a problem.
Click to expand...


it is a New Model!
no textures of the FS9 Eagle work on this! it is Layered completely different


Google maybe found these lines in product description and point you to the IRIS model:

August 2005 saw the release of what is now widely regarded as one of the benchmarks for Flight Simulator Aerobatic aircraft in the form of the Long Island Classics Christen Eagle for FS2004.
Now, four years later, and with a gracious nod to both Kevin Lechmanski and Dan Hufford of Long Island Classics


hope that helps :)

BR
Tom
 
I ws with David ( on skype ) when we negotiated the eagle with Frank Christeson along with Josh Pemberton. The Model was supplied by Mr Christenson himself in a raw early 3ds max version which david updated and fleshed out with vc and other corrections to the model itself. I personally created the original Flight model based on Mr Christensons original blue prints before passing the project off due to other real life involvements. At no time did we use anything that belonged to LIC or anything remotely similar. If there is any similarity whatsoever then it stands as a testament to LICs work and dedication to this plane, because WE used a model and data supplied to us by the original creator of the plane, and LIC simply did a great job with their version in comparison.

Pam Brooker

Iris Simulations
Flight model Engineer

OzX Redux
Flight Model Engineer
 
have made my first paintjob not planed for public release at least in this color combination

1_12_10_09_1_36_38.jpeg


BR
Tom
 
You would think I would learn by now not to post when upset, but I did and I apologize.

Dave has asked to speak to me later today and I look forward to speaking with him.

Under further review it does appear to be different model from mine. It had been a while since I even looked at my model so once I loaded it up this morning I noticed it was definitely different. Many don't know this but I too dealt with Frank back when I did my model. So both models most likely came from the exact same 3 view drawings. I still have his drawings and press material in storage. I even have an entire copy of the instructions to construct the canopy as I was hell bent on getting that opening animation to be accurate.

What I am still upset about is the use of my name as well as Dan's and LIC in the press releases. I had no knowledge of this project of any kind. Josh had been hounding me about an Eagle I model for quite some time. He also mentioned the 3DS models he received from Frank and I still have a copy of them that Josh sent to me. but again there was never any mention that there was another group working on the Eagle FSX project. So I was a bit surprised when I saw an FSX Eagle and that it was payware with my name associated with it.

I had planned on getting back into the FS scene this winter as my 3 year restoration of my 79 Firebird is finally complete and I would really like to produce some more freeware. But I guess I don't have to worry about the Eagle anymore. I guess I'll finally finish the Tri/L-16s and then make a new Decathlon.

I have requested that my initial post be edited as I found I cannot edit my post after a certain amount of time.

EDIT: Everyones paints look outstanding BTW!!
 
@ txmmy83 Nice one Tom! But you really ought to do something about the shading of the ribs on the wings. It stands out too white
 
CBris said:
@ txmmy83 Nice one Tom! But you really ought to do something about the shading of the ribs on the wings. It stands out too white
Click to expand...

ok will work on the ribs thanks for the HU

have toned them down a bit test flying now to see the changes :)

BR
Tom
 
Hi LilSki

I loved your Fs9 Eagle - it was one of my favourites. Its a few years now that i used FS9 but I would like to thank you for that fantastic model. :applause:
 
That is Sean D Tucker's "Oracle Challenger"

I worked on a project to develop one of these three years ago, but the publisher failed us all. Looks like you have even picked up a patch out of the textures I was doing.

No... mine were better :kilroy: :engel016: , more detail. That looks only vaguely like a texture of mine in the early stages - before I had the rest of the logos and if it is, then you can only have got it from Cason Farmer or myself.

The three images below are respectively from the vector graphics image, the bitmap and the recompiled dds image from the flying model. Oh, and the last image is the Alpha model in another skin I was working on.

So in short - I know this plane. And to answer your question - I have every single one of the logos on three or four different challengers. All hand drawn as vector graphics. You'll not get any more accurate.
 
LolSki - for what its worth - I love the Fs9 Eagle from LIC - it has kept me from buying the new one....well that and insufficient funds.

But I can rely on the LIC masterwork to tide me over til my bank recognizes me again.

2009-4-18_21-49-4-625.jpg
 
Okay,

I've just spent an hour on Skype with Kevin and have sorted everything out. It seems it was a simple misunderstanding which has now been resolved. :)

My mention of Kevin and Dan in my press releases was intended as providing credit for the fine work and the benchmark they had set in their fantastic FS9 Christen Eagle, which we had aspired to reaching.
 
like no one else have ever done the same, no worries - besides - it lends itself to my theory that for every negative there is a positive and here I get a chance to thank you and the LIC people personally for the outstanding -even ported to FSX- Christen Eagle you made.

Thanks man :kilroy:
 
If you guys have been wondering...



Within the limits of the given model, this is the cockpit of N540ET. The real one has only been posted once at airliners.net so far and I must apologise for the fuss I made when Gajit started, because I was already in touch with the owner. Ken Bowen owns this very highly modified Eagle II. It has the same nose cowling as the Oracle Challenger as flown by Sean Tucker and the wing tips are squared off to the rear with extended ailerons. The insides are close - yes, he really does have an engine turned panel. And yes, it is blue. Guess.

There are still a few fixes I need to do. The red is a little too red. I still have to get used to the changed materials and alphas that I am working with. Also - big nuisance - when you have things like stitching and seams and rib tape that goes over red and blue, the merge effects react totally different, so you have to cut out the bits over the different colours and merge differently. Lots of masking and cutting out involved.

But here's some more views of the beta on its first paint drying flight...



 
Well other than Alphas and Spec maps...I think I found enough time to get the main painting done....

lager2-1.jpg


lager1-1.jpg


lager3.jpg


I still don't think I nailed the Top Wing....But after staring at that one picture for a long time, I just said enough!


Jeff
 
Looks good to me Jeff! It'll be nice to see "that" aircraft fly again after 25 years....even if it is only a virtual flight.:ernae::ernae::medals:
 
kilo delta said:
Looks good to me Jeff! It'll be nice to see "that" aircraft fly again after 25 years....even if it is only a virtual flight.:ernae::ernae::medals:
Click to expand...
I'll do my best to get her ready by tomorrow....I'll PM ya so you can get her first....

Chris....
What are the problems with doing certain planes...Have you ever had someone tell you "Not" to post or upload a specific plane?
I have 2-3 that I'm looking at that have major brand names on them...And don't want to take the time to do them and be no!

Jeff
 
Hi Jeff,

There shouldn't be any problems really, other than copyright and trademark issues. Some aircraft I do know are already licensed out by the owners for creating an FS model. The Challenger is one example as far as I know. I know ORACLE don't mind modellers - specifically aeromodellers - using their paint schemes for radio controlled planes.

Other companies will demand a licensing fee to use their "copyrighted designs" on models (both RC and Sim) and still others simply say no. (One biplane maker even demands several thousand dollars from folk who want to model their plane)

A lot of the problems can arise with trademark rights - A major tyre manufacturer refused my reques to recreate paint on one plane simply because the tyre featured was no longer in production. In another case, a major Swiss watch maker refused any use of their logos without permission - and promptly refused permission on a fictional I had proposed.

From all this you may think I worry too much - it's possible. Just remember all of us who scream and shout and rave about pirates uploading FSX models to their pirate sites - and then ask yourselves if we are any better in "copying" other people's trademarks, designs, work, photographs...

I won't say I am squeaky clean. But I generally try to get into personal touch with the owners/operators of aircraft I paint. In most of those cases I get positive responses - even from airlines in some cases. I do this not so much out of panic about copyrights, but more out of courtesy to the people who put their sweat into a beautiful airplane. I have some very interesting contacts now - and see Banana Bob's photopaint of Patty Wagstaff's Extra - she has endorsed it with here favourable comments and blessings.

Of course, most lawyers would untangle a painter from any hassle if he painted someone's IP work on a sim model. It's a bit like photography - you create an image of something you have seen at an airshow (take photos, draw sketches, paint models) and you show and share these images with friends. It can get tricky when you start making money from their efforts. On that last point, I note that there are people charging for their repaints of major airline's liveries. But that is not for me to worry about.

And one of the biggest benefits from "asking permission" is that the plane owners are just as pleased about seing their planes painted in sim as you will be in making some great new acquaintances. Sometimes it is a right intellectual challenge too, to even find the owners. I have written to aerobatics associations who passed my on to someone else who passed it on again.

I have found another owner's through the FAA aircraft registries (in the case of the last Eagle Skin above) - these are public domain. Actually finding the owners is then the real puzzle. You can easily get the postal addresses of any owner that way. But before I write letters, I try for online contacts first. I found one plane owner because he had endorsed an aviation product on a shop site I browsed to. I aske the shop to pass a message on.

Incidentally, I have it on very reliable and good authority that Frank Christensen is totally happy for any of his Eagles and all the paintschemes to be reproduced. i.e. the eagle feather patterns that you typically see in four and seven colour schemes. Where you can get tied up is in painting trademarks on your paints. Most are good, but some companies will look closely...

So just to firm up my answer to Jeff. From experience there should be no problems. Most owners say yes anyway. My concerns raised here about a couple of potential paints were simply because I know of problems with particular owners / sponsors and I know of projects in progress.
 
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