The Just Flight Spit has appeared on the radar

[bazzar]

Oh that's just the adjustable light dimmer on the reticle. It's been left on in daylight. The beta probably needs a little adjustment to the effect to make it less hard edged. It's controled by a dimmer rheostat close to the gunsight.

 

[Dimus]

I was pleasantly surprised to see that Just Flight is preparing an FSX native version of the Spitfire. I own the FS9 version and I had a lot of fun with it in my FS9 years. I have both the Real Air and the A2A Spits and I must say that they are both excellent but yours is going to add marks that we do not have now and as always with planes like the Spit, the more the merrier.

The picture of the unpainted prototype is what caught my eye. I have been doing some research in the past on the prototype for building a scale model. I wished to depict the first day of the rollout in which the plane seems unpainted. I could not confirm if the plane was bare metal or partly primed. Your version shows it covered with what looks as yellowing aluminum primer. Do you have definite information on this. Some sources claim that it was bare aluminum of various shades but nothing seems definite. I have found the following site dedicated to K5054 and the profile there shows a metal shade:

http://www.k5054.com/

The same is shown on Michael Turner's painting on the same site:

http://www.k5054.com/artwork.html

Any comments on your sources would be appreciated.

Good work again! Looking forward to its release.

 

[peter12213]

Will there be a really late model too like the F.24 of the early 50's? I just really want a late bubble top variant.

 

[bazzar]

The airframe was never finished in bare alloy.

The prototype was "rolled out" finished in yellow green chromate primer, apparently of different shades!, except for the base of the oiltank (red primer) and the engine access panels back to the cockpit which were left in bare aluminium. Ailerons, rudder and elevator were finished in silver dope.The panels were hand-beaten and showed a remarkable amount of rippling and dents. The wings were "strip-plank"skinned. The undercarriage was not covered with doors and the windscreen was a simple plexiglass one-piece affair, in front of a flat top profile canopy. The tail carried a tailskid. Also of note was the angled rudder balance-different to that of production models.

It was not until the time of the Hendon air display that the airframe was finally painted in gloss "Supermarine blue" the exact shade remains unclear but an approximation is a type of grey/sky blue.

It also received undercarriage covers and folding wheel spats which fully covered the gear apertures in the wings. The lower spats were later discarded as they kept clogging up with mud.


Michael Turner's evocative painting is of the prototype wearing this blue coat. The scene is over the Vickers works. The prototype by now had had machine guns fitted in the wings and really, the painting should depict the radio mast also fitted at around this time.

The JF blue prototype, depicts the prototype just prior to the Hendon show. A little later it carried the number 2 on its flanks, for the new types park at Hendon.

The prototype ended its days prior to a crash which destroyed it, painted in the the then new day camouflage scheme introduced by the RAF for it's combat aircraft.

There are many excellent reference works available but the one we use constantly is Morgan and Shacklady's SPITFIRE, a hefty tome covering every Spitfire ever made and a font of knowlege and data.

 

[bazzar]

Will there be a really late model too like the F.24 of the early 50's? I just really want a late bubble top variant.

None planned as yet, we wanted to cover the classic early years, especially in the 70th anniversary year for the Battle of Britain. Also the MkV is coming. We produced the bubble tops for the FS9 packs but we don't have plans for FSX.

 

[Skittles]

If you don't mind me asking, exactly how much higher resolution were you thinking ....?:isadizzy:

It's not so much the resolution in fact mate, it's more just the general style. Something I may change for example include the throttle grip texture, trim wheel texturing, put a different metal texture in the VC etc.

I really like baked textures, and would love to see them implemented (or rather a pseudo version, given that I don't have the original mesh etc). Then again I don't know if any changes would be worth it since I can't change the mapping etc.

It's entirely your perogative of course, and it's more than likely I'd buy the thing anyway. It would just sway me from a 'hmmm probably' to a 'hmmm definitely.'

Cheers.

 

[Dimus]

The airframe was never finished in bare alloy.

The prototype was "rolled out" finished in yellow green chromate primer, apparently of different shades!, except for the base of the oiltank (red primer) and the engine access panels back to the cockpit which were left in bare aluminium. Ailerons, rudder and elevator were finished in silver dope.The panels were hand-beaten and showed a remarkable amount of rippling and dents. The wings were "strip-plank"skinned. The undercarriage was not covered with doors and the windscreen was a simple plexiglass one-piece affair, in front of a flat top profile canopy. The tail carried a tailskid. Also of note was the angled rudder balance-different to that of production models.

It was not until the time of the Hendon air display that the airframe was finally painted in gloss "Supermarine blue" the exact shade remains unclear but an approximation is a type of grey/sky blue.

It also received undercarriage covers and folding wheel spats which fully covered the gear apertures in the wings. The lower spats were later discarded as they kept clogging up with mud.


Michael Turner's evocative painting is of the prototype wearing this blue coat. The scene is over the Vickers works. The prototype by now had had machine guns fitted in the wings and really, the painting should depict the radio mast also fitted at around this time.

The JF blue prototype, depicts the prototype just prior to the Hendon show. A little later it carried the number 2 on its flanks, for the new types park at Hendon.

The prototype ended its days prior to a crash which destroyed it, painted in the the then new day camouflage scheme introduced by the RAF for it's combat aircraft.

There are many excellent reference works available but the one we use constantly is Morgan and Shacklady's SPITFIRE, a hefty tome covering every Spitfire ever made and a font of knowlege and data.

Thanks for quick reply bazzar.

I know about the later blue paint, but I think Turner's painting is showing bare metal shades and not blue paint. The openings for the machine guns were probably there since the beginning as they are shown in the pics of the first rollout included in my first link. The openings seem faired over in later pics of the blue painted prototype.

I have seen the "SPITFIRE" book once in the past in a friend's house but never really read it in depth. Does it describe this prototype painting? I might try to find a copy.

Another profile is shown here:

http://www.spitfiresite.com/reference/camouflage-markings/2008/02/k5054-spitfire-prototype.htm

but of course this is just another web site so obviouly just another opinion

This issue has bugged me several years and I still have not found hard evidence of the truth, only different opinions.

 

[IanHenry]

Bazzer,
Assuming the Spitfire is to the same quality as your Flight 1 P-51 Mustang it’s got to be a winner. The only problem with the P-51 is no one has produced any re-paints
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Regards,
Ian.

 

[SpaceWeevil]

There are many excellent reference works available but the one we use constantly is Morgan and Shacklady's SPITFIRE, a hefty tome covering every Spitfire ever made and a font of knowlege and data.

I agree that if it's facts you want then M&S is the ultimate Spitfire book. The text is a bit dry but it is a peerless reference. For a book that gives a very good feel for the Spitfire with a lot less raw data, I really like Alfred Price's 'The Spitfire Story.' It's well written, the pictures are many and well chosen, and best of all it's small enough to read in the bath.

 

[peter12213]

None planned as yet, we wanted to cover the classic early years, especially in the 70th anniversary year for the Battle of Britain. Also the MkV is coming. We produced the bubble tops for the FS9 packs but we don't have plans for FSX.

Ahh ok no problem its a shame I'll never have one though!

 

[kilo delta]

None planned as yet, we wanted to cover the classic early years, especially in the 70th anniversary year for the Battle of Britain. Also the MkV is coming. We produced the bubble tops for the FS9 packs but we don't have plans for FSX.

Are there any plans for the 2 seater?

 

[bazzar]

Thanks for quick reply bazzar.

I know about the later blue paint, but I think Turner's painting is showing bare metal shades and not blue paint. The openings for the machine guns were probably there since the beginning as they are shown in the pics of the first rollout included in my first link. The openings seem faired over in later pics of the blue painted prototype.

I have seen the "SPITFIRE" book once in the past in a friend's house but never really read it in depth. Does it describe this prototype painting? I might try to find a copy.

Another profile is shown here:

http://www.spitfiresite.com/reference/camouflage-markings/2008/02/k5054-spitfire-prototype.htm

but of course this is just another web site so obviouly just another opinion

This issue has bugged me several years and I still have not found hard evidence of the truth, only different opinions.

No, definitely not first flown with guns. They were added much later and flight tests carried out to assess their effect on dynamics in January 1937. The holes you see in the leading edges of the wings, in some photographs, are the locations for the condensers of an evaporative cooling system that was never fitted. If you look closely, there are six of them and an outer one for pitot probes to be fitted. The port wing has the long probe fitted in the hole. Eventually these became the locations for the gunports of the eight Brownings.Also there are no gun hatches in the strip-planked surfaces of the early prototype wings.

Turner's painting may actually show the original primer finish aft of the cockpit. If you study the painting you will see a greenish tinge to the flanks of the fuselage. He has painted the oiltank but not in the red oxide primer.

In the M&S book there are two very clear photographs (albeit in B/W) of the prototype on roll out showing a distinctly painted rear section to the fuselage

I am surprised that there appears to be no definitive record of the appearance of the prototype on roll out. You would think that with all the meticulous records kept of the period, there would be something on the airframe finish....

 

[bazzar]

Are there any plans for the 2 seater?

No not really. We did the two-seater twice, once for the FS9 packs and once for Historic Flying Limited as a one-off project. We may reconfigure it for FSX one day but no time soon. We've made that one freeware by the way. A few people have also done new paints for it.

 

[bazzar]

It's not so much the resolution in fact mate, it's more just the general style. Something I may change for example include the throttle grip texture, trim wheel texturing, put a different metal texture in the VC etc.

I really like baked textures, and would love to see them implemented (or rather a pseudo version, given that I don't have the original mesh etc). Then again I don't know if any changes would be worth it since I can't change the mapping etc.

It's entirely your perogative of course, and it's more than likely I'd buy the thing anyway. It would just sway me from a 'hmmm probably' to a 'hmmm definitely.'

Cheers.

Understand. I just dislike the baked look as it makes everything look a bit dull. If you look at a real cockpit there is a surprising amount of colour in there. The other thing with texture baking is that the shadows remain, wherever the light source is.

It's all a matter of taste I suppose.

However, to produce a paintkit to include the VC components? How about a release in 2012? ;>)

 

[Javis]

Hi Jan,We have been using Max for quite a while now. It definitely has the beans over GMax but when you think that GMax was a free offering it isn't half bad.

It was the best ever thing that could happen to an honest, dedicated FS aircraft designer !

I haste to say NOT for Louis Sinclair who gave us his amazing FSDS program before we could get our hands on Gmax. He turned FS aircraft design from Hell into Heaven for us ( that is if one had been struggling away with MS A&SD and the few AF iterations after that.. :d ) I still bought FSDS2 just to support him because by then i was totally spoiled by Gmax.

Yes renders are fun. I love doing them but I wish some people, (I'm not getting into this!) would stop showing them as "WIP"shots when the final result could never match the resolution.It only leads to disappointment when the end user gets the product.

Yes, i know what you're saying but i think those 'clay renders' are alright. They are such fun to look at and yet everyone can see that this is not what we're gonna get with the final result. An expensive gourmet dinner for the eyes of a digital modeler and i suppose for any non digital modeler as well. Myself i can't stop drooling over these things, the more so now that i can make 'em myself...

I don't think early wartime Spitfires were ever gloss Jan. Not from pics and examples I have seen, The best one could have achieved would have been a slightly silk finish which is actually what we have with the specular and reflection filters set up. Just enough to show off the bump-mapping.Gloss was used in some high altitude photo-recon versions for more airspeed.

Roger that, Bazz. I did read though that pilots did love the extra 7/8 mph they got out of a glossy painted surface. Also groundcrews preferred glossy finish over matt because of maintenance. Besides, a bit of gloss does make for a pretty picture, doesn't it :

Now that we finally got full control over specular lighting in FSX i'd say let's make good use of that. We don't have to worry about any hostile Me109's to show up at our six, do we.. :d

But you're right, as always you can't please everyone, should you decide for more shine on your Spit models, which i'd welcome a lot, other simmers might come and haunt you for less shine so go with what you think is best, Bazz, my credit card is warmed up no matter matt or gloss or anything in between. Just bring 'em on,mate, you're doing a fine job ! :ernae:

Cheers,
Jan

 

[bazzar]

Thanks Jan,

I believe the reason for gloss on restored examples is that the costs in maintaining the airframe are drastically reduced both in time and money. Less cleaning means more time in the air which for display owners means more money....

 

[Javis]

I believe the reason for gloss on restored examples is that the costs in maintaining the airframe are drastically reduced both in time and money. Less cleaning means more time in the air which for display owners means more money....

That's absolutely true, Bazz.

So, any chance for a restored Mk1 in the package ? Would fit the beautiful clean cockpit perfectly... ( please ignore, i'm just nagging... , being the quintessential dutchy wanting to sit first class for a dime.. Do LOVE Spitfires so much.. t'is not really a bad idea, is it ?... :d )

Any news re the soundsuite you can give us, Bazz ?

Cheers,
Jan

 

[bazzar]

Yep we've got a brand new sound set for these. We now have a lovely "flypast" effect that I think people are going to like that includes the V12 whine and full Merlin-on-song repertoire for all speeds. We've kept the slightly oscillating sound on cruise from the old pack as I liked that so much. You really do need to turn up those Bose's for this one!

 

[Dimus]

No, definitely not first flown with guns. They were added much later and flight tests carried out to assess their effect on dynamics in January 1937. The holes you see in the leading edges of the wings, in some photographs, are the locations for the condensers of an evaporative cooling system that was never fitted. If you look closely, there are six of them and an outer one for pitot probes to be fitted. The port wing has the long probe fitted in the hole. Eventually these became the locations for the gunports of the eight Brownings.Also there are no gun hatches in the strip-planked surfaces of the early prototype wings.

Turner's painting may actually show the original primer finish aft of the cockpit. If you study the painting you will see a greenish tinge to the flanks of the fuselage. He has painted the oiltank but not in the red oxide primer.

In the M&S book there are two very clear photographs (albeit in B/W) of the prototype on roll out showing a distinctly painted rear section to the fuselage

I am surprised that there appears to be no definitive record of the appearance of the prototype on roll out. You would think that with all the meticulous records kept of the period, there would be something on the airframe finish....

Yes the painting does have a greenish tint on the fuselage sides but the wings are clearly unpainted. As for the guns, there were certainly no guns fitted in the prototype, just the openings. I did not know about the evaporative system, thanks for that!

I have seen all the b&w pictures of the prototype, the fuselage certainly does look matt and not shiny but so does the cowling, although lighter.

I am amazed by this lack of hard evidence on the prototype of the most iconic british aircraft. This so un-British!

Looking forward to your finished work.

 

[stiz]

I am surprised that there appears to be no definitive record of the appearance of the prototype on roll out. You would think that with all the meticulous records kept of the period, there would be something on the airframe finish....

meticulous records where kept for only certain things ... early war bombers are a fine example :mixedsmi: