Virtavia E-2C Released

[StormILM]

One thing I do not and never will, understand is why people get so hot under the collar over what is somebody else's private business decision. If a game maker bought the exclusive rights for this product say for $500,000 would that be a "bad"move? For heaven's sake people just chill. If you don't want to play the game on Steam, fine, don't.

The crap we received from people over the Aztec was to be seen to be believed. The dust settled and all is now normal again. Apparently we were going to go out of business - "a suicidal business decision" was one comment.We actually increased our brand-awareness by a considerable margin.

As far as I understand from our experience, licensing will be the reason for not having liveries. The bigger you get as a business the larger a target you become for litigious lawyers holed up in corporate towers. That includes the armed forces. Trust me, we know.

You're right, I admit I felt and still to some degree feel stumped over the decision made on this model but it is what it is, their decision and cooler heads will prevail, life will move on in this hobby. There's plenty of new content coming out over more than one sim platform to keep a wide variety of user tastes happy for the foreseeable future. We have a lot of options on what to buy or not buy.

 

[Daube]

This "Steam Exclusive" thing sounds like complete trash to me.
If they want it to be sold on Steam only, then fine, I can understand that, no problems.
But that DRM crap preventing to transfer the model on other sims is completely stupid. Saying "not supported on P3D or FSX-A, only supported on FSX Steam" would have been sufficient, and us simmers would have been able to use it on the other sims (without being able to complain in case of bugs, because not supported).
DRM sucks. Especially in the FS world.

 

[tommieboy]

DRM in FSX Steam.......I'll pass on that. I guess I'll run my boxed FSX until my next HD crash (prabably this year) and call it a day. I picked up a used Samsung tablet in anticipation of the demise of my tower unit......

Tommy

 

[StormILM]

They gave me refunds on both FSX-S and the E-2 but after going through this, I am leery about going this route again (DTG & Steam).

 

[TARPSBird]

I also got "buyer's remorse" and requested a refund and they approved it real quick, already got confirming emails from them and PayPal.

 

[pilto von pilto]

I also got "buyer's remorse" and requested a refund and they approved it real quick, already got confirming emails from them and PayPal.

Interesting. Let me say from the outset that my response isnt directed at TARPSbird only but he did raise an issue that is pervading other developments and games on steam.

Is buyers remorse a reason to request a refund? There is another game called firewatch on steam which is excellent and immersive and cheap but can be finished in under 2 hours if you go hell for leather. There was a feeling that you could buy the gam,e finish it then ask for your money back. This was countered by the developer saying that you arent supporting the developer in any way with those actions and that if you enjoyed the game, you should pay for the game. Plus there is a small problem about the "reputation" an addon/game gets if people do this regarding refunds. EG is the addon so bad that people are asking for refunds or is it a case of " oh I have just put some cash down and flown it enjoyed it but now I am sitting here realising that I spent some money I shouldnt have or could have spent else where".

At the end of the day you arent paying for an addon. You arent paying for the pixels/polygons/sounds etc. You are paying for the expertise/time/effort of the developer. When you ask for a refund based on buyers remorse this hurts the developer, the add-on and future developments. And because some people might construe this differently Let me reiterate the above in point form.

1. Not aimed at Tarpsbird , he did bring up an interesting point however.
2. I believe that buyers remorse isnt a reason to ask for a refund.
3. Asking for refunds can/does negatively impact a development ( rightly or wrongly) .
4. You arent paying for a product as such, you are paying for a developers time/effort/skills.
5. the point about hurting developers or addons and future developments isnt a threat it is purely an observation.
6. Sorry for the point form list, but my comments have in the past been very badly misconstrued.

 

[glh]

Reading this thread just reconfirms my policy to never be first or even tenth to buy an add-on and peruse the user reviews.

 

[mal998]

Well, how the reversed ailerons got past us is a mystery alright. Or maybe it was just the rush put on us and not enough sets of eyes looking at the product. Or maybe we put too much trust in the DTG test team (if there is one?). Sad truth is I just get paid to make'em fly or should I say try to make'em fly. Do I like planes without any decals? Hell no! Do I like rediculous last minute deadlines uh, uh. Do I like being involved in putting out a long-awaited type that lots of folks can't buy, uh no not really. But sometimes that shiny object that the big boys dangle in front of ya just clouds your vision with dreams of financial independence.

Did the ailerons get fixed? Of course they did. Did they get missed? Yep. Did the Rotodome get fixed? Yep. Did our latest moonshot and rocket retrieval go ok? Not so much. Geez after all these years you would think that most everybody here with the exception of some newbees would understand how the game is played and yet....

So, I guess I'll just go back to work on the next little 50s/60s project and hope it all turns out OK in the end. I have a feeling it will.

 

[Willy]

Interesting stuff here as I've been flying FSX-SE for over a year now with few to no issues. Then again, I don't got through Steam to get my add ons either. My take on those has been, nice enough price, but you don't get much for it either.

It wasn't until I got this comp that I had something that would run FSX. And then I couldn't find a new boxed set of any of the later versions that wasn't way overpriced. So, I went with SE and haven't regretted that purchase at all. Like I said, runs fine and the only issues have been from something that I've done.

 

[Corvette99]

Well, how the reversed ailerons got past us is a mystery alright. Or maybe it was just the rush put on us and not enough sets of eyes looking at the product. Or maybe we put too much trust in the DTG test team (if there is one?). Sad truth is I just get paid to make'em fly or should I say try to make'em fly. Do I like planes without any decals? Hell no! Do I like rediculous last minute deadlines uh, uh. Do I like being involved in putting out a long-awaited type that lots of folks can't buy, uh no not really. But sometimes that shiny object that the big boys dangle in front of ya just clouds your vision with dreams of financial independence.

Did the ailerons get fixed? Of course they did. Did they get missed? Yep. Did the Rotodome get fixed? Yep. Did our latest moonshot and rocket retrieval go ok? Not so much. Geez after all these years you would think that most everybody here with the exception of some newbees would understand how the game is played and yet....

So, I guess I'll just go back to work on the next little 50s/60s project and hope it all turns out OK in the end. I have a feeling it will.

How will the fix file be distributed ?

 

[Mickey D]

It will update automatically when you log on to Steam. At least that's how TS2016 updates.

 

[mal998]

"How will the fix file be distributed?"

Don't know. That will be up to DTG. As I said, I'm totally removed from the business aspects of dealing with them. Point is we made the fixes right away. What they do with those fixes and how quickly they move is up to them.

 

[Corvette99]

"How will the fix file be distributed?"

Don't know. That will be up to DTG. As I said, I'm totally removed from the business aspects of dealing with them. Point is we made the fixes right away. What they do with those fixes and how quickly they move is up to them.

Thanks for your work . Hope they act in a timely manner .

 

[flaviossa]

DTG is know about their lazyness in releasing SP for their product line. Look what is happening with another product "Feelthere Tower!3D Steam Version" witch is released under DTG care. The fix is on their hands more than 10 days by now (Following what is said by the developer), and nothing is released to the public. Expect some waiting time ...

 

[airattackimages]

Interesting. Let me say from the outset that my response isnt directed at TARPSbird only but he did raise an issue that is pervading other developments and games on steam.

Is buyers remorse a reason to request a refund? There is another game called firewatch on steam which is excellent and immersive and cheap but can be finished in under 2 hours if you go hell for leather. There was a feeling that you could buy the gam,e finish it then ask for your money back. This was countered by the developer saying that you arent supporting the developer in any way with those actions and that if you enjoyed the game, you should pay for the game. Plus there is a small problem about the "reputation" an addon/game gets if people do this regarding refunds. EG is the addon so bad that people are asking for refunds or is it a case of " oh I have just put some cash down and flown it enjoyed it but now I am sitting here realising that I spent some money I shouldnt have or could have spent else where".

At the end of the day you arent paying for an addon. You arent paying for the pixels/polygons/sounds etc. You are paying for the expertise/time/effort of the developer. When you ask for a refund based on buyers remorse this hurts the developer, the add-on and future developments. And because some people might construe this differently Let me reiterate the above in point form.

1. Not aimed at Tarpsbird , he did bring up an interesting point however.
2. I believe that buyers remorse isnt a reason to ask for a refund.
3. Asking for refunds can/does negatively impact a development ( rightly or wrongly) .
4. You arent paying for a product as such, you are paying for a developers time/effort/skills.
5. the point about hurting developers or addons and future developments isnt a threat it is purely an observation.
6. Sorry for the point form list, but my comments have in the past been very badly misconstrued.

That's a silly answer. If a product isn't up to snuff, that isn't "buyers remorse". We aren't given any insight in how flawed a flight simulator addon is before buying. Hell, if I had to buy a brand new $55,000 Corvette without the benefit of a test drive and it turns out the wheels steered in the opposite direction -- you wouldn't catch me feeling bad for how many hours the engineers in Michigan spent on it.

Also, Groom Lake Simulations has discovered that the textures are mirrored, making US Navy textures next to impossible.

And as for the "why don't you just shut up and get FSX SE" sentiment some are voicing, there are a couple reasons. One, I have boxed, and no reason to buy the same simulation in a different format. Two, as someone that used Steam in the past, I'm not a fan of giving a third party entity full time access to my computer through a connection that is always open, sending and receiving information. Cyber threats are constantly taking down corporations that are far more secure and protected than Steam.

 

[StormILM]

I agree with the above sentiments and generally feel this is a closed case. I want to go on record as saying, obviously this model hasn't gone the way us users nor the original developer would have liked. Our disappointment is mutual, not apart. I still enjoy flying my AJ Savage frequently as it is a unique and satisfying model to use in the sim. Hopefully we'll be seeing the next model before long and enjoy it as well.

 

[pilto von pilto]

That's a silly answer. If a product isn't up to snuff, that isn't "buyers remorse". We aren't given any insight in how flawed a flight simulator addon is before buying. Hell, if I had to buy a brand new $55,000 Corvette without the benefit of a test drive and it turns out the wheels steered in the opposite direction -- you wouldn't catch me feeling bad for how many hours the engineers in Michigan spent on it.

Also, Groom Lake Simulations has discovered that the textures are mirrored, making US Navy textures next to impossible.

And as for the "why don't you just shut up and get FSX SE" sentiment some are voicing, there are a couple reasons. One, I have boxed, and no reason to buy the same simulation in a different format. Two, as someone that used Steam in the past, I'm not a fan of giving a third party entity full time access to my computer through a connection that is always open, sending and receiving information. Cyber threats are constantly taking down corporations that are far more secure and protected than Steam.

See ? Misconstrued.

I said "Buyers remorse " is not a reason for a refund. So I'll use your car analogy if I may. Lets take the 55,000 corvette. You take it out , it works as described. The grin on your face is so wide you could audition for Joker. EVerything is perfect. You buy the car. Then 2 days or even a week later you have buyers remorse and want a refund. There isnt anything wrong with the car. The engineers in michigan did their jobs admirably. But for whatever reason you now feel that it was a purchase that you shouldnt have ( not got permission, or a stretch on funds, the honeymoon period is over ) made. This is not the fault of the car manufacturer. It isnt the fault of chevrolet. It is not a reason for a refund.

That said there are valid reasons for a refund. So point form again.

1. I said buyers remorse is not a reason for a refund.
2. I offered no opinion on what should constitute a refund.

Lastly.
Quite willing to accept that buyers remorse means something different in america or the rest of the world. Here in aus it means the person is having second thoughts AFTER buying the product.

 

[TARPSBird]

My choice of words in my refund post has kicked up the conversation here a bit.
I used the term "buyer's remorse" to simply mean I regretted buying the plane. Specifically, my regrets were that the ailerons were reversed and the radome didn't rotate. I was originally willing to live with both of those shortfalls, then I reconsidered. My purchase was within Steam's parameters for granting a refund so I requested one and it was approved. Nothing against DTG, except I think the aileron glitch should have been caught and (just my opinion) the revolving radome is an essential animation feature on a E-2C that should have been included. Had they disapproved my refund I would have sucked it up, flown the plane, and hoped for an update that at least fixed the ailerons, and maybe some third-party USN paint jobs. For now I'll use Milton's E-1B "Willy Fudd" for my AEW support.

 

[jeansy]

My choice of words in my refund post has kicked up the conversation here a bit.
I used the term "buyer's remorse" to simply mean I regretted buying the plane. Specifically, my regrets were that the ailerons were reversed and the radome didn't rotate. I was originally willing to live with both of those shortfalls, then I reconsidered. My purchase was within Steam's parameters for granting a refund so I requested one and it was approved. Nothing against DTG, except I think the aileron glitch should have been caught and (just my opinion) the revolving radome is an essential animation feature on a E-2C that should have been included. Had they disapproved my refund I would have sucked it up, flown the plane, and hoped for an update that at least fixed the ailerons, and maybe some third-party USN paint jobs. For now I'll use Milton's E-1B "Willy Fudd" for my AEW support.

"buyers remorse" can mean anything you want it to be. dont feel bad that you might of hurt someones feelings, its your money and your expectations.

 

[airattackimages]

I said "Buyers remorse " is not a reason for a refund. So I'll use your car analogy if I may. Lets take the 55,000 corvette. You take it out , it works as described. The grin on your face is so wide you could audition for Joker. EVerything is perfect. You buy the car. Then 2 days or even a week later you have buyers remorse and want a refund.not a reason for a refund.

Too bad that's not what's happening.