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  • Please see the most recent updates in the "Where did the .com name go?" thread. Posts number 16 and 17.

    Post 16 Update

    Post 17 Warning

Warbirdsim P-51D-5-NA Little Friends II OUT NOW! (Pay-ware)

You are right Jan, it is a K model. The CAC Mustangs had the serials A68-1 to A68-200. Any models above -200 were North American. As for the roundels on the wings I wasn't sure until I looked at it in the sim. As I say it is still a WIP and things still need adjusting, even the fonts.
 
From the Simmers Paintshop site that Jan's pointed you to, RAF 45D 851ATH looks about right Pat, except that the 5 needs alteration. The font on the others in the flight looks very different though.

Taff/Jan - I must say I could have sworn the upper surfaces of the wings on all these 361st birds were initially painted a shade of olive drab/green before the invasion stripes were applied, and that subsequently the stripes were crudely overpainted with green paint. It certainly looks that way on the 'Bottisham Four' images. But on closer examination, it may well be that the overpaint only went from the wing root panelling to the outboard edge of the stripes on Sky Bouncer and Suzy G. Not sure. 'Ferocious Frankie' certainly had just the stripes overpainted though - I have a b/w photo in an old book showing the wings very clearly.

View attachment 54140

Anyone else any thoughts?

DaveQ
 
here you go:

Suzy G: just the stripes I think, and bare metal tips, and a white/silver outline to the 'H':
FB_Daydreams_9.jpg


E2-S: the whole wing, with a shiny outline to the roundel:
FB_Daydreams_6.jpg


Sky Bouncer: just the stripes and bare metal/silver painted wing tips:
e2-a2.jpg
 
Jan/Dave,

Thanks for the feedback/guidance, I think I'll go with just the stripes being over-painted in OD. Jan, rest assured the stripes on the tailplane and hint of such on the rudder will be there when finished :icon_lol:

Taff

here you go:

Suzy G: just the stripes I think, and bare metal tips, and a white/silver outline to the 'H':
FB_Daydreams_9.jpg


E2-S: the whole wing, with a shiny outline to the roundel:
FB_Daydreams_6.jpg


Sky Bouncer: just the stripes and bare metal/silver painted wing tips:
e2-a2.jpg
 
"Fool's Paradise IV"

I had plans at one time to reproduce this scheme, so I have done a bit of research on it already. The nose color and color of the nose art typography, was very likely to have simply been flat black. The reason being, is that at the time, the noses of all Mustangs were painted black (at the same time the black bands were added to the wings and tails - which was at depot level, where the aircraft received their final servicing and checks before being flown to their assigned units), for quick identification purposes. Once assigned to and stationed with a group, the nose was over-painted with the color(s) of the individual group, by the group itself. When the black paint was applied to the nose (at depot-level, before individual assignment), there was also a strict procedure that was adhered to, in which the stencils that were over-painted, were re-applied in white (and differing in wording from the original factory stencils). Once the individual group colors were applied, these stencils too were over-painted/lost. This other photo of "Fool's Paradise IV" that exists, clearly shows those very stencils, applied at depot level, still remaining, clearly illustrating that the paint on the nose still remains the same black-identification paint applied from depot-level. Depictions of other aircraft within the 363rd FG, from the same time period, also show the noses simply remaining black.

363rdfg.jpg


The 20th FG ("Glengary Guy" for example) utilized the black-painted nose from the depot for the basis of the nose-markings/paint on their aircraft as well, with those white stencils, applied at depot level, remaining too (as can be seen on the depiction of "Glengary Guy" within Little Friends II).

Regarding invasions stripes - you have to understand that just a few weeks after June 6th, there was actually an order (thus it had to be adhered to), that required the invasion stripes to be removed from the top surfaces of all aircraft that had them fully applied. There were only to be stripes as seen if looking up at the aircraft from the ground (these no longer being 'invasion stripes'). Some worked with paint-remover to get rid of the stripes from the upper-surfaces, but this didn't bode well for the finish on the wings (which had layers of putty and paint already, from the factory - there was actually a very stringent outline for how to properly repair the finish of the wings, if paint-remover was used on the wings, as provided by North American Aviation). The easiest thing was just to paint over them, with whatever paint could be found, which was usually either USAAF Olive Drab, or RAF Dark Green (the thinking being, that these were still considered to be the typical upper-surface colors of the time, despite all Mustangs coming off the assembly line in silver/bare-finish). Based on the best photo-view of the aircraft, it clearly had a coat of some form of "camouflage green" carefully applied over the invasion stripes on the fuselage. With the tonal-differences as seen on the wing fillets and flap, I would also venture to say that the same paint was used to paint over the invasion stripes on the tops of the wings, from just in-board of the out-board side of the flaps (furthest edge of the invasion stripes) all the way to, and onto, the wing-to-fuselage fillets. There was likely only one quick coating applied, as the invasion stripes can still be seen through the OD/Green paint.
 
ah, I did not know that pic, but your right John, those stencils point to black.
I wonder how long they continued with these black noses?
Don't you just love this kind of research?
 
John, Jan, Dave etc.

Thanks for the info. Shame I didn't read it until I came to post some updated screenshots - doh! Shouldn't be hard to implement the changes you've identified. Anyway, here are the latest screenshots. Please bear in mind it's still very much a WIP but it's getting there, slowly but surely :icon_lol:

Regards

Taff
 
Hi everyone. I uploaded 'Angels' last night and 'Man O' War' is coming soon. Thanks.

Very nice work indeed. I have already downloaded "Angels Playmate" and I'm looking forward to "Man O War"

Taff

Latest WIP on Fool's Paradise IV - off to bed now, feel sleepy :sleep:
 
From the Simmers Paintshop site that Jan's pointed you to, RAF 45D 851ATH looks about right Pat, except that the 5 needs alteration. The font on the others in the flight looks very different though.

DaveQ

Dave, I got that font but for some reason the zip file would not open. Downloaded it again yesterday and it worked fine. During WWII the RAAF had a lot of hand painted numbers and codes as a lot of the time they were painted on in the field. The font you reccomended looks pretty close so for the sake of my aging eyes and sanity I am going to choose to use a little 'painter's licence' here as when you look at other photos the fonts seem different. I don't know what others think but I feel the difference is so small it is better left alone as I am not skilled enough to go changing fonts at the moment.

Also thanks to some help from my son I have managed to locate a very rare book called "Mustangs of the RAAF and RNZAF". I oringinally had a copy of this book when I was living in Sydney 35 years ago and when I moved to Lithgow 30 years ago I discovered the removalists had left a box of book behind containing a lot of my aviation books. I rushed back to get the box but you guessed it, it had disappeared and the real estate agent denied any knowledge of it.
 
Overpainting Invasion Stripes

Thanks to everyone - I will now hurry away and revise a couple of paints...!:kilroy:

DaveQ
 
..and I noticed that a few of my paints had disappeared in the server move on OZx, but they have been re-uploaded.
 
I thought the download links seemed familiar. Started downloading them but paused each one to keep my pooter up to speed as my d/l is only about 80KB a second. Now that I know this mate I can cancel them.
 
I have the original WBS P51B (Fighter Leader) and really like it, so thinking about the 'D'.

I really don't like the 'pristine' panel though. Are there any other worn textures for the later releases?
 
Dougal, how much specific dislike do you have in the current wear of the panel? I ask just for the purpose of exactly how un-happy/how un-impressed you may be with the current state of the panel weathering? As much as a few people wanted me to really tear into the instrument panel, there is not a single photo of a period or modern Mustang cockpit, with an instrument panel any more weathered than I have it (despite the rest of the cockpit being weathered to the same degree as I have depicted). There seems to exist, in some, a sub-conscious feeling that the instrument panel should be covered in paint chips, all around the gages, etc., where as that simply wouldn't be the case. It is something that is starting to be criticized in the plastic modeling forums too, for the fact that many plastic modelers tend to want to weather the instrument panels (and other aspects of the aircraft), and have continued to, far beyond what they ever really were. Whether it be for "Little Friends" or "Little Friends II", the following assortment of photos (of numerous different production models of the P-51D - and P-51B), all taken during and just within a year following WWII, or of preserved/un-touched examples, were amongst just some of the ones used as guides to weather the cockpits appropriately, with the idea being that no weathering would be depicted that wasn't actually present. In comparison with many other "big name FS warbird productions", I am quite proud of just how much, and how accurate, the weathering is in the cockpits of the "Little Friends" and "Little Friends II" productions, with all of the same original wear-patterns, and none of it simply imagined.

These show some one-off in-field mods to the panels:

199599_172706972781932_120987634620533_423014_7655683_n.jpg


InsideDadShip3.jpg


This photo was actually taken on Iwo Jima, from within one of the VLR Mustangs based on the island.

P51DPlt7thAF-1.jpg


J-2002cockpit_a-2.jpg


J-2065Cockpit_a.jpg


P-51B43-24876LtHodgesMIA-1.jpg


P-51D44-14340Cockpit.jpg


A wonderful look at a preserved example in the Netherlands, which was assigned to the 78th FG at the end of the war, before being sent to the RNAF just after the end of WWII (photo credit: Huub Vink)
All original finishes and period wear intact.

Panel_full-size-1.jpg
 
Many times, Ebay can be your friend too. Just for one example, here are a couple of sets of original, un-restored floor-panels from Commonwealth P-51D's - showing the non-slide black painted plywood panels, riveted to the metal floor panels, with original wear (note the two different finishes between the left and right floorboards, in each set, despite the fact that each pair is from a same Mustang).

P-51_Cockpit_Floor_01.jpg


P51Floor002.jpg
 
Now, for comparison with the above, here are screenshots again, of some of the various cockpits in "Little Friends" and "Little Friends II".

Image4.jpg


Image11.jpg


Image7.jpg


compa_1.jpg
 
I know some probably might actually prefer even if the cockpit were to look something like this (we all know of a few warbird products that do sort of strive for this look), though this aircraft has been sitting outside, open to the elements, for the last 40+ years. P-51D's, the earliest of which enterred service in very late May/early June of 1944, would only ever have as much as 'several months' of time on them, at most. I'm not realling aiming this post, or a lot of the ones above, at Dougal's post, but aiming at just in-general, the various thoughts/feelings that may exist on the subject of cockpit weathering as a whole, and to illustrate some of the research that was undertaken, in order to arrive at what was produced.

P-51D-25Unrestored.jpg
 
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