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The Staff of SOH
Aeroplane Heaven C-47/DC-3 is out!
- Thread starter jankees
- Start date
cavaricooper
SOH-CM-2023
Yo-Yo- it's v1.1 in V4.5 HF3
Alan- I started her with cowls open, tanks on mains, throttle cracked, mixture to Auto-Rich (i'm too incompetent to fiddle with the mixture levers and latches during) and Boost Pump on. Starter energized and meshed. After 12 blades I flipped the Magneto and gave her bursts of prime. She settled in nicely. I hope to spend time with the manual this weekend.
Baz- I will have a go at the settings and will fiddle to see what works best for me.
Ta- C
Alan- I started her with cowls open, tanks on mains, throttle cracked, mixture to Auto-Rich (i'm too incompetent to fiddle with the mixture levers and latches during) and Boost Pump on. Starter energized and meshed. After 12 blades I flipped the Magneto and gave her bursts of prime. She settled in nicely. I hope to spend time with the manual this weekend.
Baz- I will have a go at the settings and will fiddle to see what works best for me.
Ta- C
YoYo
SOH-CM-2023
Hmm I asked because I see no improvement in the main wheel still, maybe this angle, I dont know.
For 1.0 it was bug like this:
It was on list of improvements. I dont have 1.1 still... PCAviator wrrr....
.On your screen it looks strange still, this bracket is very short ine real life and in flight it is in straight line only (without weight).
Here looks like too big and too too deeply embedded. Maybe its your screen only, dont know so sorry to write it but is visible and main gear is a very characteristic part of Dakota.
Alan_A
Charter Member
@Carl and @Baz - thanks to both of you for your suggestions.
I had some time this afternoon and was able to try about two dozen engine starts. The result is that I was able to start the left engine once, and the right engine once, but not both at the same time. The only procedural difference in the successful starts is that I think I moved the mag switches faster. But that was just my impression and when I tried to replicate it deliberately, I couldn't get a start.
Additional information - both successful starts happened after I loaded the aircraft on top of the default P3D Piper Cub with engines running, and then shut down the DC-3 manually. I wasn't able to get a successful start when loading the DC-3 directly into the sim, or when loading over the default F-22, or when using the SHIFT+1 cold-and-dark switch.
Both of the successful starts were on battery - neither was on the GPU. Throttle on the successful starts was set right at 15 percent, according to the tooltips.
It seems clear that manual starts are possible but on my system they're very difficult to achieve, and that makes me wonder what's going on in settings.
I've had two similar experiences in the past - one with the Flight Replicas DC-4 and one with the PMDG DC-6. In both cases, the issue was with how the fuel system was initializing when the aircraft was first loaded. In the case of the DC-4, the solution was to load the default Cub with engines running, then switch to the DC-4 and shut down by cutting off mixtures. In the case of the DC-6, I loaded directly but had to switch from a cold-and-dark default flight to the standard default flight with engines running (that's what I've used for my default flight ever since, and what I'm using now). In the case of the DC-6, I also created a P3D profile without hardware mixture levers assigned, to avoid creating conflict. I did the same with the DC-3 but it didn't make any difference.
I'm left wondering whether Wothan's observations about the coding of the mags might be a factor.
An additional observation - when the DC-3 loads with engines running, the mixture levers are in cutoff and the fuel tank selectors are set to off. That also makes me wonder how the fuel system is being loaded and whether that might be a factor.
A probably unrelated observation - only the right engine produces a cranking sound when mesh is selected. The left engine is silent throughout the mesh and start sequence.
@Baz - about when to set the mag switches - your own revised manual calls for mag on before start and mesh, both in the startup procedure on page 20 and the checklist on page 36. That was changed in the 1.1 version of the manual - the 1.0 version called for mags off before start and mesh, as per your post above. For these tests, I used the procedure in your post, and switched the mag on after start and mesh.
As I've said in previous posts - I have years of experience starting simulated radials thanks to A2A, PMDG and others, so I don't think I'm missing any procedural steps.
That said, I'm completely open as to how to proceed.
I apologize to SOH management for using this thread for tech support, but I still haven't received a reply to the support message I sent to AH last Sunday night. Baz, if it didn't reach you, let me know and I'll resend, or send to another destination if you prefer.
Thanks in advance for anything anyone can suggest.
I had some time this afternoon and was able to try about two dozen engine starts. The result is that I was able to start the left engine once, and the right engine once, but not both at the same time. The only procedural difference in the successful starts is that I think I moved the mag switches faster. But that was just my impression and when I tried to replicate it deliberately, I couldn't get a start.
Additional information - both successful starts happened after I loaded the aircraft on top of the default P3D Piper Cub with engines running, and then shut down the DC-3 manually. I wasn't able to get a successful start when loading the DC-3 directly into the sim, or when loading over the default F-22, or when using the SHIFT+1 cold-and-dark switch.
Both of the successful starts were on battery - neither was on the GPU. Throttle on the successful starts was set right at 15 percent, according to the tooltips.
It seems clear that manual starts are possible but on my system they're very difficult to achieve, and that makes me wonder what's going on in settings.
I've had two similar experiences in the past - one with the Flight Replicas DC-4 and one with the PMDG DC-6. In both cases, the issue was with how the fuel system was initializing when the aircraft was first loaded. In the case of the DC-4, the solution was to load the default Cub with engines running, then switch to the DC-4 and shut down by cutting off mixtures. In the case of the DC-6, I loaded directly but had to switch from a cold-and-dark default flight to the standard default flight with engines running (that's what I've used for my default flight ever since, and what I'm using now). In the case of the DC-6, I also created a P3D profile without hardware mixture levers assigned, to avoid creating conflict. I did the same with the DC-3 but it didn't make any difference.
I'm left wondering whether Wothan's observations about the coding of the mags might be a factor.
An additional observation - when the DC-3 loads with engines running, the mixture levers are in cutoff and the fuel tank selectors are set to off. That also makes me wonder how the fuel system is being loaded and whether that might be a factor.
A probably unrelated observation - only the right engine produces a cranking sound when mesh is selected. The left engine is silent throughout the mesh and start sequence.
@Baz - about when to set the mag switches - your own revised manual calls for mag on before start and mesh, both in the startup procedure on page 20 and the checklist on page 36. That was changed in the 1.1 version of the manual - the 1.0 version called for mags off before start and mesh, as per your post above. For these tests, I used the procedure in your post, and switched the mag on after start and mesh.
As I've said in previous posts - I have years of experience starting simulated radials thanks to A2A, PMDG and others, so I don't think I'm missing any procedural steps.
That said, I'm completely open as to how to proceed.
I apologize to SOH management for using this thread for tech support, but I still haven't received a reply to the support message I sent to AH last Sunday night. Baz, if it didn't reach you, let me know and I'll resend, or send to another destination if you prefer.
Thanks in advance for anything anyone can suggest.
cavaricooper
SOH-CM-2023
@YoYo - Is this what you were asking me for?
@Bazzar - I selected HDR off and I have to admit that the VC looks MUCH crisper... thanks for that! BTW is there a way to delete the Rebecca whiskers on the port side of the DC-3? I am also starting to look for an Alaska Airlines paint if you happen across one
..
@Alan_A - just for giggles, I shut down #1 by putting it's tank selector to OFF and turning the Mag off. After blade stop, I turned the fuel back on, energized and meshed the Starter... for a dozen or so blades... turned on the booster pump, and flipped the Mag to Both. Two shots of prime and she was ticking over... not sure what the issue is at your end mate, but try my method en toto.
I did a bit of manual reading, and now I'm off to do a bit of manual flying
I can't find a thing wrong with the tail rise on initial roll- so far I'm smiling!
Best- C
Alan_A
Charter Member
@Carl - I’ll try your sequence next and report back. It’s a little different than mine - you seem to be doing start, mesh, fuel boost, mag, prime. I’ve been doing boost, prime, start, mesh, mag. Yours seems more procedurally correct for a real radial, whereas mine follows the AH manual. I know developers put some variations in - in Manfred’s, the primer switch functions as a start trigger - but I’ll see what yours gives me.
The other thing I’m wondering about is - had you installed 1.0 or did you go straight to 1.1? I installed 1.0 the day before the SP came out - didn’t get to use it, and removed it and replaced it with 1.1. Thinking that some stray code might have been left behind. Other people complaining about startup problems have also talked about reverting to 1.0. So maybe something got corrupted. I’ll see what I can come up with about that too.
More to follow...
The other thing I’m wondering about is - had you installed 1.0 or did you go straight to 1.1? I installed 1.0 the day before the SP came out - didn’t get to use it, and removed it and replaced it with 1.1. Thinking that some stray code might have been left behind. Other people complaining about startup problems have also talked about reverting to 1.0. So maybe something got corrupted. I’ll see what I can come up with about that too.
More to follow...
cavaricooper
SOH-CM-2023
Alan- I waited until 1.1 to purchase, so it went straight in. I start them the way I did when I could smell the oil burning
C
C
bazzar
Charter Member 2018
Alan, at no time do we say Mags on before starters. Please look at page 19 and the CheckList at page 35.
You need to leave the primers ON when starting. Flicking them on and off ain't going to get you anywhere.
I run a pretty standard V4.5 and V5 and start every time using those pages. Always re-check your battery switch between engines, especially if you used the GPU to start.
If you load with engines running the mixtures will be off and the fuel will look off but it isn't. With running engine starts in the simulator , the sim will set tanks to ALL which does not exist in our fuel system.That is why we ask peopple to reset all controls to ensure that everything is running properly.
The mixtures, as I have said many times now, are NOT based on stock mixture code. They will NOT obey standard simulator commands. So each time you start you MUST ensure that the levers are in Auto-Rich, even with ctrl/E. There is a Cold Dark,an auto-shut-down reset and a "ready to go" switch on the 2D panel.
You need to leave the primers ON when starting. Flicking them on and off ain't going to get you anywhere.
I run a pretty standard V4.5 and V5 and start every time using those pages. Always re-check your battery switch between engines, especially if you used the GPU to start.
If you load with engines running the mixtures will be off and the fuel will look off but it isn't. With running engine starts in the simulator , the sim will set tanks to ALL which does not exist in our fuel system.That is why we ask peopple to reset all controls to ensure that everything is running properly.
The mixtures, as I have said many times now, are NOT based on stock mixture code. They will NOT obey standard simulator commands. So each time you start you MUST ensure that the levers are in Auto-Rich, even with ctrl/E. There is a Cold Dark,an auto-shut-down reset and a "ready to go" switch on the 2D panel.
cavaricooper
SOH-CM-2023
Baz-
I think you meant to address Alan... ja?
C
I think you meant to address Alan... ja?
C
Alan_A
Charter Member
I did. Here's what I found. These are from the revised manual - the one named C47OpsManual.pdf, not the original one named C-47DC-3 Operations Manual.pdf.
The earlier version did call for mags off before start and mesh.
I wouldn't have thought of having mags on first. A user in another forum suggested it, so I tried it once. If that's not the right order (and I agree it shouldn't be), then you might want to revise those pages.
My P3D 4.5 is pretty standard, too - no FSUIPC, just P3D controls profiles, no other third-party utilities. I'm keeping it modest, anticipating a move to MSFS at some future point. I tried with and without Active Sky - same issues either way.
I'm going to try another uninstall/reinstall of your package and see what happens.
Question - when uninstalling, are there files or folders left behind that have to be deleted manually?
Also - I installed to the P3D Add-Ons folder. Could that be a factor?
Attachments
bazzar
Charter Member 2018
Alan, please use the manual that came with your installer. It is updated to SP1.1 manual. The original manual which, regrettably is still downloading at our site, should not be used.
The free download manual is just for those to have a peek before they buy. We will change it out for the new one but really you need to use the one that came with your package.
I seriously doubt that your problem has anything to do with the install. So, don't uninstall or whatever until you read the correct manual and try again.Thanks.
The free download manual is just for those to have a peek before they buy. We will change it out for the new one but really you need to use the one that came with your package.
I seriously doubt that your problem has anything to do with the install. So, don't uninstall or whatever until you read the correct manual and try again.Thanks.
Alan_A
Charter Member
Thanks, Baz - I'd (mis)understood the other manual to be an updated one for 1.1. I'll discard it.
Thing is, though, that I only tried that procedure as a workaround. In nearly all attempts, I've been using the procedure from the official manual.
In the latest round of tests, I was able once again to get one good start on one engine. This time around, it seems that the difference was that the throttle was more advanced - 20 percent, according to the tooltip. Also, that was after a manual shutdown using the mixture levers, not the SHIFT+1 cold-and-dark switch.
But unfortunately I wasn't able to replicate it.
Happy to try anything you suggest but really at a loss here.
Again, the other day I ran through start routines on the Manfred Jahn C-47 and the PMDG DC-6 and had no problems with either. So whatever is going on here is particular to the AH C-47 and DC-3 on my system.
Thing is, though, that I only tried that procedure as a workaround. In nearly all attempts, I've been using the procedure from the official manual.
In the latest round of tests, I was able once again to get one good start on one engine. This time around, it seems that the difference was that the throttle was more advanced - 20 percent, according to the tooltip. Also, that was after a manual shutdown using the mixture levers, not the SHIFT+1 cold-and-dark switch.
But unfortunately I wasn't able to replicate it.
Happy to try anything you suggest but really at a loss here.
Again, the other day I ran through start routines on the Manfred Jahn C-47 and the PMDG DC-6 and had no problems with either. So whatever is going on here is particular to the AH C-47 and DC-3 on my system.
bazzar
Charter Member 2018
Are you able by any chance to do a small video of what you do for starting? It's no good comparing to the freeware C-47,it has a totally different starting routine which is not by the (real)book. The DC6 I don't know.
If I could see what you're doing, it would really help.
If I could see what you're doing, it would really help.
YoYo
SOH-CM-2023
It can't be true in 1.1. .....
A very serious bug in the model's appearance still exists. It was adapted for 1.1. or not yet?
It looks terribly still
.The geometer of brackets of main gear is poorly made and is not characteristic of DC-3 (and this is a very characteristic part of DC-3).
Its easy to see on AH 1.1 model and Manfred's C-47 (as you can see in the Manfred's model it is made correctly, in AH it is not still):
In AH model it must look near like here:
Real:
with a broken shock absorber (more than full weight)
what's happening with it? It still does not look cool and well done and does not correspond to real thing.
YoYo
SOH-CM-2023
I tryied to explain everything on mail but it looks like it wasnt solved yet?
More pictures for developer: http://www.primeportal.net/hangar/mikael_bowellan/dc-3_finnish/index.php?Page=1 .
Btw. I still havent 1.1 v (no any update from PCAviator) so I based on pictures of cavaricooper. I sent Today mail to PCAviator about this update 1.1.
What can I do more for You to show this problem? I think that this is a very serious issue in the appearance of the model, very visible and annoying.
The cap of main gear is wrong modelled also but I won't cling to it again ;D if this bracket will be corrected.
SP2 incoming?
More pictures for developer: http://www.primeportal.net/hangar/mikael_bowellan/dc-3_finnish/index.php?Page=1 .
Btw. I still havent 1.1 v (no any update from PCAviator) so I based on pictures of cavaricooper. I sent Today mail to PCAviator about this update 1.1.
What can I do more for You to show this problem? I think that this is a very serious issue in the appearance of the model, very visible and annoying.
The cap of main gear is wrong modelled also but I won't cling to it again ;D if this bracket will be corrected.
SP2 incoming?
Last edited:
AussieMan
SOH Staff .."Bartender"
I tryied to explain everything on mail but it looks like it wasnt solved yet?
More pictures for developer: http://www.primeportal.net/hangar/mikael_bowellan/dc-3_finnish/index.php?Page=1 .
Btw. I still havent 1.1 v (no any update from PCAviator) so I based on pictures of cavaricooper. I sent Today mail to PCAviator about this update 1.1.
What can I do more for You to show this problem? I think that this is a very serious issue in the appearance of the model, very visible and annoying.
The cap of main gear is wrong modelled also but I won't cling to it again ;D if this bracket will be corrected.
SP2 incoming?
YoYo, you remind me of rivet counters I meet in the model railway hobby. I think you should ease up a little on AH and this model. AH have produced what I an many others feel is the perfect aircraft and something minor as a link on the undercarriage is not the end of the world. I suggest you ease off and let Bazzar get on with his work of producing great products.
YoYo
SOH-CM-2023
Its your choice, not mine. Sorry, the skier will never understand the rider
.And to be clear - I dont count rivets (please don't exaggerate it), but here is a too big issue not to notice it and if you followed this topic closely from the beginning, it's not just me who noticed the wrong geometry of main gear bracket, which causes the chassis to have a weird deflection and it looks very strange and not realistic.
It isn't also free addon as you know I think, but with from top level of pricing (like A2A or PMDG).
If that doesn't bother you, keep enjoing.
