Orbx TBF/TBM Avenger Released

[Bomber_12th]

So-far I haven't committed to this product, as from what I've seen and read so-far it's quite under powered compared to the real thing. You should be able to cruise at 130 kts (cruise settings should be about 30" MP and 1800-1900 RPM), and its top speed, running full bore, should be 232 kts at 16,000 ft. However, I've seen and read that this Orbx version won't get much above 120 kts, even with the power up and in a dive.

 

[Priller]

I beg to differ John. She's definitely no Ferrari, but I could take her to 190 kts easily. I didn't go to 16000 ft though.

Priller

 

[Bomber_12th]

That's good to hear, Priller. Unfortunately, I've also just read that the airpseed indicator on this product is off by about 20-30 kts compared to the airspeed it truly is traveling at in the sim (as confirmed by turning on the sim's instrument heads-up display).

Full range of issues so-far noted by others:

- Airspeed indicator is not calibrated correctly (20-30 kts off)
- The inner wing flaps don't work
- The propeller blades are always displayed in semi-coarse pitch, rather than fine pitch as they should be when the engine is off
- The cowl flaps and oil cooler flaps are either full open or full closed with no intermediate travel
- The turret gun is missing, even though there is no visual weapons ban on MSFS 2020/2024 aircraft
- On the real Avenger, the sliding canopy panels are independent of each other, where as on this model they are animated as one
- The pilots disappear in showcase/drone camera mode
- According to Youtube Vintage Simulations, the MSFS 2020 version flies better than the 2024 version, and there is a stutter issue with the aircraft in 2024 (as also reported by Jonathan Beckett)

 

[Priller]

That's good to hear, Priller. Unfortunately, I've also just read that the airpseed indicator on this product is off by about 20-30 kts compared to the airspeed it truly is traveling at in the sim (as confirmed by turning on the sim's instrument heads-up display).

Full range of issues so-far noted by others:

- Airspeed indicator is not calibrated correctly (20-30 kts off)
- The inner wing flaps don't work
- The propeller blades are always displayed in semi-coarse pitch, rather than fine pitch as they should be when the engine is off
- The cowl flaps and oil cooler flaps are either full open or full closed with no intermediate travel
- The turret gun is missing, even though there is no visual weapons ban on MSFS 2020/2024 aircraft
- On the real Avenger, the sliding canopy panels are independent of each other, where as on this model they are animated as one
- The pilots disappear in showcase/drone camera mode
- According to Youtube Vintage Simulations, the MSFS 2020 version flies better than the 2024 version, and there is a stutter issue with the aircraft in 2024 (as also reported by Jonathan Beckett)

In all honesty, I've experienced some of those issues myself: turret gun, cowl flaps.

No stutters in MSFS2020 though.

Like MSFS2024, why can't simulator software be released after beta? So frustrating.

Priller

 

[Flyingwrench]

Ran right out and bought the TBF. Have long had a thang for the TBF; ever since I was a kid that found the bones of a Turkey hulk laying on the beach in Corpus Christi just waiting for a young pilot with stars in his eyes. The old Monogram model with folding wings was another long time draw in my youth.

Always wanted to fly a TBF. That said I was disappointed with the Orbex offering. The first thing that put me off was the modern panel. At least give us an alternative. I would bet 90% of the TBF pilots buying this would vote for the original panel. All my other Grumman sims have origianal panels, even the jets. If I wanted a Garmin Panel I would fly that other TBM.

Second problem was the lone, shiny livery. Of course we can depend on modders over at Flightsim.to to fix that problem. Worse however are the L/R camera views that puts one sittng on top of the accessory section looking out past the cowl flaps. The problem is flight controls like the arrestor hook do not map properly to the assigned key like all the other carrier aircraft I have in the hanger. Since one cannot look left without riding the cowling like a demented major Kong, one must twist and crane their neck to deal with the arrestor hook control. At least the tail wheel lock maps. Why are camera views so difficult for developers? Better cameras? Flightsim.to again.

However the main problem by far is the flight profile. No doubt you have heard the old saw "it flies like a cub". Well this thing flys better than any cub I ever flew. It has what I call a "Cassius Clay" flight profile. Thus it floats like a butterfly but with an empty bomb bay, has no sting like a bee. I landed the turkey on the deck of the Lexington with no hook and stopped half way down the deck. Heck, this thing is so easy to fly, even George Bush could handle it.

 

[tankerguy72]

Rushed out to buy this one, but unfortunately after one flight it didnt do it for me. Not happy with with the sounds or the handling. Its going back in the hangar until theres some updates or something. What a pitty

 

[Paul K]

Given the amount of work that's gone into the model, particularly the interior, I can't imagine the developer will leave these shortcomings unaddressed. It's just too good a model to walk away from.

 

[dvj]

Confirmed the issue reports. The external audio seems to have an annoying track layer that sounds like mechanical ratteling. No gun as reported. No pilot, copilot. Single livery. Had difficulity with trim and vertical pitch. Want's to always pitch up. Cowling is an on-off animation. No smooth transition to open or closed. No torpedo? Shame on ORBX for all the hype. Shame on me for buying it.

 

[Javis]

Given the amount of work that's gone into the model, particularly the interior, I can't imagine the developer will leave these shortcomings unaddressed. It's just too good a model to walk away from.

Absolutely! Would be a great shame too if that'll happen. But who did the developing ?... The model itself, certainly the 'user-guide', the actual advert on the Orbx site in the aircraft listing ( f.i. all aircraft entries have a 'Details' section that names the developer. The Avenger has non...), they all have something strange and mysterious about them, don't they... It is obvious that there are FS aircraft devs outthere that buy a complete internal and external model from a professional modeller and finish it off themselves (flightmodel, programming, sounds, etc.) to sell as a new native aircraft model for the latest FS version. Must say the Orbx Turkey project does smell like that a bit.

No problem of course, no doubt that could work very well, *IF* there is no significant gap between the two seperate items. If you ask me that is clearly the case here with the Orbx Avenger. One extraordinairy beautiful internal/external model and one more or less unfinished 'not so beautiful' continuance to complete the model. Atleast that's the feeling i get. ;-)

Still no problem of course. *IF* Orbx will put the pedal to the metal to get all the mysteriousness out of this wonderful model. ( no word from Orbx itself or anybody else about the Avenger project on their forum.... )

On their Discord forum, low & behold, i found *two* entries about the Avenger. One that says "Absolutely 100 !" by Orbx Sante to the question if there will be any updates to it. And two is a question about the missing pilot. Answer in short: MSFS2024 has big problem with adding pilot figures. Only in default aircraft pilots are shown. We cannot help that.

The Avenger project announcement on Discord says that it's a 'TBF' and that it can do snap rolls and that you'd want to experience the roll rate of it.... The mystery continues....

 

[Javis]

The first thing that put me off was the modern panel. At least give us an alternative.

In my Turkey book that's one of the items i like most with the Orbx Avenger. There has never been a TBM/TBF in FS that had the flat-top panel atleast not to my knowledge. Only Avenger i loved to fly in FS9 was the Maam-Sim model with flight dynamics by flightmodel guru Rob Young. It had the original rounded-off panel:

(not the MAAM TBM cockpit but just about the same, and modern gauges because flying today)

So very happy to finally get the flat-top panel to fly the Turkey.

But you're right of course. Would've been great to have both !

Second problem was the lone, shiny livery.

Actually that's quite correct. The real TBM that the model was created from is pretty shiny as well. It's the Grumman TBM-3E Avenger VH-MML owned and flown by Paul Bennet Airshows PTY LTD, Rutherford, Australia :



Big bummer of course that's the only livery that comes with the Turkey package. Fits nicely into the incorporated big bummer box nontheless. There could've been a plethora of nice and interesting liveries for the TBM as well as for TBF which naturellement is blatantly missing as well.

There's a confirmation by Orbx on their Discord forum that an update is in the pipeline so let's wait and see. They have one fantastic external and internal model to begin with !

 

[Javis]

Btw, i bet someone here could shine a light on "KTX2", to me a mysterious (there's that word again) extension seen at the end of each and every texture name inside the Orbx Avenger texture folder. Is it sort of a new compression technique ?

What do i do/need exactly to get to the textures ? ( Jan Kees, any idea ?...)

Thanks very much !

 

[Mathias]

this is what I see in 2020, anybody any suggestions?

Screenshot (15167) by JanKees Blom, on Flickr

I just stumbled across a setting in the assistance options --> game experience --> aerodynamic visualization (freely translating that from my German game).
Maybe you turned that on by accidence?

If it's the SDK visualization, you can find a checkbox " Air Flow Visualization" in the devmode menu 'Debug --> Aircraft --> CFD'

 

[keithb77]

Btw, i bet someone here could shine a light on "KTX2", to me a mysterious (there's that word again) extension seen at the end of each and every texture name inside the Orbx Avenger texture folder. Is it sort of a new compression technique ?

What do i do/need exactly to get to the textures ? ( Jan Kees, any idea ?...)

Thanks very much !

They are compressed textures that can be directly loaded into GPU memory...the NVidia Texture tool can display/create/convert them.

Texture Tools Exporter

Allows users to create highly compressed texture files from image sources.

developer.nvidia.com

I'm in the process of converting my RAF T-33 (who knew...) livery to FS24 using the tool to convert my original DDS textures to KTX2, but only half of the converted textures display at the moment...probably my fault.
To work with the TBM I'd convert them to PNG to edit then back to KTX2 to test...or start with the FS20 version.

I'm holding off on the TBM because of those radios

 

[DennyA]

Those of you who have found specific repeatable bugs/issues/incorrect readings/etc. with the Avenger, please be sure to report them using the OrbX support site.

The quick jump to the "report a bug" link is:

https://orbxsystems.atlassian.net/servicedesk/customer/portal/2/group/-1

 

[Bomber_12th]

And two is a question about the missing pilot. Answer in short: MSFS2024 has big problem with adding pilot figures. Only in default aircraft pilots are shown. We cannot help that.

That's an incorrect and rather lazy statement from Orbx's, as there are already at least two great freeware addon aircraft which use the MSFS 2024 pilot figures/characters perfectly well:

Fouga Castel C-25 S - Training Glider for Microsoft Flight Simulator | MSFS

✓ Fouga Castel C-25 S - Training Glider is a Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020 mod created by BlueMesh. The Fouga Castel C-25 S is a classic French training glider designed for beginner and intermediate pilots, emphasizing simplicity and reliability. Its robust construction and user-friendly...

flightsim.to

Van's RV-7 for Microsoft Flight Simulator | MSFS

✓ Van's RV-7 is a Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020 mod created by deejing. The Vans RV-7 add-on for MSFS2024 features an updated 3D model and flight model, offering a detailed and realistic experience. Currently available is the glass cockpit taildragger variant, with plans...

flightsim.to

 

[DennyA]

Yeah, the FS2024 versions of the Iniibuilds T-33. CAS J-3 Cub, Bluemesh Castel, and Deejing RV-7 all manage to do pilots. I've only seen the "pilot hanging outside" issue in screenshots of the Asobo Bonanza.

 

[Javis]

It says 'Limited' beneath the cockpit windows, that's obviously because this particular Avenger belongs to an aerobatic airshow company. The developer of the model kept it there too although in case of the model that's not true, not limited at all !

Avangel proves it can even do 'The cobra' !

I would therefor like to vote for 'Limited' on the model to be changed to 'Inconsidered' which also fits Orbx statement about the missing pilot perfectly.

Bought quite a lot of Orbx scenery that i have liked a lot ( for all FS editions *before* MSFS2020) but know nothing about their aircraft offerings. Reading up a little bit about it the release of their Avenger model seems to follow the path being paved by all of their own aircraft releases: pretty buggy and very slow if ever with fixes and/or updates... That doesn't bode well for this particular Turkey..

 

[Javis]

They are compressed textures that can be directly loaded into GPU memory...the NVidia Texture tool can display/create/convert them.

Texture Tools Exporter

Allows users to create highly compressed texture files from image sources.

developer.nvidia.com

I'm in the process of converting my RAF T-33 (who knew...) livery to FS24 using the tool to convert my original DDS textures to KTX2, but only half of the converted textures display at the moment...probably my fault.
To work with the TBM I'd convert them to PNG to edit then back to KTX2 to test...or start with the FS20 version.

I'm holding off on the TBM because of those radios

Ok ! That's exactly what i wanted to know. Thank you very much, Keith !

(i have enjoyed doing textures for our Maam-Sim Turkey in FS9 and would love doing that again for the beauty we now have in MSFS2024, if however the model stays in the current crippled state i think i won't bother. Still a nice opportunity to see how far i can get with texturing today. I understand it will be quite another kettle of fish compared to about a decade ago ;-)

 

[keithb77]

Ok ! That's exactly what i wanted to know. Thank you very much, Keith !

(i have enjoyed doing textures for our Maam-Sim Turkey in FS9 and would love doing that again for the beauty we now have in MSFS2024, if however the model stays in the current crippled state i think i won't bother. Still a nice opportunity to see how far i can get with texturing today. I understand it will be quite another kettle of fish compared to about a decade ago ;-)

If you have mixed results converting textures (as I have) this might be worth reading

Unofficial Guide to Conversion of Liveries for MSFS 2024 (2020 legacy aircraft only)

This guide is aimed at experienced livery creators, rather than livery users. The guide assumes the person using it is already experienced in creating liveries for MSFS 2020, so is not a step by step guide for someone not familiar with livery creation. Since I had acquired all this information...

forums.flightsimulator.com

the author suggests Asobo may have extended the KTX2 format...

 

[Javis]

Thanks again, Keith ! Welcome information no doubt ! We'll see..