F7F Tigercat SOH Project

[Mick]

Hallo Friends,

the 2d panel is full in work and progressing well.
Mick you pointed me to the Reco panel, as you know I picked up the challenge and I asked Gaucho_59 to help me withe graphic part.
Now please can you tell me if you did almost a repaint of the special reco version? If it is so please tell me which one.

Yours
Papi

The -3P is the recce version, and I put up several skins for it. As shown by the models and the skins, there were single seat and two-seat -3P's, depending on what variant they were converted from, but they were all operated as single-seaters. Some two-seat conversions even had the rear canopy covered with sheet metal. Some early conversions had the small -1/12 tail, and later conversions had the big -3 tail. One of my skins has the small tail.

 

[Blackbird686]

By Jove, I think I've got it!

I've painted La Padrona again and this time I think I have a base color that I like. It looks silver in some light and silvery gray in some light, just as the real La Padrona seems to look in photos. It's probably not really right, bu I think it's acceptable.

Annoyingly, the screenie I took that I was going to post here doesn't look like the plane in the sim! It looks all glossy gray without much silver in it at all. It looks in the screenie like the previous version looked in the sim! Oddly enough, if you want to see what the new skin looks like in the sim, scroll up a few posts to my screenie of version 1, which didn't look like that. Very strange!

I think I can get get to look just a little more silver if I fiddle with the alpha channel a bit more. I need to get away from the computer, then come back in a while and look at it again. It's odd to be using the alpha channel with a skin that represents glossy, non-metallic paint, but that seems to be the only way to make it look silver. The trick is to make it look silver, as it should, but not look like bare metal, which is is not. (I wrote earlier that v.1 used a non-glossy, reflective model, but I was confused; that's not correct - there isn't a non-glossy model of the -3P.)

Anyway, I think I have it under control and that by this evening I'll upload a version 2 of LaPadrona that I'm happy with.

That's good news Mick. So far, I have all of your paints flying on the different versions of the Tigercat. Me favorite is the F7F-3N Korea but they are all superb. I think you're having too much fun painting the F7F model, but keep up the good work and have all the fin you want. Excellent work mate.

BB686

 

[Mick]

OK, I'm finished.

Kinda like photos of the real plane, it can look either silver-gray or real silver, depending on the light. I think it looks too much like bare metal sometimes, but not always.

It looks sort of gray in the screenie, but from other sun angles it can be quite silver.

I'm using this skin with the glossy and reflective model. It looks good that way on my rig, but it might look very different on yours, depending on system settings and especially on what enviro bitmap you have installed. You might like the skin better if you use the non-specular reflective model.

 

[wbuchart]

BuNo 80411 was the only F7F-3K target drone. It was converted by Bell Aircraft. It crashed on a demonstration flight at MCAS Cherry Point, NC on 8/8/46 and no more drone conversions were made. While the Tigercat didn't prove suitable as a drone, the entire surviving fleet of -2/-2N were converted into F7F-2D drone controllers. The -2D's served into late 1957, the last Tigercats in military service, and the most colorful, with their yellow wings and red bands.

H Mick, I'm enjoying your paints for the Tigercat. Tak you for these. I think the drone is a very cool concept. Would you consider doing a fictitious drone paint in orange? I tried to do it but I really suck at this...

 

[Maarten -]

I've painted La Padrona again and this time I think I have a base color that I like. It looks silver in some light and silvery gray in some light, just as the real La Padrona seems to look in photos. It's probably not really right, bu I think it's acceptable.

Annoyingly, the screenie I took that I was going to post here doesn't look like the plane in the sim! It looks all glossy gray without much silver in it at all. It looks in the screenie like the previous version looked in the sim! Oddly enough, if you want to see what the new skin looks like in the sim, scroll up a few posts to my screenie of version 1, which didn't look like that. Very strange!

I think I can get get to look just a little more silver if I fiddle with the alpha channel a bit more. I need to get away from the computer, then come back in a while and look at it again. It's odd to be using the alpha channel with a skin that represents glossy, non-metallic paint, but that seems to be the only way to make it look silver. The trick is to make it look silver, as it should, but not look like bare metal, which is is not. (I wrote earlier that v.1 used a non-glossy, reflective model, but I was confused; that's not correct - there isn't a non-glossy model of the -3P.)

Anyway, I think I have it under control and that by this evening I'll upload a version 2 of LaPadrona that I'm happy with.

Hi Mick,

I slightly darkened the grey of the alpha channels to 215,215,215. As you requested me here are two screenies of the modified livery. The left one features the livery on the F7F-3P model, the other the same livery on the F7F-3Pns model. There is hardly any difference between the two results, but my personal preferance goes to the F7F-3Pns. Matter of taste, I guess.

Cheers,
Maarten

 

[Mick]

Hi Mick,

I slightly darkened the grey of the alpha channels to 215,215,215. As you requested me here are two screenies of the modified livery. The left one features the livery on the F7F-3P model, the other the same livery on the F7F-3Pns model. There is hardly any difference between the two results, but my personal preferance goed to the F7F-3Pns. Matter of taste, I guess.

Cheers,
Maarten

Hi Maarten,

I did the something very similar. I started by using a slightly darker and slightly textured base color, then went to an alpha channel of 200,200,200 to lighten it up some. The result is virtually identical in the screenshots, at least to my eyes.

Just to see for sure, I think I'll try my original textures with the original base color and your 215,215,215 alpha channel and see if they really do look virtually identical in the sim. They may not, as this little exercise has shown me that screenies don't always look exactly like the image on the screen in the sim. I might wind up using your formula instead of my own.

It seems odd to be using the alpha channel to depict a glossy, non-metallic finish, but I guess we can't really get a convincing silver color without it. At least I can't. I've seen models that looked silver without an alpha channel, but I could never duplicate that effect, not even when I took the base color from textures that looked right on other planes. Very annoying!

You should still make your version available so folks can choose, since reflective renditions of silver color can look so different on different systems, depending on settings and the enviro.bmp in use. Since SOH doesn't seem to like your uploads, you could put it on FlightSim.com. I no longer worry about credits or restrictions, so write it up any way you like.

 

[Mick]

Maarten - your paint mix

Hi Maarten,

I tried your formula, using my original textures and your alpha channel values, and I like it the best of the various attempts.

None of my two versions or your enhancement look all that much different to my eyes, but I think your formula looks a little better than the others.

I think you should release it.

 

[Maarten -]

Hi Maarten,

I tried your formula, using my original textures and your alpha channel values, and I like it the best of the various attempts.

None of my two versions or your enhancement look all that much different to my eyes, but I think your formula looks a little better than the others.

I think you should release it.

Hi Mick!

Thank you very very much for those kind words. It was a great pleasure.
It would be too much honour to having me release the modified set. I prefer leaving the release to you. No, I even insist. You have made such great textures. Changing the colour of the alpha channels was really that easy and quick that it would embarress me to upload the package myself. Besides that, they should be uploaded at SOH in the very first place as far as I am concerned. So please.....

All the best,
Maarten

 

[michaelvader]

F7F Tigercat SOH Project 2d panel F-3 and reco panel

Dear Friends,

as I have no book concerning the Tigercat I must ask you the experts:
The F-3 has a complete othe cockpit, as it is equiped with a radar screen in the middle of the dashboard,
For the moment I use Eric Marcianos payware radar.
Does can someone point me to a freeware radar?
The second question concerns the radio altimeter. As I have seen on the docs Milton did send me seems that
the normal dayfighter had a radio altimeter wich was replaced by an Vor 1 indicator on the nightfighter version.
Do I see the things right?
Third question: how was the cockpit layout for the reco versiom? I presume that it was near to the F-3.
But did the cockpit have an radio altimeter or a ILS indicator? Had the Reconnaissance version also the radar
equipment or was it delated?
A last question; I have read about the use of the alpha channels for the textures - would it be possible to experiment
with the alpha channels also for the 2d panels?
Thank you for all the help you gave me almost
Yours
Papi

 

[Maarten -]

Hi Papi,

I have a book on the Tigercat which contains photos of the radar cockpit of the F7F-3N. I'll scan them tomorrow and post them on this page.

Cheers,
Maarten

 

[michaelvader]

Hi Friends,

thank you for your help and suport!
Milton again sended me some important documents.
I now have a special archive with all advices and docs you provided me.
So all what I can get I take it.
The cockpits for the F-3, F-3N and F-3P will be completly retarded because I will try to make them as real as possible.
This mainly you give me so much information to work with.
I must say the are two main reasons why I like soch much on this cockpit.
at first the model Milton gave us is simply fantastic!
the othe is that I had the luck to see several times the Tigercat displayed by Sir Stephen Gray.
Just a little fot note; sad that the is no Messerschmitt Me-410 or Focke Wulf TA-154 flying today, they would be interesting counter parts.
Yours
Papi

 

[NathanT28]

F7F Here Kitty Kitty taking off Wings Over Houston 2015

 

[Mick]

Hi Mick!

Thank you very very much for those kind words. It was a great pleasure.
It would be too much honour to having me release the modified set. I prefer leaving the release to you. No, I even insist. You have made such great textures. Changing the colour of the alpha channels was really that easy and quick that it would embarress me to upload the package myself. Besides that, they should be uploaded at SOH in the very first place as far as I am concerned. So please.....

All the best,
Maarten

OK Maarten, it's done.

 

[Milton Shupe]

OK Maarten, I'll do it. I hate to pester Rami again, but I will. I hope it's as easy to delete a file from the library as it is to delete one on our regular computers. I'll have to edit the information file a bit, so I'll put in that you tweaked the textures for me and got them looking better.

Mick,

There is a Delete Button at the bottom of the form.

First EDIT the archive (Top right envelope button with pencil), then scroll down to the bottom, select DELETE, than SUBMIT.

 

[Mick]

H Mick, I'm enjoying your paints for the Tigercat. Tak you for these. I think the drone is a very cool concept. Would you consider doing a fictitious drone paint in orange? I tried to do it but I really suck at this...

Oh man... There is nothing more difficult than changing the base color and retaining the details. And there are seven external textures that must be done exactly the same of they won't look right. Painting the yellow -3K was an absolute bear, as was the silver-gray warbird, and even the plane with the orange trim was an awful job.

If I definitely had to start from scratch I'd say it was too much work. However, it might be possible to start with the yellow skin and just alter the yellow to orange. (I'll try it on one texture, and if it works out fairly easily I can do the others. But if it turns out to be just a tricky as the change from blue to yellow, I don't know if I could go through that aggravation again. That's the main reason I didn't follow the suggestion to make a drone -1; the -1 and -3 have different textures, and the lines and details won't line up properly if you use one version's textures with another version's model. Maybe some textures would work, but most would not.

I'll see if I can fiddle some tomorrow, but don't hold your breath. Based on what I've done so far, I feel pretty sure that the change to orange will be more work than I can get motivated for. We'll see...

 

[Mick]

Dear Friends,

as I have no book concerning the Tigercat I must ask you the experts:
The F-3 has a complete othe cockpit, as it is equiped with a radar screen in the middle of the dashboard,
For the moment I use Eric Marcianos payware radar.
Does can someone point me to a freeware radar?
The second question concerns the radio altimeter. As I have seen on the docs Milton did send me seems that
the normal dayfighter had a radio altimeter wich was replaced by an Vor 1 indicator on the nightfighter version.
Do I see the things right?
Third question: how was the cockpit layout for the reco versiom? I presume that it was near to the F-3.
But did the cockpit have an radio altimeter or a ILS indicator? Had the Reconnaissance version also the radar
equipment or was it delated?
A last question; I have read about the use of the alpha channels for the textures - would it be possible to experiment
with the alpha channels also for the 2d panels?
Thank you for all the help you gave me almost
Yours
Papi

Hi Papi,

The F7F-3N had a radar repeater for the pilot, but the F7F-3 wouldn't have that. The -3Ps were converted from both flavors of -3 (which is why some had a back seat and others didn't) I believe the cockpits were all made the same, so there wouldn't be a radar repeater. But the photos in Maarten's book should show you for certain. (I read that he's going to send you some scans.)

I don't know what you'd use the alpha channel for in a panel, but whatever you want to do with it, I suspect that you couldn't do it. The alpha channel controls one of only two things; either transparency or reflection, depending on how the model is coded. I don't know how either of those properties would be useful in a panel. But even if they would be useful, I doubt that they'd be possible. That's because FS reads different formats for different purposes.

External texture files can be 256 color or extended bitmaps (DXT1, DXT3 or 888-32 bit) and only extended bitmaps have an alpha channel. For panels, FS reads 24-bit files, and they don't have an alpha channel. It might read 256-color bitmaps for panel backgrounds, but I don't think it can read extended texture files, though I could be wrong about that. If I'm right, then you can't use an alpha channel in a panel.

As you know, you can have transparency in a panel, simply by making the part you want transparent pure black. I don't think you can have reflections in a panel.

 

[Mick]

Mick,

There is a Delete Button at the bottom of the form.

First EDIT the archive (Top right envelope button with pencil), then scroll down to the bottom, select DELETE, than SUBMIT.

Thanks Milton, bu that doesn't work for me. I check Delete then click Submit and I get an error page telling me that I must first check the Confirm Delete box, but there is no Confirm Delete to select. Maybe only Staff get that option...?

 

[Mick]

VC Panel Questions

I have two questions about the VC panels in the Tigercat.

First, is there a way to make the VC appear at 75% zoom by default? That would make a seamless transition between the 2D and VC panels.

Second, can anyone explain what's going on in the screenie below, and how to fix it? See how the bottom of the panel fades to white? That's not in the texture, but it's in the sim. Is it like that for everyone, or is it some weirdness in my system? It's not a real big deal, since it's way at the bottom where it's seldom likely to be seen (it's zoomed way out in the screenie) but it would be nice if it can be fixed.

 

[Milton Shupe]

I have two questions about the VC panels in the Tigercat.

First, is there a way to make the VC appear at 75% zoom by default? That would make a seamless transition between the 2D and VC panels.

Second, can anyone explain what's going on in the screenie below, and how to fix it? See how the bottom of the panel fades to white? That's not in the texture, but it's in the sim. Is it like that for everyone, or is it some weirdness in my system? It's not a real big deal, since it's way at the bottom where it's seldom likely to be seen (it's zoomed way out in the screenie) but it would be nice if it can be fixed.

Yes, the panel texture has probably been darkened. In doing so, the darker values likely went lower than 8,8,8. When the sim loads it, unless indexed, the panel converts to 8-bit and values get rounded down to the next 8 ... that being zero, and therefore transparency. It happens to me when I try to darken panel textures especially around gauge faces that are near pure black for the shadowing around bezels.

So, the moral is, if you darken panel textures, ensure you stay above 8,8,8 in all areas, or you must redraw those areas.

But, you can at least edit the upload, which means you can change you archive and re-upload it without totally redoing everything, or you can edit text, or change the image you are using.

 

[Milton Shupe]

Thanks Milton, bu that doesn't work for me. I check Delete then click Submit and I get an error page telling me that I must first check the Confirm Delete box, but there is no Confirm Delete to select. Maybe only Staff get that option...?

Could be a staff option only but I have never seen the confirm delete, at least as I recall.