Gentlemen, please - could we agree on this?

Interesting thread. I appreciated Cliff527's initial plea for these (and any) forums to remain free of overall bias as much as possible. As a prospective customer I find the suggestion of (even if only self-) censorship of thread titles just a little bit of a concern.

I guess the suggestion was meant well, but it actually arouses my suspicion that things may be being hidden! Now I am certainly not claiming they are. But there is the implication perhaps that BH&H either has to be appreciated, otherwise you are not allowed to express your own subjective (but otherwise surely valid) opinion here.

That attitude really does concern me as a prospective customer, here or anywhere. It is completely unrealistic to expect any product to please everyone, but_I_can make a far better decision about whether something will meet my expectations by reading a wide variety of praise_and_criticism.

I am quite capable of making my own informed choice about a product and the odd "This game s***" threads in a support forum will_never_put me off. (If that's all someone can write it often says more about them than the product itself.) Hearing 'all praise' (and forum members insisting on it) is probably more likely to put me off a purchase. It gives the impression of being a very narrow 'niche only' product and I don't know if I will fit in the niche.

But I know hearing criticism about something you love is never easy. So perhaps there could be a separate sub-forum for constructive criticism (and even perhaps rants!) so as not to offend the ones who find OFF to be their perfect cuppa?

Anyway just my 2c while I wait for more reviews of BH&H to appear on the internet and/or here.
 
FritzFraghof said:
Interesting thread. I appreciated Cliff527's initial plea for these (and any) forums to remain free of overall bias as much as possible. As a prospective customer I find the suggestion of (even if only self-) censorship of thread titles just a little bit of a concern.

I guess the suggestion was meant well, but it actually arouses my suspicion that things may be being hidden! Now I am certainly not claiming they are, because of course I have no clue. But there is the implication perhaps that BH&H either has to be appreciated here, otherwise you are not allowed to express your own subjective (but otherwise surely valid) opinion here.

That attitude really does concern me as a prospective customer, here or anywhere. It is completely unrealistic to expect any product to please everyone, but_I_can make a far better decision about whether I will like something by reading a wide variety of praise_and_criticism.

I am quite capable of making my own informed choice about a product and the odd "This game s***" threads in a support forum will_never_put me off. Hearing 'all praise' (and forum members insisting on it) is probably more likely to put me off a purchase.

But I know hearing criticism about something you really love is never easy. So perhaps there could be a separate sub-forum for criticism so as not to offend the ones who place OFF on a pedestal?

Anyway just my 2c...
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Quite, but unless I'm missing something, I'm rather puzzled by Cliff's logic of coming on to a forum to criticze a version of the game he hasn't played? Have I got that right? While everyone is free to express an opinion, criticizing what you don't have seems...odd. Clearly he's disappointed by his experience of phase 2, which is fine, but this isn't phase 2, he's not out of pocket, he clearly doesn't intend to purchase phase 3, so I'm not sure what the beef is?

Is it because he feels his rig ought to be able to run it, but it can't? That's hardly the devs fault. This is an old gripe with pc games, the vast array of manufacterers out there will always mean that even if your rig meets the specs, it's possible some kind of conflicts or incompatibilites may emerge and there's no way any dev can ever test enough combinations of kit to absolutely ensure they won't. This is oviously more so the case when you're dealing with a product like OFF, which has a dedicated, motivated, but small team with limited resources available to them.

I've got nothing invested here at all, I don't yet own the game, I've ordered it, but it hasn't yet arrived. While I'm looking forward to it and I support the project and the devs, I don't expect it to be flawless, or perfect. If I don't enjoy it, well that's my loss and my bad judgement in shelling out the cash. Lesson learned.

I wouldn't presume to offer Cliff advice and I'm not quite sure what he's looking for? Any apology from the devs? Anyway, if I were him then I'd rather spend my free time playing games I do enjoy, rather than posting criticism on a forum for a version of a game I haven't purchased. Crazy stuff eh?
 
you obviously have not seen the modded il-2 1946

Fortiesboy said:
cliff527 said:
Primarily, that of graphics performance. You look down at my system specs (sig line), consider that I've tried every tweak on this and other forums I can find, etc. etc. etc. I'm sorry, it just comes down to the simple fact: CFS3 was poorly behaved, graphically speaking, and OFF inherited (at least some of) that.

Now, in fairness, I don't own P3 (yet). I say yet, because I frankly decided to wait and see if it got any better in P3 before I paid for it

As it happens i agree with you ( and Siggi ) about objectivity and the right to say what is not liked about OFF ( or any other sim ), and,like Siggi, I think OFF3 is the best sim there is by far, though there are some things i would like to see different; but i would take you to task on your graphics opinion.-

and I think i have asked you this before, though you didn't answer, -

What flight sim do you reckon has got better graphics than OFF?
Surely, (you don't mind me calling you surely, do you ?:)), you go on what you see rather than what you think you should see, and your judgement must be made on a comparison basis as to what other flight sims are out there?
On that basis I think there are none better, particularly low down flying, which is why i have asked you to name the others which you consider to be better.?

Tell me someone has a machine that runs with *no* stutters (none, zero, notta) - not anywhere, not any time...and then let's look at how much money they threw at it to run that way...

I'll tell you - me !

I don't have stutters. At all.

I have tweaked CFS3 according to the websites ( found using google ),
I fly with all AV and firewalls off ( not online obviously ) ; I disable many unnecessary processes ( see blackVipers' site ) and i don't try to run with sliders at 5 - ( 53341 ).
I run new Quad I7 processor 2.93, mildy overclocked with mobo software to 3.06- that really gave extra FPS -nVidia 280 graphics card. on XP 32 bit.

Also - you do know that the higher the resolution you use, the faster CFS3 and OFF run, don't you.?- Contrary to the general rule.

So, Cliff - I agree with your sentiments re objectivity, but I cannot agree with you re OFF's graphics .

cheers
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by far the best flight sim graphic's i have ever witnessed.
but as i have said so very many time's, there is room for all and play them all but the one that gives you the most joy you simply play more than the other's.

PD
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pilotsden said:
Fortiesboy said:
by far the best flight sim graphic's i have ever witnessed.
but as i have said so very many time's, there is room for all and play them all but the one that gives you the most joy you simply play more than the other's.

PD
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I bought Il-2 1946 over Xmas based on recommendations of the best terrain ever and I must admit looks like Il-2 to me.... must have missed something!

:rapture:

WM
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For CLIFF: You ask everyone to read your posts right. Okay.
In your last, I read: Now, in fairness, I don't own P3 (yet). I say yet, because I frankly decided to wait and see if it got any better in P3 before I paid for it.
How do I have to understand this? I mean, I'm German and may not understand EVERY word here right, but this seems to say, that you haven't even played "Between Heaven and Hell" ?
But how can you judge it's behaviour graphics-wise then?
Here's some information for you, that might help for your decision to spend your 50 Dollars. The game is running without stutters, and framerates between 28 and up to 50 on this (my) system:
Intel Core 2 Duo E 6550 2.33 GHz; 2 GB RAM; Radeon X1900 graphic card

What you have experienced, was Phase 2, right? (And yes, there I had stutters, too).
But, after all you said so far, about honesty, and reading your words right; I would expect the same from you, Cliff. No more. And that includes, not to write or even judge about something, you haven't even experienced.

Still for you, CLIFF, and everyone else in this thread:
this was an interesting debate, with high rising emotions sometimes, but nevertheless fair. I liked Siggi's taking Cliff's perspective for a bit. And I liked your fighting, Cliff - a bit like a single pilot, surrounded by several enemy planes. Or let me better say "opponents" - cause no one can be my enemy, whom I haven't even met. This was a refreshing dogfight to me, and don't be afraid, WIDOWMAKER - we're all grown up, intelligent Gentlemen pilots.
My closing advice for Cliff (and everyone else, who's into WW1 flight sim, and hasn't got "Between Heaven and Hell" yet): get it. You won't regret it, I'm sure.
Thanks all for the many interesting contributions!
Olham
 
Winder said:
pilotsden said:
I bought Il-2 1946 over Xmas based on recommendations of the best terrain ever and I must admit looks like Il-2 to me.... must have missed something!

:rapture:

WM
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Well I saw a screenie posted somewhere from (I think PD, but i may be wrong?) with the most amazing scenery!..But I haven't found anything else for IL2 1946 that looks anything other than (like you say) bulk standard IL2
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I have IL2 - 1946, and the scenery is not, what makes it worth buying.
What I like about it, is, that I can play multiplayer co-ops, via LAN connection, with my neighbour. It's very big fun (at least for me), when your Squad.mate / Wingman is really sitting next to you. No headphone talks. Just call for help - and it comes! That's fun!

What I didn't like: always, when I played it alone, and had the chased Russian plane in my gunsight, some Geschwader mate came happily flying on, settled in between me and the Russian, and shot him down. I hate, to be helped, were no help is requested!
 
PD is talking about modded IL-2 not stock one. The modded version the Boys Of 60 are using.
 
What we will soon be seeing

Will absolutly,uniquivically,blow you away as the map makers have struck pure gold in the next soon to be released masterpeices.

Much the same as wm and the crew have done with the cfs-3 engine.
Pd
 
this is the O.F.F. FORUME

Olham54 said:
Would you be so kind to tell, when it's out, and were to download it from?
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so use google to get your answers to these questions. i do not wish to elaborate any further on this. it is suffice to say once found you will not be disapponted.
just as those who find B.H.& H the same way feel.

PD
 
Olham54 said:
Would you be so kind to tell, when it's out, and were to download it from?
Click to expand...

Interested parties can skin aircraft and develop missions, but that's pretty much it. The maps, terrain and aircraft are all hard-coded and inaccessible to modders, as is all the weapons data and flight models.
 
ivanmoe said:
The maps, terrain and aircraft are all hard-coded and inaccessible to modders, as is all the weapons data and flight models.
Click to expand...

Somebody should have told the modders that then ;), but I'll say no more. Let it suffice to say I believe there may be a bit of a legal issue involved. Probably best not to discuss such matters here at all.

:monkies:

Cheers,

Parky
 
there is NO LEGAL ISSUE

THE DEVELOPERS DISLIKE IT. no one is makeing one thin dime on it so it is perfectly legal.
just so happens the modder's figured out the code.
THEY are worried about cheats, they being the ''on liner's''
the horses escaped the barn over a year ago.

PD
 
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