To the silent majority

Wouldn't it be great if we had skype classroom sessions to learn Gmax, or skinning. I wonder if that is possible to set up on this site. One class a month say at 7pm, you log in, and a host developer walks us all through the basics in real time. Sounds like a great way to teach new developers.

Doug
 
Fnerg said:
Wouldn't it be great if we had skype classroom sessions to learn Gmax, or skinning. I wonder if that is possible to set up on this site. One class a month say at 7pm, you log in, and a host developer walks us all through the basics in real time. Sounds like a great way to teach new developers.

Doug
Click to expand...

Doug, and others..... i've just started an FS Video Series in the hopes of passing on some of my knowledge, i can also host a livestream so that if people haven't gotten 'up to speed' as it were i can say "Ok, Mondays i'll focus my livestream on ......., wednesdays ......" etc.....

first can be found here in a Video Series.... 1 and 2 are there 3 is uploading as i type :icon_lol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0Nk...ew-vl&list=PL8q9o1fpoD8LssxIn_K6Ho3m92CviSKHW
 
Bjoern said:
I still need to finish a manual. And a 737. And some repaints for an EMB-110. And do some AI paints. And...AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH WHY DID YOU REMIND ME?!?
Click to expand...
Are you painting Edgar Guinarts Embraer? There's not much paints for it, i found only few for older no-vc version
 
Hi,
@ gaucho_59 really !

No, that wasn't what I was hoping... I have tried a few times using Tom's tutorial over at CalClassic to get a handle on basic repainting and finish up with a tartan airplane each time. In fact I think that was just trying to change FSX textures to FS9!
I think it's the format; the screens and the layers and sending things back and forth to Editors that confuse me. Maybe it's time to invest in a real program and give it a proper go.

Andy.

Just started watching Matts tutorial and d/loading DXT and Gimp. New beginning...but how do you paint without a paint kit?
 
ViperPilot2 said:
Gaucho...

Thank you for the advice. As you can see, a little guidance (and a stiff kick in the ass) can get the cerebellum going, and things start to become clearer...

Tom and Dave...

Thank you very much for your explanations! It's the perfect base for which I can start to wrap my mind around these terms and have a better understanding, via the Tutorials, of how all this works.

Time for some more reading, and then, choose the proper paint program...

;)
Click to expand...
Viper,

While you decide on the paint program, grab DXTBMP and Model Convertor X. These are freeware programs you'll need for repainting. I explained DXTBMP somewhat already. What Model Convertor does for you, is allow you to import an FS model and apply the installed paints to them. You can view the "finished" product in 360 degree, three axis rotation. You can zoom your view in and also actuate the animations of the model. All WITHOUT opening Flight Simulator. This is a HUGE, HUGE time saver! (I can't believe how I did repaints for years without this one, trial and error, open and close FS. What a pain! Now I never open FS to check a repaint.) I think it was Matt Wynn or Milton Shupe, who turned me on to Model Convertor so I'll pay it forward to you.

1. Model Convertor X download
http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/downloads.php?do=file&id=83

2. Model Convertor X Information manual and how - to.
http://www.fsdeveloper.com/wiki/index.php?title=ModelConverterX

3.DXTBMP download
http://www.mwgfx.co.uk/

Dave
 
p3aewguy said:
Viper,

While you decide on the paint program, grab DXTBMP and Model Convertor X. These are freeware programs you'll need for repainting. I explained DXTBMP somewhat already. What Model Convertor does for you, is allow you to import an FS model and apply the installed paints to them. You can view the "finished" product in 360 degree, three axis rotation. You can zoom your view in and also actuate the animations of the model. All WITHOUT opening Flight Simulator. This is a HUGE, HUGE time saver! (I can't believe how I did repaints for years without this one, trial and error, open and close FS. What a pain! Now I never open FS to check a repaint.) I think it was Matt Wynn or Milton Shupe, who turned me on to Model Convertor so I'll pay it forward to you.

1. Model Convertor X download
http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/downloads.php?do=file&id=83

2. Model Convertor X Information manual and how - to.
http://www.fsdeveloper.com/wiki/index.php?title=ModelConverterX

3.DXTBMP download
http://www.mwgfx.co.uk/

Dave
Click to expand...

Dave,

Thanks for the tips! I already have DXTbmp, and am leaning towards GIMP as the painting program.
Since I'll only be working with FS 9, is there something comparable to Model Convertor X that I can use?

Keep the tips like this coming; I think what you guys are doing is making a HUGE difference! The door's been opened a crack, we can peer in with a little understanding and finally get how this Repainting gig works! The simple explanations also help a TON!

Matt -- I watched your first three Videos and they were AWESOME! I eagerly await your next ones!
Thank you for taking the time to produce these, and for choosing GIMP so we're all learning!

:salute: View attachment 92192
 
ViperPilot2 said:
Dave,

Thanks for the tips! I already have DXTbmp, and am leaning towards GIMP as the painting program.
Since I'll only be working with FS 9, is there something comparable to Model Convertor X that I can use?

Keep the tips like this coming; I think what you guys are doing is making a HUGE difference! The door's been opened a crack, we can peer in with a little understanding and finally get how this Repainting gig works! The simple explanations also help a TON!

Matt -- I watched your first three Videos and they were AWESOME! I eagerly await your next ones!
Thank you for taking the time to produce these, and for choosing GIMP so we're all learning!

:salute: View attachment 92192
Click to expand...

Viper,

Model Convertor X works for FS9, which is what I use.

Dave
 
Now you are talking!

lemonadedrinker said:
Hi,
@ gaucho_59 really !

No, that wasn't what I was hoping... I have tried a few times using Tom's tutorial over at CalClassic to get a handle on basic repainting and finish up with a tartan airplane each time. In fact I think that was just trying to change FSX textures to FS9!
I think it's the format; the screens and the layers and sending things back and forth to Editors that confuse me. Maybe it's time to invest in a real program and give it a proper go.

Andy.

Just started watching Matts tutorial and d/loading DXT and Gimp. New beginning...but how do you paint without a paint kit?
Click to expand...

Well, a paint kit...is someone's idea as to how to paint models... I prefer to do things from scratch myself... but then again... I can reproduce about anything I can see...
I have a gifted eye for painting... and work in layers (that is all a paint kit is)... However... a paint kit... with weathering layers... panel lines, etc. is a good guide to reproduce
someone else's creation... like a different livery for the same aircraft someone else ORIGINALLY painted...
Basically, all paint kits follow the same principle... DIFFERENT LAYERS FOR DIFFERENT THINGS IN THE AIRCRAFT...
Like I explained before... my particular way is...

[1] draw a template (basically... if it is someone else's creation... a blank of all the mapped surfaces...in a particular texture plate ... i.e: the wireframes (and here
we get into the jargon that, for the uninitiated can be confusing)... the original model is created like in GMax... and basically consists of a 3D model ... the so called wireframe...
it is the outer surface of the model... which is translated into flat plates to be painted... here one has to be careful... because the texture is flat but WRAPS around the body of the model...
so is like a flat mapamundi or World Chart ...or so called planisphere where you see all the continents of the SPHERICAL EARTH (volume and 3D) in a flat map...
in other words... in the flat plate... the equator... which is larger than the arctic circle... appear all the same length... the width of the chart.. when they REALLLY ARE NOT!
so.. for example... in an engine nacelle.... screws in the midline are circular... but as the plate "wraps" around the nacelle up and down and fore and aft... the same screws become more and more oval...towards the
top and the bottom... a straight line in the fuselage... fore and aft... really follows the contour of the sides of the plane... so painting things straight... when they are in fact curved... will
show funny in the model in the sim... like the OD anti-glare panel.. you paint straight fore and aft... and in the model the anti-glare panel shows tapered toward the nose...
so you have to compensate... by trial and error... how this line will show straight on a tapered surface by drawing it curved on the flat texture plate... and vice-versa
As you see... it is very difficult to explain to someone who is not familiar with the jargon and the painting itself.... at any rate.. there are parallax perplexities.. that need to be taken into account...
thus.. a model that has relatively flat surfaces... i.e.: without a lot of compound curves... will be easier to work with when you are not very experienced...
So... returning to the so called paint kit... the layers for each texture plate will depend on the different characteristics you want to portray... in FS9.. a lot of folks use the alpha channel to apply dynamic shines...
e.g.: that change with the angle of the sun or light source on the model in movement...
The discourse is getting too long, I think, for this venue... If you have specific questions... drop me a PM.. and I will be glad to get you an answer...
Cheers
 
lemonadedrinker said:
New beginning...but how do you paint without a paint kit?
Click to expand...

Carefully!

But on a more serious note .... Depends what you are looking to do, and what your source material is. Personally I started off with simple changes, things like changing the squadron markings & serials on RAF jet fighters; so in an instance like that, I might use a new layer for squadron bars/badges, one for new serials and find a way of removing the old ones in a way that would preserve details such as panel lines - in Photoshop, for example, the Clone Stamp is perfect for 'copying' similar details into place.

Baby steps and lots of patience; first time out, obviously, you're never going to produce work like Gaucho or SteveB or Matt, but you'll get better & braver with each effort. I've now got one or two things I'm working on which need new panel lines & more detail drawing in, so soon I'll have the rudiments of a paintkit; but I won't know how to add shading, or weathering, or the other eye candy - luckily I know a few people who do, and might be able to give me pointers.

Oh, worth remembering that you are restricted in what you can do by the mapping used by the model's original designer; I'd love to put Mike Stone's Twin Pioneer in RAF Middle East markings, but the tailplane is mapped in a way that means I can't do it (well, not without serious compromise); similarly I wanted to repaint the Musee de L'Air Salamander but mapping issues on the two available models would, again, mean compromises I'm not happy to make.

That doesn't just apply to painting; through trial & error I'm learning to make basic scenery with ADE - a way off yet, and it won't be up to Ian's standards, but hopefully it'll fill some gaps. And if I ever get my head around FSDS or Gmax I'll be dangerous!!!

Dive in, give it a go; there are plenty of people here who can double as lifeguards.
 
Excellent adivse...

AndyG43 said:
Carefully!

But on a more serious note .... Depends what you are looking to do, and what your source material is. Personally I started off with simple changes, things like changing the squadron markings & serials on RAF jet fighters; so in an instance like that, I might use a new layer for squadron bars/badges, one for new serials and find a way of removing the old ones in a way that would preserve details such as panel lines - in Photoshop, for example, the Clone Stamp is perfect for 'copying' similar details into place.

Baby steps and lots of patience; first time out, obviously, you're never going to produce work like Gaucho or SteveB or Matt, but you'll get better & braver with each effort. I've now got one or two things I'm working on which need new panel lines & more detail drawing in, so soon I'll have the rudiments of a paintkit; but I won't know how to add shading, or weathering, or the other eye candy - luckily I know a few people who do, and might be able to give me pointers.

Oh, worth remembering that you are restricted in what you can do by the mapping used by the model's original designer; I'd love to put Mike Stone's Twin Pioneer in RAF Middle East markings, but the tailplane is mapped in a way that means I can't do it (well, not without serious compromise); similarly I wanted to repaint the Musee de L'Air Salamander but mapping issues on the two available models would, again, mean compromises I'm not happy to make.

That doesn't just apply to painting; through trial & error I'm learning to make basic scenery with ADE - a way off yet, and it won't be up to Ian's standards, but hopefully it'll fill some gaps. And if I ever get my head around FSDS or Gmax I'll be dangerous!!!

Dive in, give it a go; there are plenty of people here who can double as lifeguards.
Click to expand...

You got it right... everything you said makes sense....:salute::applause::applause::applause::kilroy:
 
I am working on an old He 115 with Shessy and

AndyG43 said:
There is a first time for everything! :)
Click to expand...

Here is an example of the layer work I was talking about...
I took the original, repeated the mapping on a layer over it... with just the basic camouflage colors...
then, a next layer with the insignia... the nicht bettreten stencils.. gasoline triangles, etc.
yet another layer with the basic shadings (light and dark), and general shine...
Atop this, a layer with panel lines, (actually, it was done first.. and then put the shadings sandwiched in-between...
that is the beauty of working in layers... each transparency can be move up or down from the basic texture to suit
the best appearance.. YOU DO HAVE TO KEEP A CERTAIN ORDER... like panel lines go atop.. insignia... weathering
atop that... etc. [just common sense... lines show through insignia... weathering goes atop insignia... otherwise you
get an immaculate roundel on a weathered bird... get the picture?
In the end.... I use as many layers as needed to obtain the desired effect... some of them remain so they can be used
on another livery for the aircraft in question.... like insignia and letterings, shines and shadings, and maybe basic colors,
when the particular paint scheme is pretty much the same... otherwise... a new layer must be created for the specific
other livery...
In the end, you blend the layers together for the final texture that goes on the model....like the one I am showing as
an example...
With time...and attention to detail, anyone can get a finish like this one... it just takes patience...and of course, an eye for getting what you
pictured in your mind's eye... try... no good... try something different... till you get what you're looking for...
no rocket science, really... just patient work and attention to detail....
then you throw the textures in the model and see how it shows...keeping the multilayer texture separated so as to make corrections...
[a line that should curve sooner or further on... a shadow that is not quite in the right place... details that show too nitid and need to be
subdued more, etc.
For instance... you do the rivets at normal transparency... and then play with the transparency so they end up in-scale,
just the right nitid shade, etc. One thing one wants to do is keeping scale in mind at all times... remembering that a
line for a 1mm plate gap in the actual model... is barely discernible in the model... some folks do panel lines that in scale
would have a gap between plates like 5 inches wide (then one wonders... what the f...k keeps this bird from falling apart, no?)
same thing with rivets.... make sure they are not the size of saucers... at a distance one hardly sees them... just shines and
shadows.... very subtle...
I can take you through the process with successive pics... (easiest way to show the process) but it will require making up
a tutorial... and ergo.. time! and am planning to produce some soon...
It would be best to do them to show a particular question some one or some people have...
I will put out some more examples very soon...

Just finished a weathered tailfin and the engine cowlings...
same method.... trying to obtain a realistic volumetric (cylinder like) play of shadings and light...
I think this type of shine is more effective than the computer generated alpha channels... because the alpha channel shines sometimes
fall in the wrong places... very uniform... and real life objects are not like that....
 
The AI_MiG-23UB during the flight testing. :salute:


zd311cyikzh2.jpg


4bs6ossx944.jpg


pxafz16gce4.jpg
 
ViperPilot2 said:
Steve,

There are many times when I have thought of learning how to repaint aircraft, or create scenery. What has discouraged me every time is the lack of a 'glossary' explaining basic terms like 'layers', 'alpha channel', or with Scenery, terms like 'flatten', 'exclude', etc.

Please note that this is my personal opinion, no one else's... here goes:

I tend to get the impression that, once one gets past the preliminaries (what software to use, what other programs one needs), that all of the 'important' informational steps one needs to proceed with become 'Secrets of the State'; details that no one is willing to impart with under fear of exile, ostracism, apathy, or something to that effect.

The 'standard' answer to these inquiries invariably ends up as being on the lines of "Well, you've got to learn sometime, so just jump in and go for it", or "Well, if you can't get it, then Repainting (or Scenery Design) is just not for you... sorry".

Quite demoralizing, especially when searching for an answer to a basic issue, and the post languishes for days in the Forum without a reply, or even any views of the post. Or, after days of hard work your 'new' repaint is uploaded, and all of the Comments end up being of the 'Did you finger paint that one" or 'you're missing x in the Texture' without offering a solution to correct the mistake.

So, I just keep using what I have for FS 9. Searching the File Libraries, making do with what's out there, and continuing to have fun as best I can.

A two way, friendly and informational stream is what's needed to keep the FS 9 fires burning.

Yes, we need more creators, compilers and designers in the fold. At the same time, more experienced creators might want to try and pass on what they've learned in an informative way; tutorials, glossaries... anything that would help the novice proceed.

I'm not trying to rub anyone the wrong way, insult or complain. I'm just sharing personal observations that I have noticed in my 'short' time using FlightSim and as part of the many FS Forums out there.

View attachment 91580
Click to expand...

Viper....
For painting, Go check out the A2A Forums on painting......You will find an explanation of layers, Alpha_Channels, etc.... They also explain what each one does to the paint....These are for FSX but work when painting FS9 as well......
I knew nothing about painting aircraft until I tried working with the A2A WOP3 Mustang.....Now after a short 6 months of painting, I am creating custom paints for their mustang, Cera sims Bell222 and 212, as well as default aircraft.....
Plus everyone their is very helpful in helping you get through the different stages of painting.....
 
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