Mustangs are go!

So much for waiting for new repaints for Christmas. :banghead:

And its too late to amend my letter to Santa Clause. :santahat:

WAIT. That's not Santa. Santa's not GREEN.

--WH
 
:jump: Love this aircraft!!!
But... I'm tired of bouncing down the runway on landing. I've been using 26"-28" of manifold at what RPM ?
 
It's about the landing speed and flaring just as the right time and three pointing. I suggest watching some video of real 51's landing; they almost always bounce. If you walk away it was a good landing...........:wiggle:
 
If the flight dynamics of the A2A and Warbirdsim Mustangs are accurate they don't bleed energy very rapidly on finals so I've seen many real ones landed 2-point and then allowed to settle during the landing run. I think the manuals recommend 3000 rpm during a landing in case of a need for a go-around, but the Merlin is quite powerful enough to hoist the aircraft into the air from 2400. But as MudMarine says it's all a matter of the correct speed for the weight over the fence and timing the flare.

DaveQ
 
Curtis P40:

Learning to fly "tail draggers" can be challenging but yet fun!! I compare it to learning how to drive on a standard versus an automatic..

The ideal situation when "3 pointing" is to rotate into the 3 point attitude as close to the ground as possible and to touch down at about the same time the "stall warning" goes off. Then you know the airplane is done flying and your "roll out" won't be too long!! The draw back is: as you rotate into that 3 point attitude, you will loose "rudder control" (especially the bigger tail draggers you fly) when the rudder gets behind the fuselage.

As indicated by others, most pilots tend to "wheel" land them so as to allow them to get established on the ground before the tail comes down and they loose the rudder. With wheel landings, your basically flying the airplane to the ground since you want to carry a little more speed than 3-pointing them.

A good habit I was taught especially when flying "tail draggers" was to fly with the "balls" of your feet on the bottom of the pedals. That way you won't have the tendency to jam the brakes and nose over!!!!! Another words, work the rudder until such time as you need the brakes to maintain directional control..

As a general rule on landing, any aircraft that had a "constant speed prop" we where taught to bring the prop to full RPM on final for the sole purpose of the possibility of a "go-a-round". As far as your question on how many "inches" to maintain on final tho, hard to say. When I learned how to fly, there was no such thing as "powered approaches"!! I guess whatever it takes to maintain an airspeed of about 10 to 15% above your stall speed or whatever is comfortable to you.

Remember however, the more speed you carry, the more "floating" you'll do - and like doing take-off's, runway behind you will hurt you more often than not!!!

For me over the years, when the airport traffic wasn't too bad (early morning or early evening) I would go out and shoot take-offs and landings for hours - different approaches, different speeds, different landings etc. Just getting to know the airplane....

Hope some of this helps..

Bill
 
Hi guys, i got the fighter leader pack for xmas yesterday and cant work out how to drop the drop tanks? just wondering how its done. Ive tried usual key commands and cant move the release/bomb/payload lever.

Thanks
 
Seby, you gotta do it from inside the VC. Reach over to the left bottom of the front panel and arm them with the toggle switches, and then use the handle next to them to drop them. Just be sure you've switched to internal fuel before you let 'em go, though, or you'll promptly hear your Merlin sputter in protest....
 
AH! thanks so much. Just done about half an hour flying in it, fantastic. look forward to trying her out "clean" in a second:D
 
Glad you got it worked out, seby. :medals:You will also fall in love with Bomber's magical creation, I am sure.:applause::ernae::jump:
 
Hey Seby, first you must 'activate' the system by clicking on any one of the bomb arming switches on the lower left side of the instrument panel. Then click on the release lever to release the tanks (an upcoming release will be featuring 500 ‘pounders’ instead). In proper order, according to the manual, you will then need to de-activate the system by clicking on the arming switches first, and then clicking the release lever for it to go back to its safe position.

To prevent bouncing, your descent rate should not be too high - when you flare and touch down, you want your descent rate to be as minimal a possible. Like most tail-draggers, you will also need to push in some forward pressure to counter the tendency to jump back in the air, as soon as the main wheels touch. During WWII, the common landing practice taught in the Mustang was to three-point it on, and I find it the nicest method, because you are closer to stall speed, and the aircraft is more prone to stick on the ground. Main-wheel landings were only used if more visability was needed. Most pilots today land on the main wheels, but keep the tail low, so it is almost half-way between a main-wheel landing and a three-point landing.

I just got done reading an article in Warbird Digest about the owner and pilot of the P-51D "Millie G". In it he describes that throughout learning to fly the Mustang, he bounced it on a number of occasions. I recently watched the old P-51B training film again the other day as well, and there was some fairly good discussion within it about what to do if the aircraft bounces on landing as well - though pretty much the only response to it was that if the bounce is high enough, to continue to fly away by smoothly inputting power until you have climb power, raise the gear, and then the flaps, and try again. From these accounts, and more, I think it is safe to say that the Mustang is quite prone to bouncing if the proper technique is not taken when landing. It comes with time, adjusting what you are used to, to what is necessary in this aircraft.

There are also mixed fealings about what RPM setting to use on landing. I found that the original manual states 3000 RPM for landing, and most of the pilots who learned to fly the Mustang during and just after WWII tend to obey by this. Yet current Mustang instructors, more often than not, teach their student pilots to land with the RPM set at 2700. The reason for this, is that if in a go-around situation, you have less forces acting against you with a lower RPM setting, making it a little easier to conduct a go-around, which is done by using climb power, not take-off power.

Edit: Posted way too late...I'm glad it worked out for you Seby! :)
 
I think it's such a tribute to the accuracy of Bomber's P-51 (and, dare I say it the A2A -D) that we're sitting here conducting a serious and clearly knowledgeable conversation about the handling characteristics of the Mustang when I doubt any of us have or will ever solo in one for real.

But to continue the conversation, was there not a fatality in a Mustang a couple of years ago in which someone tried to apply full power at 3000rpm for a go-around and torque-rolled it into the ground? Since when the advice has always been not to use 3000rpm on finals as I understand it. Sorry can't remember the reference.

DaveQ
 
DaveQ:

I have been very fortunate in my aviation career to not only ride in one many many times over the years (my brother owned one) but to fly one (Stallion 51 when Leo's former partner bought it) and I also learned how to fly in a "tail dragger".

As with all "tail draggers" you want to be careful when applying power in certain situations keeping in mind the more horse power you have, the more torque there is. I would have to say that most pilots - especially when civilians started buying the warbirds after the war - had a tendency to "jam" the throttle forward rather than ease it forward such as in a go-a-round. Thus as stated earlier, they would "screw" themselves into the ground...

Another issue that applies to the Mustang (and I'm sure others) is what they call a "duster" turn. Low speed, sharp turn!!! She will snap over into a spin and if my memory serves me, you need lots and lots and lots of altitude to recover.

The key in any airplane (as I was taught) is never get "behind" the aircraft so to speak. And of course don't go beyond your abilities either... For the most part, you can add throttle at a pretty good clip as long as you stay ahead of it.

What opens the door to all these critical situations we're discussing is your speed on final etc. The slower the speed, the more the door opens!!!!

Hope this helps

Bill

 
Thanks for all the input. Way back when I was 17, I learned to fly in a PA-140. After getting my Private, I did most of my my flying in a Civil Air Patrol Super Cub (@ $10.00 a hour). To me, flying a "tail dragger" was easier than the 140. Maybe it was just the stick thing between your legs. Last July I got the chance to fly in the Collings P-51c, man what a ride! I also got to log alittle stick time. No takeoffs or landings, can't see anything to the front from the back seat. I told myself before hand to make small inputs, roll was just fine, but pitch, just the smallest of movement and you were +/- 500' something you felt in your stomach, as I roller coasted across the sky. I tried to keep up on landing, but as Bill said I think I got to far behind, I never even seen the runway untill we crossed the theshold. Will Whiteside, the pilot, didn't bounce, just smoooooth. THANK YOU, Warbirdsim, for great and demanding aircraft to fly, from the front seat.
Curt
 
What is up with the Pitot Heat switch? I know that the animation does'nt work, but even when I click it, it still shows that it's off. Not a good thing when flying in Michigan Winters:icon_lol:

BTW: Repaint fix, you need an African-American pilot in the Macon Belle Repaint. just a head's up.
 
Nightshade, I believe WBS is aware of it (the pitot heat switch), and they are going to correct it in the near future.
 
WND said:

Another issue that applies to the Mustang (and I'm sure others) is what they call a "duster" turn. Low speed, sharp turn!!! She will snap over into a spin and if my memory serves me, you need lots and lots and lots of altitude to recover.

The key in any airplane (as I was taught) is never get "behind" the aircraft so to speak. And of course don't go beyond your abilities either... For the most part, you can add throttle at a pretty good clip as long as you stay ahead of it.

What opens the door to all these critical situations we're discussing is your speed on final etc. The slower the speed, the more the door opens!!!!
Click to expand...

The Mustang was/is much more prone to 'duster' spins than most (the Spitfire rarely does it). Any attempt to reef her hard at any speed results in an aerodynamic stall and she'll readily depart on you. It's the same with fast cars - always stay in control and don't exceed your or the car's limits. I drive a BMW M3 and love driving very fast round England's twisty roads (traffic permitting) but on the limit you're a heartbeat from disaster.

Many thanks for your insights Bill.

DaveQ
 
nightshade said:
What is up with the Pitot Heat switch? I know that the animation does'nt work, but even when I click it, it still shows that it's off. Not a good thing when flying in Michigan Winters:icon_lol:

BTW: Repaint fix, you need an African-American pilot in the Macon Belle Repaint. just a head's up.
Click to expand...

Does it have these lines in cfg?

//<<<<<<================================================================================================================>>>>>>

[Pitot_Static]
Vertical_Speed_Time_Constant = 2.000000 ; Increasing this value will cause a more instantaneous reaction in the VSI
Pitot_Heat = 1.000000

//<<<<<<================================================================================================================>>>>>>


the VSTM may be a different number but the other one is the one to look for, I'm still waiting for fsx to arrive...
 
Curtis:

I can remember the first time I took instrument flying lesson's. My instructor covered up all those nice instruments I just got done buying and putting in and left me with needle / ball, airspeed and altimeter and compass!! Then he said, "now lets turn here and lets turn there and go here etc etc.. Talk about flying by the seat of your pants!!!!! :icon_lol:

Dave and Bomber:

I got thinking last night about the RPM issue. Since we all develope our own habits / ways of doing things (some good, some ok and some we won't talk about), I personally use the full RPM scenario.

I was taught to do that because you wanted to have the maximum amount of bite just in case you needed it (for a go-a-round or whatever) and because on a non turbo / non supercharged engine if you needed to add power in a hurry and the inches (MP) exceeded the rpm, you could end up with some serious engine damage.

Well, after 40+ years, that habit for me would be kinda hard to break plus it would elimate the possibility (for me anyways) of someday jumping into an aircraft with a "normal" engine and forgetting that it is normal!!

Again, just a personal note...

Bill



 
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