The OFF DiD Standard.

Hang on. Padlock is not allowed? It certainly gives you an indication of altitude of objects in TAC. Without padlock I don't have a chance since I don't have TIR. and padlock is pretty useless in anything but one on one dogfights.

Also, I would recommend refraining from using the term "cheat" for any setting available in Workshops. "Not allowed in DiD" is more of a mouthful but more correct to me. Anyone has a right to play the game the way they see fit, if they want to go DiD then they have to conform to the rules but playing outside of DiD is never "cheating".

Oh hell. I'm getting TIR.
 
Any viewing system is fair, seeing as how none of them can be as good as TiR

Geier, Padlock IS allowed, see posts #37 and #38. (Unless Siggi changed his mind further down the thread and I missed it.)
 
Padlock is allowed. Any viewing option lesser than TiR is allowed. Padlock allows one to lock onto a target one cannot necessarily see but it's a dire bloody liability other than that (limits SA considerably). Personally I would not fly any sim without TiR, I'd last about five minutes.

"Cheat" is just a word, it doesn't have to carry negative connotations by default. Shall we use the word "crib" instead? As in "crib notes", a benign and permissable form of cheating. :)

"Ay oop, t' lad's cribbin' tru t' wings like."
 
IF it were possible to reduce label-text to an asterix it wouldn't be SUCH an issue, that asterix could be simulating the target's natural luminosity.

I suspect the asterisk thing would be easily do-able, coding-wise. Perhaps even with an option in Workshop: "Full Labels" and "Asterisk Label Only".
 
I suspect the asterisk thing would be easily do-able, coding-wise. Perhaps even with an option in Workshop: "Full Labels" and "Asterisk Label Only".

I had a look in the files already. I think the labelling code draws from all the a/c names, so each and every one of them would have to have a seperate name consisting of an identifier plus the asterix, and then coded to display only the asterix. A bit much to ask of the developers just for a small minority of people who want to play DiD.

A much better solution would be to have a/c flash at random intervals, to simulate light reflecting from various angles, observable from a good few miles. I have no idea if the engine allows that though.

Then the TAC could be done away with too, for a wholly more realistic option.
 
I agree, Labels are too muc, but

as limitations of Video Cards and Processors, and etc, it is reasonable that they be part of the scenario, especially for those just starting out, who haven't got command of their aircraft yet, let alone sorting out enemy and friendly aircraft.

The TAC is most reasonable at the 1 NM setting, and even with TIR, is a necessity, or so I believe.

Great topic.

Cheers,

british_eh
 
Modified to take account of new realism settings, death in Workshop must now be HARD (dead is dead).

The OFF DiD Standard.
This is intended for the added enjoyment of those vPilots who choose to make the OFF experience as realistic as it can be. "Realistic experience", in this case, will be my interpretation of it, as I apply that to the standard I created many years ago for RB2-3D, a number of other sims subsequently and a one-year+ online war...DiD (Dead is Dead).

Some of the settings are open to debate. Mostly ones I've had in my own mind. Others may have differing opinions on them, and I'm open to consideration of those, but they will most likely make no way. This is not an expression of contempt, just that experience has shown that 'Rule by Commitee' doesn't work for DiD.

DiD is also not intended to express contempt for those who play the sim by a 'lesser' standard. People play the game in whatever way they like, for whatever reasons they like. And their reasons are entirely valid for their own private purposes. But (BUT), if one wishes to express one's prowess in the public arena (for fun, ego, bragging-rights, light-hearted competitiveness etc) one should rightly be held to a common standard, otherwise the expression has no substantive meaning or value. DiD is intended to provide that standard, to put all those of a like mind on a level playing field as it were.

So...OFF DiD:

Workshop:

Auto Mixture: Users' choice. Not all a/c of this period had a manual control, it doesn't significantly affect the player's ability to kill and with that in mind not all players can or need to be arsed with it. If you choose to enable it you are DiD+, but it's a very tiny weeny little plus.

Auto Rudder: Users' choice. It should be OFF, but maybe you have no pedals and your stick doesn't twist. In fact, with it ON you suffer a disadvantage in combat.

Invincible: OFF.
Unlim Weapons: OFF.
Unlim Fuel: OFF.
Sun Glare: ON.
G-Effects: ON.
A/C Stress: ON.
Force-feedback: Users' choice.
Flight Model: Realistic.
Weapon Effectiveness: Realistic.
Claims: Normal.
Ground Fire: Normal.
Death: Hard (Dead is Dead).
Main Guns: Normal.

Rear Guns: Wide. The choice here is between ALL gunners having, potentially, preternatural abilities vs ALL gunners having generally average abilities. I've been very nicely plastered under wide, by one to three 2-seater gunners I tried to approach, so it does NOT make 2-seaters a turkey-shoot.

Wind effects: ON.
Weather Mode: Historical.
Weather Dynamics: Dynamic.
Campaign Mission Frequency: Historical.
A/C Spawn Control: OFF Campaign.

Parameter Editor Panel in CFS3 Config (via button in Workshop).

All settings in there are at users' choice EXCEPT:

Targetting Cone: Disabled.
HUD: Disabled.
Simulation Warnings: Disabled.
Time Compression: Disabled.
Advisor Messages: Disabled.
Chat: Disabled.

In-Game Functions:

TAC: Allowed. Rule: It must be switched OFF as soon as a/c spotted on it turn to red, irrespective of whether or not you have visually acquired them. It must not be turned on again until you are 100% sure combat has ceased and you are unlikely to be re-engaged by those same enemy a/c.

Labels: Not allowed.

MAP: Allowed. The game map, real maps and the landscape over which you fly are not sufficiently corrobative of one another to make real navigation more than an unrealistically difficult and hazardous chore.

Auto-Pilot: Allowed. It's a straight & level device, use of it will put you at a disadvantage in fact.

Visual Zoom: Allowed, it's binoculars.

Trim: Allowed. Rule. Only at the very beginning of a flight (on the runway) and not to be touched thereafter. It's use simulates a pilot and his fitters setting up his a/c on the ground to his liking. Fly your a/c in QC, find out how many clicks of each put your plane as you like it, then apply those same clicks to your a/c on the runway in campaign before each flight.

Real Time: All campaign missions must be flown in real time. To do otherwise gives a pilot an unrealistic advantage in terms of fatigue and attentiveness thereof. It also de-values the stock you invest in your character, which itself tends to lead to unrealistic behaviour in combat, which can skew combat-results.

External Views: Not allowed, except to take screenies while paused. All flying and fighting must take place while in the cockpit with cockpit visible.

That's it. If I've missed anything please advise.

Oh yes...resurrecting your campaign character: Allowed, but only under the most STRINGENT of circumstances. If your character dies as a result of something OUTSIDE of the game's natural environment (major FPS lock-up/stutter/freeze, kids jumping into your lap, wife/GF clapping you upside of the head, you get the picture...) feel free to make things right. You'll know if you've done a dirty and your achievements will be tainted in your own mind as a result, so don't go there.

That's the DiD standard, open to modification for a very limited time subject to persuasive proposals. But please don't hold your breath (for anyone who gives a hoot). If you wish to be regarded by it you are on your honour to observe it faithfully and may indicate your desire to such end by the inclusion of the acronym "DiD" anywhere you bally well please.

I'll finish with the usual elitist bit..."DiD, sorts the men from the boys, the wheat from the chaff, the real vAces from the arcade wannabes!" :applause:
 
Siggi- Just curious, I flew RB for years, SP & MP. In MP if you flew, what was your screen name..I don't recall a Siggi:ernae:

Regards,
Royce
 
A fun memory that might have some bearing, or not, on your rules. Way back in the day when RB3D mp first took off there was a pretty amazing squad called KA7. As far as I remember they pretty much ruled most servers for a while before most of the original members quit.

Anyway, as I was flying a lot with one of the members he showed me one of their secrets. They flew in external rear view, all the time. From what I can see in your rules there are no rules about using external views which, among other things, lets you ID anything you have padlocked and lets you fly without a cockpit (F3). Using an external rear view, like KA7 did, gives you a great big fov and once you figure it out you can shoot well from it too. I never got the hang of it and prefered the cockpit views anyway but those guys were lethal in the admittedly exploitable and arcadey RB FM. So if you wanna go competitive I would, if possible, limit external views to zilch.

Zoikes! Eh, I trust no one here from the original KA7 ...
 
A fun memory that might have some bearing, or not, on your rules. Way back in the day when RB3D mp first took off there was a pretty amazing squad called KA7. As far as I remember they pretty much ruled most servers for a while before most of the original members quit.

Anyway, as I was flying a lot with one of the members he showed me one of their secrets. They flew in external rear view, all the time. From what I can see in your rules there are no rules about using external views which, among other things, lets you ID anything you have padlocked and lets you fly without a cockpit (F3). Using an external rear view, like KA7 did, gives you a great big fov and once you figure it out you can shoot well from it too. I never got the hang of it and prefered the cockpit views anyway but those guys were lethal in the admittedly exploitable and arcadey RB FM. So if you wanna go competitive I would, if possible, limit external views to zilch.

Zoikes! Eh, I trust no one here from the original KA7 ...

I guess I just took that for granted. Thanks, I'll add it PDQ. :)
 
Siggi- Just curious, I flew RB for years, SP & MP. In MP if you flew, what was your screen name..I don't recall a Siggi:ernae:

Regards,
Royce

I'm damned if I can remember, but I don't think it would have been other than my name. I used to fly in some kind of formal war (online), I don't remember it's name but I seem to remember it was odd-sounding.
 
Ok I am game but the real time will exclude 80% of everyone that plays the game. I can't imagine that many people with hours on end to fly a 3 hour mission .

Siggi please reconsider warp.
 
Ok I am game but the real time will exclude 80% of everyone that plays the game. I can't imagine that many people with hours on end to fly a 3 hour mission .

Siggi please reconsider warp.

There are a lot of talented darts players out there that can't play league due to real-job commitments. Them's just the breaks unfortunately.

A standard is a standard, and once one starts watering it down to take account of special needs, no matter how legitimate, it's not a standard anymore.

I'm not sure about that "3 hour" thing either. I select alternative flight if the one given is ridiculously long, and most times it's curtailed anyway when we get into a fight and all the ammo gets used up. Straight back to base at that point. Medium length ones I tend to keep, otherwise the 'alternative flight' gets a bit gamey. A significant number of my flights last no longer than around half an hour. Before I started using the TAC I'd see no action and even then 95 minutes was the max I can remember.

I suspect people using warp miss a lot of target opportunities, even with the TAC up. Fly real time and it's rare not to come across something within about 20 to 30 minutes. Get stuck in, shoot off most of the ammo, back home for kippers, just like the real chaps. :)
 
One point, at the start of this thread Death was by Dice Doll, now it's Dead Is Dead. I'm fine if that's the consensus, but it wasn't mentioned, unless I missed it. Or was it incorrectly stated at the start?

For preference, I'd prefer Death By Dice Roll, there were many miraculous escapes in WW1, sliding down ballon cables, hanging upside down from your Lewis drum, falling several thousand feet, crashing through a nunnery roof and landing on a Nun's bed etc. (although W. E. Johns may have made that last one up).

Clarification?
 
I agree with the die roll. Since in the other direction a simple bad landing could break your neck. Fortune is a fickle mistress.

Not that it matters terribly. Although I have had a few pilots die stupidly, they still stayed dead.

I know of the balloon line from Johns (i.e one of his forwards to Biggles), and the Lewis gun was Louis Strange; who found himself in a nun's bed?
 
One point, at the start of this thread Death was by Dice Doll, now it's Dead Is Dead. I'm fine if that's the consensus, but it wasn't mentioned, unless I missed it. Or was it incorrectly stated at the start?

For preference, I'd prefer Death By Dice Roll, there were many miraculous escapes in WW1, sliding down ballon cables, hanging upside down from your Lewis drum, falling several thousand feet, crashing through a nunnery roof and landing on a Nun's bed etc. (although W. E. Johns may have made that last one up).

Clarification?

Well, it's now a 40% realism debit in the Workshop if you have death by die roll. And to be honest some of the escapes I've had have been absurd beyond credulity. Nose diving into the ground from 1000ft at full speed and 17 days in hospital?

I left it on die-roll originally because I believed the dead is dead setting (on hard) in Workshop meant ANY crash was instant dead, but I've since read that one can still survive a crash, just a lot more realistically.
 
Siggi I didn't see if you are allowing a padlock view. I don't use it as it is a big cheat that allows you to track aircraft, even in your blind spots. Your call

I think this is a good standard for the fairly serious player. Some of us go beyond the standards given above and fly what might be called 'iron man' rules, but I think we are a very small minority of nut-jobs, heh-heh. For the true die-hards out there, try no TAC, and try paper maps with no in-game map allowed unless you are on the ground (simulates landing to ask for directions). Thats the full experience, but I will say it is not easy and I understand that most people aren't going to take it this far.

Regarding 'warp' or any other settings...guys, just do whatever gives you the most enjoyment. Nobody has to follow anyone elses suggestions of how to recreate the WW1 experience. Make up your own standard and call it "DiD-Warp"? No biggie.
 
Well, it's now a 40% realism debit in the Workshop if you have death by die roll. And to be honest some of the escapes I've had have been absurd beyond credulity. Nose diving into the ground from 1000ft at full speed and 17 days in hospital?

I left it on die-roll originally because I believed the dead is dead setting (on hard) in Workshop meant ANY crash was instant dead, but I've since read that one can still survive a crash, just a lot more realistically.

Ah, cool. Didn't realised it had changed under 1.25. Confess I haven't played since I D/L'd it.
 
The padlock is allowed because compared to TiR it's a liability. Yes, it allows tracking of a target even when the target is out of direct view, but it also locks one's view, which cripples SA. To regain SA one has to un-padlock and use the hat-switch to look behind, then try to re-padlock the target. Meanwhile the chap with TiR is doing all that effortlessly.

DiD is about making the experience as realistic as possible, not as hard as possible. And in some cases that means compromising, due to specific limitations of a specific sim.

Some DiD pilots have it easier than other DiD pilots, due to the advantages of certain items of hardware. In my opinion those lacking certain items already have it hard enough, without making it harder for them by disallowing what few options they have left, and certainly not if it makes it far harder for them than would be realistic. Eg, "You have no TiR, but you're also not allowed to use padlock. Hat-switch views only, you cripple-necked pilot you!"

Personally I just wouldn't play this without TiR.

77Scout, you are absolutely right, everyone plays the game as they see fit, there is no requirement to play to a given standard. But for those who wish to do it DiD is a convenient hook. For those who wish it harder, their achievements would certainly be worthy of greater respect. Anyone who can eschew the map and TAC, and STILL survive and STILL rack up kills...wow! In their signature: "DiD plus no TAC and real maps". Of course, there's nothing stopping a pilot from simply taking off, flying wherever the hell he pleases and landing at whatever freindly field he likes. No map of ANY kind needed then. But not very realistic. He could also fly on only clear days, in which case the TAC might not be required to aid sight. I've now spotted a/c out at three miles (visually acquired them when the TAC showed them at that distance). But for those pilots who lack a hi-rez monitor, and fly in whatever weather is given, the game could become extremely boring and frustrating. Before I used the TAC I flew twelve straight missions without seeing a single hun plane, and I DO have a hi-rez monitor. In general I believe it is far harder to spot planes at a distance in the sim than it is in real life. The TAC, while imperfect, does restore that balance somewhat.

The warp is beyond being an issue, it absolutely destroys even a semblance of reality, and not even for any legitimate in-game consideration. It's purely for real-world considerations (lack of time). But everyone has the chance, at least once a week, to fly a real-time mission. That can be on their DiD pilot. Use another for general purposes. Best of both worlds then. :)
 
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